15-07-2003 15:31									#181
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither And you speak for all the Ukrainians, Uzbeks, Georgians, and assorted others who could not waste a minute to be rid of your beloved system? btw, that system carried off far more of them than of Russians. You expect they would thank you for it?

Yeah, right Russians suffered the most of all other peoples during Stalin's rule. Russians were majority of SU population and majority among Stalin's victims.
As for your numbers 50 millions it's more than 1/4 of population of USSR before the war. In accordance with your logic every fourth citizen of SU including childrens and elders was slain during Stalin's times. Great logic.

	15-07-2003 15:34									#182
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And don't forget to ask Native Americans what they think about your beloved democracy. And how much they gratefull to your belowed system for their complete extermination.

	15-07-2003 15:36									#183
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And also you may ask Americans with Japanese origins how much they gratefull that your belowed sytem put them into concentration camps during WW2.

	15-07-2003 15:39									#184
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"We are holier than you are, red ass evil motherf*ckers...blah...blah...blah...we never invade anyone, (Vietnam, Iraq, Yugosalvia, etc) and never killed anyone (2 millions in Vietnam, hell knows how many Iraqis, Yugosalvians, and Native Americans at the first place)...blah...blah...blah"
Have a nice day.

	15-07-2003 17:08									#185
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quote: Originally posted by Serb As for your numbers 50 millions it's more than 1/4 of population of USSR before the war. In accordance with your logic every fourth citizen of SU including childrens and elders was slain during Stalin's times. Great logic.

We can start with the 7-10 million dead Ukrainians from the man made famine there and work up if you really want to be anal about it.

	15-07-2003 17:10									#186
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How about comparing the censun numbers from the various years? I mean the real ones. those are public now.

	15-07-2003 17:10									#187
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DP.

	15-07-2003 17:41									#188
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc We can start with the 7-10 million dead Ukrainians from the man made famine there and work up if you really want to be anal about it.

Ok. I guess 10 millions it's about half of entire population of Ukraine in 20s.
So in accordance with you, almost every second Ukranian including children and elders was slain, right?

	15-07-2003 17:52									#189
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quote: Originally posted by Serb So in accordance with you, almost every second Ukranian including children and elders was slain, right?

No. Acording to me 7-10 million dead Ukrainians starved to death.

	15-07-2003 18:04									#190
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Who cares about your IMHO? In accordance with me 30-50 millions of Native Americans died because of Americans.
Both statements are baseless.

	15-07-2003 18:07									#191
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quote: Originally posted by Serb Who cares about your IMHO?

You. Otherwise you wouldn't have asked.

quote: Both statements are baseless.

The difference between the 2 statements is that mine is backed up by historical evidence.

	15-07-2003 18:17									#192
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quote: Originally posted by Serb And also you may ask Americans with Japanese origins how much they gratefull that your belowed sytem put them into concentration camps during WW2.

at least they did not kill them , ........

	15-07-2003 18:18									#193
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quote: Originally posted by Serb Who cares about your IMHO? In accordance with me 30-50 millions of Native Americans died because of Americans. Both statements are baseless.

there where not even 30 to 50 million to kill , .......

	15-07-2003 18:21									#194
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quote: Originally posted by panag there where not even 30 to 50 million to kill , .......

Possibly in Mexico, but then it falls on the Spanish, not us Gringos.


Don't worry, it won't be a Serb debate until Serb brings out his Random Picture of Russian Military Might(tm)

	16-07-2003 09:23									#195
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quote: Originally posted by Serb And also you may ask Americans with Japanese origins how much they gratefull that your belowed sytem put them into concentration camps during WW2.

concentration camps is a harsh word, they were more like containment camps... wrong, no matter what, but the people WERE properly fed and housed. Can you say the same of the soviets purged by stalin?

native americans... not to justify their near extermination, were foreigners to America... the American democracy kiled them because at the time they were 'enemies' and we were invading them. This is much differnt from the soviet union killing its own people, being killed by a system they lived under.... the US has never slaughtered its own citizens on a mass scale (except perhaps the salem witch trials or somethn like that, but regaurdless, nothing like the SU)

	16-07-2003 10:16									#196
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quote: Originally posted by Serb And don't forget to ask Native Americans what they think about your beloved democracy. And how much they gratefull to your belowed system for their complete extermination.

We like it just fine, thanks!

	16-07-2003 10:17									#197
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BTW Serb, why are you talking about American problems? nye and zylka are C A N A D I A N.

	16-07-2003 10:18									#198
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk BTW Serb, why are you talking about American problems? nye and zylka are C A N A D I A N.

and canadians hate americans too if they are siding with us on this one... sheesh... the soviet union must have really been bad

	16-07-2003 10:19									#199
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk We like it just fine, thanks!

your indian? what tribe?

	16-07-2003 10:28									#200
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Cherokee, one eighth.

	17-07-2003 07:24									#201
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc The difference between the 2 statements is that mine is backed up by historical evidence.

Prove it. What evidence are you talking about. Give me exact number, because your 10 millions is the same bs number as my 50 millions.

	17-07-2003 07:26									#202
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quote: Originally posted by panag at least they did not kill them , ........

Do you have any idea about suicide rate among prisoners of American concentration camps? I guess not, I bet you think those people felt like they were on vacation.

	17-07-2003 07:27									#203
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quote: Originally posted by panag there where not even 30 to 50 million to kill , .......

The claim that Soviet exterminated every second Ukranian is BS as well.

	17-07-2003 07:49									#204
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quote: Originally posted by Kramerman concentration camps is a harsh word, they were more like containment camps... wrong, no matter what, but the people WERE properly fed and housed. Can you say the same of the soviets purged by stalin? native americans... not to justify their near extermination, were foreigners to America... the American democracy kiled them because at the time they were 'enemies' and we were invading them. This is much differnt from the soviet union killing its own people, being killed by a system they lived under.... the US has never slaughtered its own citizens on a mass scale (except perhaps the salem witch trials or somethn like that, but regaurdless, nothing like the SU)

I like American aproach. It's just great.
When America kill someone it's OK, because those bastards are enemies of Americans. When Soviets (Soviets, even not Russians) kill someone, Soviets are evil motherf*ckers and it doesn't really matters that Soviets considered their victims as enemies too.
For Stalin his victims were enemies also, the enemies of system he lived under. You said that US never slaughtered its own citizens on a mass scale, what about American civil war? Wasn't it a mass scale slaughter?
You forget that there was a civil war in Russia after the revolution and after civil war society was still split. On one side were supporters of new Soviet system, on the other side were their former enemies who lost civil war. The guys who lost civil war still were hostile to new Soviet society and still tried their best to somehow hurt the Soviets. And for Soviets they weren't part of thier Soviet system, they were enemies. Just like Native Americans were enemies for Americans.

	17-07-2003 07:52									#205
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quote: Originally posted by Lonestar Don't worry, it won't be a Serb debate until Serb brings out his Random Picture of Russian Military Might(tm)

I can post a couple of pictures, if you really wish. Hmmm...wait a minute, this thread is suppose to be about American military might.

	17-07-2003 07:56									#206
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk We like it just fine, thanks!

quote: Cherokee, one eighth.

I am Ukranian, one eighth, more probably more than one eight. And I liked to live under Soviet system and regret that Soviet Union collapsed. Does it mean that number of Ukranian killed during Stalin's times agreed with me? Does it mean that much greater number of exterminated Native Americans killed during conquest of America agreed with you?

	17-07-2003 07:58									#207
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quote: Originally posted by Serb Prove it. What evidence are you talking about. Give me exact number,

Why don't you give me the number batted around by the Stalin apologists (since I assume that's the one you believe) and we'll work from there.

	17-07-2003 07:58									#208
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk BTW Serb, why are you talking about American problems? nye and zylka are C A N A D I A N.

Oh, excuse me, I forget that Native Americans never populated territory of modern Canada and that Canadians never particpated in extermination of Native Americans.

	17-07-2003 08:00									#209
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Why don't you give me the number batted around by the Stalin apologists (since I assume that's the one you believe) and we'll work from there.

Age before beauty.

	17-07-2003 08:05									#210
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I'm actually interested in 2 things: 1) Do you even believe that the Soviets engineered the Ukrainian famine and 2) what you believe the casualties were if you do think they engineered it. Your answers to those two questions will determin if we can have a productive discussion on the topic.