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Cort Haus
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London
Apr 2002
time: 05:29
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Hello Cort Haus,
Considering Invention, and Gunpowder, perhaps a deal ran out, allowing someone to sell/gift it. Or, as you suspect, someone just felt like aiding the primates. The second possibility does seem more likely. Either way, we can't undo it, and - fortunately - it came too late to save Monkey. Keeping the anger for later seems like a good idea, though. 
As you know, we have 3 Settlers going along wth our force. We need more cities badly, but are reluctant to start claiming the former Monkey lands. First of all, a precise plan hasn't been worked out with you on how this should proceed. Second, although Monkey will probably turtle up somewhere, we think they might be trying to pull us into a trap. If they'd suscceed in taking a city, that could make our citizens very angry (War Weariness big time), perhaps even forcing us to sign peace. They didn't show us a big army yet, so the decision where to go is tricky.
It seems like a good idea to block Monkey from trades and foreign help. I think we will be able to send a Galley to aid. After we've built one, that is. 
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Cake for us, Death for Monkey
Modo
P.s. The Quest for the Holy Grail continues.
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Cort Haus
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London
Apr 2002
time: 05:29
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Greetings, gallant ally!
We would like to inform you that we plan to begin the repopulation of the former Monkey lands soon, as per our pre-war agreement. The first wave of cities are planned for 144, 1112, and 223 of Siege Perilous. Barkeeps and hookers in SP are going to be sad to see the settlers go, but the government feels that enough of a frontier buffer exists to avoid a Monkey counterattack on the new cities.
Before they actually make the move out of SP, though, we would like to get your input on whether or not you share our views regarding the safety of starting the repopulation. We would also like to verify that we do, in fact, remember the arrangement properly, as quite a bit of time has passed since it was made. Our understanding is, basically, that you got the SW peninsula unimpeded and we get the Monkey lands. If this is inaccurate, please let me know.
Thank you, and more cake for us and more death for Monkey,
Solomwi
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Yes, friends, Monkeyland is yours to settle as per our pre-war agreement 
As for fearing a Monkey attack - I don't know what they'd do, but they can't do much while we have their forces pressed back in the south.
Regards,
Cort
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Cort Haus
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London
Apr 2002
time: 05:29
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Hello Cake or Death
We now know for sure, that the western peninsula is Monkey-free. We will proceed to Whale song.
Last turn we made an Embassy in the Latin Lover capital. The information about their status will be sent to you soon.
As the time seems right, we decided to try and get a wonder. A Palace prebuild is being made as we speak.
The new southern lands will need to be improved, so our Workers are beginning to walk south through your territory. If they should take a specific route, please tell us which one. Settlers will follow later.
Another issue concerning the south is your city of Tuskany. It seems the place is pretty awkward, messing up any sensible city patterns there. Would it be possible fo you to (re)move this city at some point (i.e. when our Settlers are ready to claim the area)?
There is a place on our border, which is unclaimed, and nobody here seems to know the reason. We tried looking in our diplomatic archives, but there is no info why no city has been built south of Witch Village. Do you know anything about it? Would it be bad, if we placed a city at Witch Village 223, or at Witch Village 233?
Last but not least, the Holy Grail (the real one) has been found, as you know from the diplomacy last turn. We will present it to the rest of the world as soon as we get Astronomy.
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Cake for us, Death to the primates!
Modo
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Cort Haus
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London
Apr 2002
time: 05:29
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Hail Pythons!
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Last turn we made an Embassy in the Latin Lover capital. The information about their status will be sent to you soon.
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Good timing! LL just declared war on CoD and Python, it seems. I believe it to be to stop us trading with their continent, including their enemies, who probably have Astro. We've just got a nice hit of war joy, which our heavily-stretched economy can certainly appreciate. I doubt they are about to invade, what with Tabemono chewing them up. 
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As the time seems right, we decided to try and get a wonder. A Palace prebuild is being made as we speak.
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 Which one? I was considering the benefits of the Great Library. No one else will likely consider it, and if Over There are getting Edu, Astro, Chemistry and who knows what else, it could pay off nicely. Am I right in thinking that as long as you avoid Edu, you can get techs beyond it if available when the Great Lib is built? You probably had another wonder in mind, but I could get it in 17 turns in Swindon.
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The new southern lands will need to be improved, so our Workers are beginning to walk south through your territory. If they should take a specific route, please tell us which one. Settlers will follow later.
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Probably a line straight down west of Swindon, the route your guys are taking now. There's a tile at Corinth23 I keep forgetting to mine, so just avoid that one until it done please.
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Another issue concerning the south is your city of Tuskany. It seems the place is pretty awkward, messing up any sensible city patterns there. Would it be possible fo you to (re)move this city at some point (i.e. when our Settlers are ready to claim the area)?
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Yeah, we can move it when needed, and eventually leave the site to you. Can you get a colony/city on another Ivory soon so we can both have one?
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There is a place on our border, which is unclaimed, and nobody here seems to know the reason. We tried looking in our diplomatic archives, but there is no info why no city has been built south of Witch Village. Do you know anything about it? Would it be bad, if we placed a city at Witch Village 223, or at Witch Village 233?
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Fine. Is WV233 OK? New Plymouth was banking on the Wheat.
I was looking at putting a city on Silkfest111 and suggesting you took a site on the SE coast of the peninsula down there, east of Seige Perilous.
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Last but not least, the Holy Grail (the real one) has been found, as you know from the diplomacy last turn. We will present it to the rest of the world as soon as we get Astronomy.
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:-)
Are you researching? I've been saving up for musket upgrades, and now a bit more for rushing an Aqua for the Palace Jump to the SW, but I wasn't sure what research road to consider. Maybe some diplo is needed to see what the other teams are researching and but tech. If two rival teams have a tech for sale, it's possible to get a far better price than researching it.
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Cake for us, Death to the primates!
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and maybe LL too!
-Cort
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Cort Haus
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London
Apr 2002
time: 05:29
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Hello Cake or Death!
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We've just got a nice hit of war joy, which our heavily-stretched economy can certainly appreciate. I doubt they are about to invade, what with Tabemono chewing them up. |
Niessuh just informed us about it. Well, we can never have enough Happy Faces. Especially if they come for free. 
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Which one? I was considering the benefits of the Great Library. No one else will likely consider it, and if Over There are getting Edu, Astro, Chemistry and who knows what else, it could pay off nicely. Am I right in thinking that as long as you avoid Edu, you can get techs beyond it if available when the Great Lib is built? You probably had another wonder in mind, but I could get it in 17 turns in Swindon. |
We have just started one not long ago, so it is still over 30 turns. This is a gamble based on the tech situation (many wonders available or becoming avilable soon) and our almost-too-big-to-support army. We simply can spare a city to try it, and even with a late start, it still has good chances. Still time before we need to pick the actual target.
Yes, the Great Library gives you everything that is available when you get the wonder, including techs past Education. It is extremely powerful if you can afford to delay getting Education.
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Probably a line straight down west of Swindon, the route your guys are taking now. There's a tile at Corinth23 I keep forgetting to mine, so just avoid that one until it done please.
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Cool.
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Yeah, we can move it when needed, and eventually leave the site to you. Can you get a colony/city on another Ivory soon so we can both have one?
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It seems we would need Cathedrals anyway, and the luxury is not that crucial at the moment (would not help the 10% lux). It would be nice, but I think we will keep the first Settlers together, to form a cluster of cities and try hard to place the FP there. Then again, maybe we will decide to go for it, since the Road south is being made anyway.
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Fine. Is WV233 OK? New Plymouth was banking on the Wheat.
I was looking at putting a city on Silkfest111 and suggesting you took a site on the SE coast of the peninsula down there, east of Seige Perilous. |
Both sites are good, so WV233 is ok. It just felt like a waste to leave the last land close to the capital empty. We will first settle the Grasslands south of Siege Perilous, since the main resource for us there will be food - and that probably for long.
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Are you researching? I've been saving up for musket upgrades, and now a bit more for rushing an Aqua for the Palace Jump to the SW, but I wasn't sure what research road to consider. Maybe some diplo is needed to see what the other teams are researching and but tech. If two rival teams have a tech for sale, it's possible to get a far better price than researching it. |
We are finishing the Musket upgrade (not counting the Spears in the stack down south), and doing research on Monarchy with a Scientist. If it makes sense, we will try to rush a Courthouse in the planned FP city south (I know it would in C3C, but am not sure about PTW). Since our development was and is focused primarily on Markets, we will need a partner with Libraries, who will do the actual research. We got Gold and we want to spend it well. 
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Cake for us, Death to everyone who deserves it! : 
Modo
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Cort Haus
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London
Apr 2002
time: 05:29
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quote:
Hi Modo,
We moved into position outside Whalesong, leaving you the option of two tiles to advance to, and will also keep a space for your workers to funnel through the chokepoint to the south until our workers have finished around there.
Monkey have a galley S of Whale Song, possibly moving east. We have two galleys as blockers / interceptors round there and our second army near Tuskany able to move toward a threat. If monkey pull troops out of WS for a flanking raid it'll make our job easier at WS.
Seeing as Monkey heal between CoD's turn and Pythons, a full CoD assault next turn may not be best. Early on in the war CoD sent a stack of horsemen to weaken a Numid stack, but all Monkey HP were replaced by Python's turn, and some horsemen were lost for nothing. If Python use their cats first, there will be some HP off the Monkey stack for CoD's attack.
The other thing is defensive cats. If CoD attack first next turn, the defensive cats will hit both CoD then Python as the turn ends between us - allowing Monkey to use them twice. If Python assault first, then CoD's main LB attack wouldn't face the cats, and the overall odds of victory would be improved. Against this, Monkey would get another turn of pinging us.
What do you think? I'm not trying to protect CoD's stack particularly (our 200+ units (incl workers) are expensive to maintain), just looking for the best way to defeat Monkey.
Another thought - they'll probably send their fire against the CoD stack, as your Muskets could give you a GA which they might prefer you not to get. We'll see.
Onwards for the Monstrous Regiments!
Regards,
-Cort
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Krill
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On a cold wet rock, in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean.
Dec 2003
time: 05:29
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quote:
Hello and sorry for being sluggish!
 I knew I was supposed to do something more.
We got our GA started by killing a wounded Numidian with one of the Musketeers. Just felt like taking a chance.
We attacked, and we damaged them quite a bit (below is a list of units used and damage done to Monkey). Heavy losses on our side, as expected. The damage which resulted in kills is included in the HP totals:
* Catapults: 3 HP
* Longbowmen: 62 HP, 5 kills, 27 lost
* Swordsmen: 15 HP, 2 kills, 4 lost
* Musketeer: 3 HP, 1 Kill
All Numidians inside Whale Song are hurt now. Should be about 10-15 left, although my count might still be wrong. No clue what else sits there. Two cats bombed at first, but that was it.
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Cake for us, Death has been delivered already...
Modo |
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Cort Haus
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London
Apr 2002
time: 05:29
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quote:
Hi Modo,
Excuse the brevity (it's late) but here's the battle report. I'll write more later on :
Cats : 2 hits, (NMs 'CBS' and 'Danger Ranger' and 21 misses.
all 4/4 unless specified.
LB (FP) v NM (Ranger William) - LB 4/4
Sword v War - Sword 3/4
Horse v Archer - A 4/4, Horse retreats
Horse v Archer (Splat) - Horse 2/4
Horse v Archer (Twang) - Horse 2/5
Horse v Archer (Robin Hood) - A 2/4, Horse retreats
Horse v Archer - Horse 2/4
Horse v Archer (Poke) - Horse 1/4
Horse v Archer (Sting 2) - Horse 2/5
Horse v Archer (Flick) - Horse 3/4
Horse v Archer (Bop) - Archer 3/4
Horse v Archer (Zap) - Archer 1/4
Horse v Archer (Wiz) - Horse 3/4
Horse v Archer (Pop) - Horse 1/4
Horse v Archer (Fling) - Horse 2/4
LB v Warr (Zena) - LB 3/4
Warrior 3/3 v A 3/3 - Archer 2/3
LB v 1HP NM (Amy) - LB 4/4
LB v 1HP NM (Reg) - LB 2/4
LB v 1HP NM (Annie) - LB 4/4
LVB v A 3/4 (Bop) - LB 3/4
LB v 1HP NM (CBS) - LB 3/4
LB v 1HP NM (Ranger Danger) - LB 4/4
LB v 1HP NM (Mackinian) - LB 3/4
H 5/5 v 1/4 Archer - Horse 4/5
LB v 2/4 Archer (Robin Hood) - LB 3/4
War 5/5 v 1/4 Archer (Ping) - Warr 3/5
LB v Archer 1/4 (Zap) - LB 2/4
* Whale Song Destroyed!
23 kills - 7NM, 14 Archers, 2 Warriors
Lost 2 horses, 1 warrior + 2 retreats.
Monkey Navy
Monkey ships at Whale Song 477:
SS Preying Mantis, SS Osprey, SS Scorpion, SS Gator
Monkey ships at Whale Song 4:
another SS Scorpion
at Screecher Monkey 3 :
SS Hawk, SS Mosquito, SS Cotton Mouth
It looks like maybe 20 units escaped, and they have a strong fleet so I rushed 5 galleys in our west to add to the four in theatre (if they survive). The 2nd CoD army should be able to respond to any landings Monkey tries in your new terrain, and we still have ~ 10 fresh LB that could move north this turn. I accidently moved 1 LB the wrong way - never mind.
-Cort
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Cort Haus
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London
Apr 2002
time: 05:29
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quote:
Hello Cort Haus,
First, on wonder builds. We could have had the Great Library pretty soon, but we decided that trying for Bachs makes more sense in the long run. We are also prebuilding another wonder, probably Sun Tzu's. The GA made our cities ridiculously productive, so we are suddenly really in the contest.
This means our research will be directed to Education -> Music Theory. We are using the GA to get Libraries up quickly, so we can set up a good tech partnership.
Preparing to start building the FP in the south. We still have some Elites to try against Monkey, but no idea if that will work. Not really counting on a MGL.
Speaking of Monkey, they landed 10 Numidians around Dennis (our Worker). They promised they would annoy us for a while, and that seems to be going on now. Not really dangerous, though.
http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=54803_PTWDG2-MontyPython-500AD-south.jpg
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Cake for us, Death to Monkey. Avenge Dennis!
Modo
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Krill
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On a cold wet rock, in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean.
Dec 2003
time: 05:29
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quote:
Hi,
No Silks deal came this turn. I am not sure about PBEM mechanics here, so maybe there is no problem except for my lack of experience. Gave things to Governors anyway, just to be safe. Please remember to send Silks. Thank you in advance.
We got Monarchy now, to use the Hanging Gardens as a fallback plan (in case all other wonders go boom). Not sure yet if we will be trading this to anyone except you, so it stays in the safe for now. Once things are sorted out, I think we will simply forward the tech accepted.
Started Education, and it seems surprisingly easy to get. Either the combination of the difficulty level with our GA and recent infrastructure improvement is doing this, or somebody already has the tech.
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Cake for us, Death to Monkey
Modo |
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Krill
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On a cold wet rock, in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean.
Dec 2003
time: 05:29
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quote:
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Krill wrote on 04-06-2005 21:14:
Hi,
I was able to send the silks this turn, so no problem there. I still agree, however, that we should ask Gramphos to have a look at the save. |
Good to hear that. Gramphos did not answer yet. I think he might be busy with exams, or having some vacation.
Southern Lands
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As you can see I have managed to block most of the coast line up to WSWNY, and the only unblocked tiles are within reach of my army. Monkey can not chain the NM on the land, and if they try to move them north I can hit them with 4 galleys. Not much, but would weaken their army. |
Looks very well done. Thanks for defending us. 
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Any ideas you have about attacking are very welcome. I'm not a natural warmonger, so I am prone to making mistakes. |
I would say go ahead and finish those land units to gain real safety. And this is what I plan to do, if Darekill (our new COWARD) does not say otherwise.
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In four turns, Tuskany produces a worker. However, I am quite willing to hand it over now, but I think it would be wiser if I change its production to wealth, and let it grow, and then hand it over, so that the food in the box is not lost. Your choice with regards to when I hand over the keys to the city. Though I would like some Ivory... |
I think you should keep the city for now. It will be some time before our Settlers come down to fill the space (and connect any more Ivory). Your city is going to be abandoned when we are ready to settle (bad timing on my part, not anticipating and not directing the CoD Settler when I could have  ). But until that happens, make whatever best you can with it.
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PS: If you want, I can send you about 100gpt to help fund your research if you need/want it. |
We are running a small deficit now, but that might change when we get Silks (I have to see that to know for sure.) Still, we will need some funding after Education is done. How much, that remains to be seen. It is important that you get ready for research, too. Even if the Great Library works out as it can, it remains a one-time boost nonetheless.
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Cake for us, Death to Monkey
Modo
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Originally sent by Modo
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Bad news (for me, anyway). MAST are building the GL in one of their core cities, so it is probably a prebuild that is about to complete.
So this effectively puts a large dent in any plans I have. |
Well, crap. It would be good for both our nations if you got it. 
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Having seen this, would it be possible for me to buy tech off you, starting with education? Or we can enter a complete tech alliance, but I doubt you will take that... |
Last time I checked, a tech alliance was exactly what we wanted. Obviously you would have to catch up first, though. But wait, do you have anything to catch up? I believe there is nothing. So, if the Great Library is indeed getting built on the other continent, I suggest you go for Metallurgy.
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Also, with the War in the south, I ahve managed to block every tile that Monkey could land on next turn, but I reckon that they will just move all of their units to the island, and then just wait it out. If they do that, we might have to think about a peace treaty... |
Possibly, yes. Or, let them retire from the game, as they seem to have suggested once or twice.
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and good luck with Sistines, I hope you get it |
Who said it is going to be Sistine's? 
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PS. Want to bet how long LL can stay on the main continent? I bet 6 turns.
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I shall convey your question to the Council.
And thanks for the Silks. We are now down to 0% luxuries thanks to that.
--
Cake for us, Death to Monkey (finally )
Modo |
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Krill
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On a cold wet rock, in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean.
Dec 2003
time: 05:29
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Well, I have a prebuld going, but I will probably change it to either a uni, or maybe Coperns if we get there in time. Bachs would be nice, but I don't really care for it, personally. Smiths would be perfect, but we would have to beeline straight there. |
Whatever suits you. I believe neither of us has any prebuild timed for Smiths, though. That one is way to far. Our goals are Sun Tzu's, and probably Bach's. As to Copernicus', I think you might have a shot, depending on happenings on the other continent.
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Cool. I'll start research on Chem next turn, when we have palaced jumped. It should go down from 14 turns to research at break even to atleast ten (I'm losing a lot of commerce in the south). |
Hope that happens. Monty will go for Astronomy. We will be getting them techs a bit faster due to the GA, obviously. With most cities having Markets and Libraries up and running, things are looking pretty good overhere.
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Who said it is going to be Sistine's? |
Well, you could be building the Oracle... |
Actually, were we building the Oracle, it would be there already, like some turns ago. Did I mention I decided last turn not to go for a third wonder, so that we would not become a target too soon?
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Krill
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On a cold wet rock, in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean.
Dec 2003
time: 05:29
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quote:
quote:
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Actually, were we building the Oracle, it would be there already, like some turns ago. Did I mention I decided last turn not to go for a third wonder, so that we would not become a target too soon?
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Well, if the oracle was the third wonder, people would be queueing up to invade you on account of stupidity. |
Hey, I thought this game was about roleplaying. How better to roleplay as Monty Python than by deliberately building useless stuff?
(What I meant was, the second prebuild is a bit more advanced, and already passed the Oracle' cost.)
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nah, I reckon we are going to get invaded anyway, or this game is going to last to the modern era. If Monkey retire, we can move our units back into the homelands to cover the coasts. Hell, we can move most of the units back, and I'll leave the horses there to cover the southern coast if Monkey stays in the game...
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It will all be decided by the other continent, unfortunately. Even if we get Rubber and Oil, we will not do much damage without Iron to build Factories, unless 3 civs stay alive over there and/or they keep fighting each other... Crazy as it might sound (with Monty having a fleet of one Galley), an Invasion now would probably be the best thing to do. After they get Riflemen to defend, there will be no way for us to get through, even if we manage to land. Them being bigger, and having Iron, will mean us just waiting for the Marines and Tanks to arrive. Not much of a fun game...
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Krill wrote on 15-06-2005 23:58:
yeah, it won't be any fun unless you really want to MM. I am starting to understand GoW and NDs side of "Shared Victory". If the other continent gets put down to two civs, then they can simply deny us iron, and if they do that we can't win, can't even compete. We could always Rush Galleys, and then upgrade them to Caravels, while moving most of our forces back up north, we might just be able to take LLs old lands.
Want to try? It could be fun.
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I think it is at least a fun solution (even though the chances are less than stellar). I will make a poll for the remaining active Monty members, to see what they think.
OctavianX says LL will last 10 turns.
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Modo
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Krill
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On a cold wet rock, in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean.
Dec 2003
time: 05:29
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Hi,
I will know about funding next turn, as Education gets researched then, and Astronomy (or Music Theory) started.
As to Monkey, they could only be allowed Tundra cities, without defenders, and only until our Settlers are there (coming in at a steady pace, as you know). And they would have to pay us, which does not seem fun for them but hey, I won't argue.
Courthouses work in the second core (not much, but visible), so it is not as bad as some might think. The cities there actually can produce more than 1 Shield each, so we will have the FP in less than 100 turns. Please do not tell anyone else.
So far, we (me and OctavianX) are two voters out of two in favor of invading ex-LL lands. Thus, we would like to borrow Horses for a while for a Cavalry prebuild of as many as can be made. Can you provide that, and if yes, for how many turns at a time? Of course, it would still be a long time before we have a fleet (of Galleys upgraded to Caravels, and some of those built from scratch, I imagine) to move any reasonable force...
--
Cake for us, Death... oh well, we will figure something out...
Modo
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OK, understood. I'll try to hammer something out, unless you would like a seat at the negoitiating table? |
You can have the pleasure. Just make sure they know they will have to yield once Monty Settlers (oh boy, 10000 Monty Python members, that must be a sight) arrive.
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No problem. Ruched a courthouse in the FP city yet? (I can give you the gold if you have not. |
Way ahead of you. Already getting some cash stored for future upgrades or whatever comes.
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And I was only joking when I said that...I can send you horses whenever you want, but I need to know what to do with the army that I already have. It is costing me 120+ gpt, even without the workers...Do you know how many shields I get when I disband a longbow? |
No clue, I'm afraid. We want the invasion, or else this game would mean just trotting towards inevitable (!) loss for both our civs (let us face it, nobody would sell us Iron after we have Industrialization). Which means disbanding those units would not be very helpful (getting them killed sounds like more fun). Boats are our main problem, as Monty has very underdeveloped coastal cities (losing the GA production boost to ship production would suck indeed).
I am starting to think that rushing some might be sensible. 
We do have threeeeeee (opps) Fishing Villages. 
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Modo
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Krill
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On a cold wet rock, in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean.
Dec 2003
time: 05:29
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Hi,
Silly me, did not think about it. Fortunately Octavian was there to remind me. Monkey have Horses on that island they claimed. So, as part of their payment, they should obviously send those Horses to Monty, so that Monty and CoD can both build Horse-based units as we please. They will not need the resource anyway.
--
Modo
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Hi,
Education is here, and here you are, take it.
As to cash for research, we will need some for the next tech. The current (Astronomy) is 4 turns away with a slight loss, but enough surpulus cash in the treasury. Of course if you wish to send Gold earlier, feel free to do so.
We will probably try to get Copernicus' Observatory and Sun Tzu's Art of War. Someone suggested a third wonder (and he was not joking), but I went with Universities. At least until/unless I get overruled. 
In other news, first Galleys were bought for our glorious Suicide Squad (and I mean bought). I have no idea how that invasion thing works out, but am preparing the fleet nonetheless (just not in the core, to let it build infrastructure). If you can make Monkey send us Horses, that would be grand. If not, please send some of your own for a turn or three.
Most important: Will you be able to transport your glorious army to LL territory (consider Caravels, of course)? The thing is, Monty will probably be the smaller force there (you know, Whale Song...). 
Happy news: Sir Ralph emerged from lurker status and made three posts thanks to the invasion idea. And went back to lurking, I think. Aparently, it is active lurking.
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Cake for us.
Modo
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Hi,
My thoughts, not consulted with the team yet. "The team" is some 2 active players (me included) and maybe twice as many lurkers, so this is probably our official line.
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I just checked F4, and I am incredably shocked that we are not tech lagards. I expected the other teams to have physics by now...
I just incresed the slider, and I will have Chemistry in 6 turns. I'll have used a lot of gold, though, and I might have to use the rest to persuade Monkey to come around to a plan I have been thinking about. To get Chem in 4 turns, I need about 450 gold, and I would use up pretty much all of my gold...Just a FYI, incase you want to go for magnetism for the invasion, for galleons  |
The Monty army is much smaller due to that onslaught, so we can do fine with Caravels, (un)fortunately. Since we need to attack quickly, this would help you much more, I think. The tech is mandatory anyway, so why not... The only problem is, that would delay the launching of the invasion...
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OK, to the Monkry plan: basically, it comes down to this. We are going to invade the LL lands. If we manage to win the war, we would have enough space for 5 Palace/FP cores, so why not promise some land to Monkey, if they help us win the land? Monkey might not have enough galies to move their entire army (minus 7 units to form a sea wall to kepp the paranoa down) to LL land, so the would need gold to support the gallies and their army. I don't mind paying the upkeep, as it will allow us to field enough cats and NM to hold down another city. |
Sounds reasonable up to this point. And Galleons would help indeed.
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The only problem with this scenario is, if we win, we have to either give Monkey the LL land, with the iron, or (gasps) give them their old land back, and you colonise the LL land. Now, before you denounce me for what I just said, I would never expect anyone to give up land, so we would have to give Monkey the LL land, grin, and bare it. |
I do not think we will give back the land we got, to start making new Settlers, rushing new structures, and so forth. As to giving Monkey land to live, this sounds doable, but only as long as we (Monty or CoD) get the Iron. Remember that the whole idea of this war is to get some Iron we would not have to buy from others. If Monkey can accept leaving at least two fortified cities in their core (one on Iron, one Harbor, maybe a third to assure connected borders), we can go with it.
What about the Horses going to Monty?
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With regards to the invasion itself, I have been thinking that a two pronged attack would be best, with Me dropping off 40 Long Bows, 20 Muskets, 30 cats, and however many cav I can upgrade/build. That is the reason I want the galleons. Otherwise, I would need 30+ caverals... |
Remember to leave a few at home. There is no guarantee they will just look past our continent. 
Looks like Magnetism will be needed. I assume you plan to research Military Tradition parallel?
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I hink it would be a good idea for everyone to get together and have a chat about the invasion. I won't be able to do tomorrow evening, but from Sunday onwards, I will be around, on MSN |
No MSN here, sorry. No time for chats either, really.
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Cake for us. Death to... Tabemono, is it? Or MAST?
Modo
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Krill
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On a cold wet rock, in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean.
Dec 2003
time: 05:29
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That was just me rambling on. Sorry if it was difficult to understand at times. |
What do you mean? I had no problems understanding.
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What I do need to know is how many turns until we land. I don't have many gallies either, and all of ports on the west coast, ar, to put it mildly, absolute ****, and I don't have much gold for rushing. |
It would be best if we could pull it off in less than 20 turns. The units I am moving north would be used to attack, with Horsemen (to be built) left to build a sea wall. The problem is getting you Galleons by that time, while rushing/building enough cheaper ships. If we delay too long, LL will die, and an invasion will be that much more difficult (no diversion ). But maybe not (see below).
A counter-question: How soon do you think you could have anot-so-big force ready? How soon can you assemble all the power?
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Therefore, incase I forget later, don't send Astronomy to me, until I ask for it, so that I can kepp on building cheaper gallies for upgrade later. |
Ok, will keep it from you.
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Also, we ought to consider what effect LL we have on the fighting, as they might still be around when we invade... |
They would provide a distraction, I think. If we choose limited objectives (Iron City + Harbor City), they would probably not be able to stop us. But 20 turns might mean there will be no LL left to talk to.
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What about the Horses going to Monty? |
Horses, Sorry, I forget this turn I'll send them next turn, and I won't need them for a while. |
I meant from Monkey but that will do, too.
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I'll talk to Beta about the land, and that will probably be enough of an incentive to get them on our side...and that is what we really need right now...more troops for the Meat Grinder |
Ahh, now I was being dumb. We have used them once (for our GA ), we can use them twice (with a nice backstab, if it comes to that). Sounds good.
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That was excluding the units I will be leaving behind...I'll be using mostly horses to just block off the coast, so that noone can land. |
Some force there.  :
In that case, waiting for Galleons might actually make sense. You know, seeing who will jump to which throat after LL is gone, and then quietly providing a surprise... We really, Really, REALLY (thank you, Arrian ) need to keep this under the radar...
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Modo
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Well, 10 Lb, 9 Muskets, 10 cats, 2 horses, are all ready to roll right now. It's just that I have got to finish a market in Plymouth, then New Haven is not even at 10 spt, and the next port on the west coast is Skewdaw, which is at 6 spt (or something like that), but that city is without a harbour, and is towards the end of the isthmus.
From there on it gets really bad. I would have to rush pretty much everything with gold. That might be possible after chemistry, but it would probably be more cost effective to just shove the gold into research.
I'm just checking the save now, and I reckon that the best points of invasion are either the hills 2222, and 22222 of Helena. If we set the invasion for landing in 660 AD, I can have (rough estimate) 15 gallies, so that would mean 45 spaces available when I upgrade. Say, 28 LB, 15 Muskets, 2 settler on the first trip, 325 cats and another 15 muskets, and another 5 workers on the second.
Unfortunatly, Tabemono are strong even to that force, and MAST are at about 80% of the strength. Something that ought to be considered. |
Monty should try to add as many units as possible, then...
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If we could raze Nationalism (Damned MASTers), and place a town on the hill 99 of that city...I'll take those odds anyday, If I can put the SoD in it... |
The "if" is rather big, though. :/
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Ahh, now I was being dumb. We have used them once (for our GA ), we can use them twice (with a nice backstab, if it comes to that). Sounds good. |
Ethics, smethics, how needs them Nice doing business with you |
Same here.
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They would provide a distraction, I think. If we choose limited objectives (Iron City + Harbor City), they would probably not be able to stop us. But 20 turns might mean there will be no LL left to talk to. |
ASAP, then. I was wondering, what is your research plan? After Astro, it is either go for navigation, or magnetism, as we wil need to use the ocean tiles for manoeverability. That is another 4 turns of research, then what? Rush to Cav? |
We could try to, but I would consider Cavalry as a secondary force, with the first one consisting of whatever we have. If we wait for too long, we risk waiting long enough to enable them Riflemen (and Drafting!!!), in which case we are toast.
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The only problem is, it would take 14 turns to get Mil trad. We would have to use timed prebuilds, and even then, we would not have that many cav. When I have finished chem in 6 turns, I could send you as much money as possible so you can research each tech in 4 turns, and then upgrade and build as many cav as possible, via prebuilds and upgrades. (I can't really afford that many more units).
If you do that, I can be the anvil, and hopefully, both MAST and Tabemono will smash their armies against 20+ muskets, on a hill, in a walled town (defense 9 :evilgrin and then you can dismember whatever that is left of MAST and Tabes' armies are left at the end...
If we do that, I won't bother building any more LB, I'll just take all of them that I have ready, but will build up more horses as a seawall, and muskets. |
Well, I wanted Horses to do prebuilds anyway. Should be a good number with the GA (and wonders getting finished...). By the way, if you sent Horses, nothing arrived.
How are the negotiations with Monkey coming?
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Cake for us, Death to whoever stands in our way!
Modo
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Krill
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On a cold wet rock, in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean.
Dec 2003
time: 05:29
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Hi,
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to the Alliance idea. I agree 100%. |
Cool. We have spare Wines, and now a sea connection, so we can lure Sunshine some more.
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The tech Sale idea though, it would only work if we know for a fact that they have not carried on to mil trad. |
As to Sunshine, we have nothing to sell them anyway. As to the other teams, selling them anything requires you or Monty to finish the Great Libbrary before they do.
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If they have done that, we have to be careful...It would be better if we simply post athread in the public forum, and use it as propaganda or use it as a laugh. |
Agreed. But how do we know that before invading???
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And if SS bring up iron, remember they have enough for the both of us, and still have one left over for themselves. |
Which is good. Could be a no-brainer for them to sell it, at least before Factories. I doubt they would just forget to cut us off by then...
Finally got basic infrastructure done, and the first real shipyard started. Our stack is smaller than yours, so we should be able to get enough transports when it reaches the northern land. Thanks for leaving the way through the Mountains open.
Claiming the island next turn. You can see it on the map. Not much to show, really.
Copernicus' and Sun Tzu's completion is very near. So are first Universities. We should have pretty good research and general cashflow even after the GA is over.
Thanks for providing protection against Monkey in the south.
Our own units are in the core now, in case anyone tries something stupid. Once you have worked out something with Monkey, do let us know.
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Cake for us
Modo
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Krill
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On a cold wet rock, in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean.
Dec 2003
time: 05:29
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Hello,
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I sent Chemistry accepted this turn. Tabemono is the only other team that has it. SS does not. I can get Banking in 7 turns running a small positive gpt, but first of all I need a turn of max tax to get some gold for short rushes and the like. |
And make sure you do not research Banking, as we are already on it (started 600 AD). Did I not write about it? 
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The earliest I can leave, with my main army that was used against Monkey, is 650 AD.
However, I can leave before that with 9 muskets, 8 cats, 5 horsemen, and 10 Longbow men. The problem is that I will not have the capacity to move all of them. I can move 12 of them next turn 620 AD, 14 in 630 AD, and 16 in 640 AD. However, without either Magnetism or Navigation, I can not move directly west. I will have to move via the normal crossing route. |
With such numbers, we could just as well call it off. I think we need to be able to take many/most of our forces to actually achieve anything...
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Looking at it from this angle, MAST or Tabemono are going to see us coming and will have ample time to block the coast. If they do this, we have no chance of a landing.
So, we need to have navigation for the safe ocean voyage. It is either that or risk everything. |
Ditto. Which means 7 turns until we can upgrade, which means how many? 10 turns until landing? Slow but probably the only realistic (well, that's an overstatement) chance.
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Cake for us, Death to that Bastard who made this map
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Ditto.
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Modo
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Krill
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On a cold wet rock, in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean.
Dec 2003
time: 05:29
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Hi,
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And make sure you do not research Banking, as we are already on it (started 600 AD). Did I not write about it? |
No, I went 100% Tax, I really need the cash for upgrades and short rushes |
 No cash wasted, then.
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Weel, that is the amount I can carry in galleys. If they are Caravels, multiply the numbers by 1.5, but delay everything a turn. So if we left in 650 AD, I could take closer to 30 units in Caravels. But I can not do any research for a few turns. |
Do you think we can delay some research to get the show on the road? I think we should...
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Ditto. Which means 7 turns until we can upgrade, which means how many? 10 turns until landing? Slow but probably the only realistic (well, that's an overstatement) chance. |
If we did wait for that, though I would be able to take about 80% of my whole army. I mean, c. 30 Longbows, 25 Muskets, 30 cats, 3 settlers. Something that would really hurt. |
And since LL will be just as dead in 5 turns... I think we ought to wait, and punch them real good.
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Modo
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Krill
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On a cold wet rock, in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean.
Dec 2003
time: 05:29
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Hi again.
Straight to business. What turn are your units going to land on the other continent? If you send astro next turn, I can get there, in caravels, on 670 AD, with units landed. Not a turn sooner, unless I risk it by sending the cavarels over the ocean, and I can't risk that.
If we do that I can get 34 units across, and landed. Maybe 37 if I can scrape together the cash for another rush.
As we would have to land on grassland, I will take a hell of a lot of Muskets. About 21 Muskets, all that I can muster for this trip, 2 Settlers, and then 11 Longbows. I will save up cash for a rushed barracks and walls (what, 320 gold? Should not be too difficult)
I think that I will try to land on New Plymouth 1444444, allowing you to land in the north.
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On the Civilian Front, I just hit 200 shields on the build in Swindon. If SS take the GL (Which I hope they do), then the only wonders that I can build that are of any use are Newtons, and Smiths. The MAST build in Gasluokta will go straight out of the window as they are tech laggards now, and you have Sun Tzus in the bag (or rather, if someone else beats you to it we have no chance of knowing of that build, so there is no point planning about it).
Again, congrats on Coperns. Must help a bit on the science.
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Do you have any idea of when you are going to be finished with the horses? I will need them back in a short while, to get that mobile screen up and running to stop any invasions in their tracks.
Our GA should start in 9 turns, and I am going to finish Phyisics on that turn (I would finish it sooner, but I spending more on the army than I can do on science without running a deficit...) 
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Krill
Cake for us, Death to Panzer32, the git who made this map... |
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Krill
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On a cold wet rock, in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean.
Dec 2003
time: 05:29
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quote:
Hi,
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Straight to business. What turn are your units going to land on the other continent? If you send astro next turn, I can get there, in caravels, on 670 AD, with units landed. Not a turn sooner, unless I risk it by sending the cavarels over the ocean, and I can't risk that. |
Friend Krill, I am happy to inform you that we at Monty were clever enough to make very optimistic plans regarding the future. The Caravels are slow enough to provide us with a delay of at least three turns more. It might be possible that we land around 700 AD.
(Yeah, I messed up my count here. Started it a bit too late. I fear the coast will be guarded by then. We could be in at 670 AD, but only with a meager 15 units or so. 700 AD is doable, not sooner. )
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I think that I will try to land on New Plymouth 1444444, allowing you to land in the north. |
Wherever possible is fine by me.
(I never did an overseas invasion in Civ3, so you lead the way here.)
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On the Civilian Front, I just hit 200 shields on the build in Swindon. If SS take the GL (Which I hope they do), then the only wonders that I can build that are of any use are Newtons, and Smiths. The MAST build in Gasluokta will go straight out of the window as they are tech laggards now, and you have Sun Tzus in the bag (or rather, if someone else beats you to it we have no chance of knowing of that build, so there is no point planning about it). |
Well, the Great Library at Sunshine disappeared (no clue what that was). I can not tell you what to do with your builds, so I will not.
As to Monty, Sun Tzu's is due in 2 turns. No other wonders planned for a while.
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Again, congrats on Coperns. Must help a bit on the science. |
Yup, along with the GA-rushed Universities.
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Do you have any idea of when you are going to be finished with the horses? I will need them back in a short while, to get that mobile screen up and running to stop any invasions in their tracks. |
Finishing last one next turn. If you want, I can cancel the deal then.
We have Banking, started Metallurgy (delayed starting Metallurgy by a turn to get cash reserves upped). Astronomy sent accepted.
We got news from Sunshine, after offering them Wines. They have Banking already, so no deal there. We will probably get resources and/or gold from them.
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Cake for us, Death to Panzer32, the git who made this map...
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(Although, I saw a very old post in our domestic thread lately (early 2004 or so). It seems there was Iron in Monty land at the beginning, only the resourse depleted a long time ago. So I guess it is death to the friggin' RNG. )
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Modo
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Krill
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On a cold wet rock, in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean.
Dec 2003
time: 05:29
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Friend Krill, I am happy to inform you that we at Monty were clever enough to make very optimistic plans regarding the future. The Caravels are slow enough to provide us with a delay of at least three turns more. It might be possible that we land around 700 AD.
(Yeah, I messed up my count here. Started it a bit too late. I fear the coast will be guarded by then. We could be in at 670 AD, but only with a meager 15 units or so. 700 AD is doable, not sooner. ) |
No matter. I will have to decline Astro this turn then, and will notify you in advance of when I can accept it. What s done, is done, and there is nothing we can do about it now.
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Wherever possible is fine by me.
(I never did an overseas invasion in Civ3, so you lead the way here.) |
Only one I have ever been involved in was the Lego war, and that was industrial, marines, RRs, and taking down Lego in one turn. So I have no experience here either, as these circumstances are so different...
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Well, the Great Library at Sunshine disappeared (no clue what that was). I can not tell you what to do with your builds, so I will not.
As to Monty, Sun Tzu's is due in 2 turns. No other wonders planned for a while. |
Damn, pity about SS, but good luck with yours.
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Yup, along with the GA-rushed Universities. |
And I'll be stuck with GA rushed libs and markets, but oh well.
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Finishing last one next turn. If you want, I can cancel the deal then.
We have Banking, started Metallurgy (delayed starting Metallurgy by a turn to get cash reserves upped). Astronomy sent accepted.
We got news from Sunshine, after offering them Wines. They have Banking already, so no deal there. We will probably get resources and/or gold from them. |
Pity about banking, but they will fall behind if they don't increase the amount of pop in their cities pretty quickly.
About Horses, that would be great thanks. I really need to start building some for coastal cover in the east.
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(Although, I saw a very old post in our domestic thread lately (early 2004 or so). It seems there was Iron in Monty land at the beginning, only the resourse depleted a long time ago. So I guess it is death to the friggin' RNG. ) |
Didn't you know? Python had the sole iron on the continent to begin with, and planned a sword rush. The original turn players gave Arrian and CH the first refusal of being the sword rush victim, so they decided to help you against Monkey. They built up warriors and upgrade cash, but two turns before they could upgrade them the iron depleted. that is the reason that we never had anything but horses and a single sword for the war. ifthe iron had not depleted, we would have had MI, cats, Pikes, Knights, and no friggin intercontinental war on our hands.
Still, I blame panzer for only putting a single iron on our continent, with those massive mountain ranges.
I'll only stop blaming him if he gave us all of the coal.
Krill
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08-01-2005 05:00
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