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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:29
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Good discussion. I absolutely see your point, Cort (& Krill). It's a risk. Potentially a big risk.
I worry about jumping at shadows, however. If we're going to win this war, we have to destroy their core cities and also destroy their army.
They've been extremely cautious thus far to avoid major combat. Part of me WANTS them to march out. With both Python and CoD's cores pumping out troops, and the possibility of coming up behind them with our horsemen (and/or a few longbows we bring up via our galleys), I think such a decision by the Monkeys would ultimately result in the two things we desire most: the destruction of their core and their army. We may suffer as well - and if I'm wrong we will suffer horribly - but if we keep worrying about a Monkey flanking operation, we will be marching east, west, east, west, east, west as we work our way down their lands. It will take much longer to destroy their means of production and thus we will face more Monkey units - and thereby increase the possibility that they really could destroy our stack.
-Arrian
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Krill
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On a cold wet rock, in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean.
Dec 2003
time: 05:29
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Against Numids? About 50 of 'em? they would split into 5 ministacks, and we could never catch them 
Here is an idea that might just work:
How much would it be to rush a temple, if we disband a cheap unit in the stack? if we move 3 (this turn),and Python move 6 this turn, keeping them within reach of our cores.
We build a town (next turn), disband a cheap unit, and rush something cultural and cheap, And Python move 3 that turn again
Then the borders would expand the turn after (2 turns from now), taking the road linking Orang and Gorrila, which we could use to hit either town.
We then gift the town to Python, so that they can enter the town after we have hit Monkey, and do the same rush thing so that they can control the road to Orang. Our stack would not be open, except right before we built the town. What do you think?
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Cort Haus
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London
Apr 2002
time: 05:29
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Yes, it's certainly worth thinking about, as Plan C. I see how it would allow us to hit 2 cities, but there are downsides beyond what I've mentioned. We could go through it point-for-point but its tough enough weighing up pros and cons for plans A and B before having a plan C on the table.
The move has to be agreed with Python, and Modo44, as the only member of his team around is prepared to go with either plan A or plan B. I could still sugest the plan C to him but I'm not convinced myself. There wouldn't actually be enough gold for starters, and I do think we need it for future upgrades.
I must admit, I'm still tempted by the move south. The possible rewards are huge, the risks terrible, but I'm open to considering it if we gave chase with our stack - our whole stack probably. Arrian has a point about flushing them out, and they would be kissing their core goodbye. We could probably hold them up for a turn around FS and another further north on the hills, allowing our stack to catch up. By the time they reached our borders Python could have pushed their empire onto the ice.
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Cort Haus
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London
Apr 2002
time: 05:29
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50 Numids are scary. I don't think they've got that many, or they wouldn't have disbanded those cities, but a 50 unit mixed bag of NM, Cats, Archers marching out of Orang is possible. Raising something in 10 turns to deal with that sounds a very difficult task, and not one I'm sure I could do.
However, I don't think they'd have it all in Orang this turn unless they were planning to strike north.
{Typo Edited}
Last edited by Cort Haus on 25-11-2004 at 04:45
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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:29
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Minor nitpick: we went EAST, not West. 
No biggy, since you sent a picture along to Python. They will figure it out.
...
Krill,
What GS accomplished with our land, with the surprise Vox attack, etc., I think is more impressive than what CoD has done. I'm pleased with our work, no doubt. But I also know that if we'd had Nathan, Aeson, DeepO... oh, how we would have rocked! Of course, given that, Python prolly woulda hit us instead of Monkey, so it's all good I would also be looking at yet another 2-tile spaced empire, ugh!*
-Arrian
* - I must admit, however, at least to this point it does appear that I kinda screwed us by going with my wider 3-tile spacing at the outset. With our land we shouldn't be lagging in 3rd-4th place in the crucial statistics.
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Cort Haus
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London
Apr 2002
time: 05:29
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quote:
Hello Cake or Death
We are pleased to announce that our Great Mage Merlin, working in his Lonely Tower is done researching the wonders of Monotheism. Whaddaya know, apparently there is only The One God.
We have gathered and we gather that we should gather send this knowledge to you. Not sure why, but perhaps you know better, if we were supposed to pay you or something? Our historians are... well... tired after last night. So they weren't really helpfull in that matter.
As the new One God (whatever) came by, so came his Knights and the Quest for the Holy Grail. We will keep you informed.
Also, we have... hmm... new ministers, yes. They have noted that some grave errors were made concerning our domestic policy. This means that we must slow down our War Office Building a bit, in order to keep it from crumbling. Ahh, but we will be back with a vengaence (or so we hope).
To be honest, we are close to the limit we can sustain (129gpt for units is a lot to us), due to the smaller land mass, and due to some mismanagement earlier. We are simply not able to field a larger army at the moment. We are also beginning to worry about defending our home from a possible future invasion by sea. This means very few reinforcements going south for a while. Lucky Monkeys.
Since Merlin is really exhausted after his recent breakthrough, he might go after someting easy, like Monarchy. It seems we can't do any decent research at the moment. So perhaps we could help you keep the speed instead, by sending some coins your way? If you have other suggestions, then let us know.
Oh, and some sad news. Our citizens seem to be addicted to wearing Silks. We tried our best, but we couldn't persuade them to use cotton instead. So when your exquisite Silk fabrics stopped coming in, they started rioting. Can you believe that?
(Yes, this is a kind request to renew the deal. )
Last but not least, our stack will go 3 now, to keep the Monkeys worried about their cities. Also, the defenders of Siege Perilous will join in, probably on the next turn or in 2 turns. We wouldn't want them Monkeys to feel safe, would we?
--
Congratulations on causing Monkey some casualties.
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Cort Haus
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London
Apr 2002
time: 05:29
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quote:
Monkey have departed from their script, and disbanded the city before we could get there. I moved a horse onto the mountain for a look.
That's 16 NM, 7 Archers, 5 Cats on the stack.
Out west we can see 4 NM, 3 Cat, 2 Archers.
For some reason Monkey is showing us 30 units. What I also don't get is how this time there is no pillage unit left on the city tile, and no road.
If we both move due south as originally intended for the approach to the now-extinct Orang, Monkey could hit your stack without us covering and be able to retreat to safety. However, we know their forces are not all available to strke, as at least nine units are out west.
If Python moved south-east or southwest monkey can't hit you this turn, but we know that they can't hit you with everything anyway.
Due south for the CoD stack looks attractive as there are hills all the way down to Pri Cent which they can't attack us on. Are you guys tempted to split the stacks at this point with CoD heading for PriCent and Python heading west? Or would you prefer to keep formation, move '3' and head for PriCent together? The third, most direct option (both move south) gives Monkey a chance to hit you, but not with everything?
Any thoughts?
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Cort Haus
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London
Apr 2002
time: 05:29
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quote:
Sorry Modo, I have already played the turn, moving south towards Pri Cent. If we are to stick safely together you can move 3 and Monkey can't get you. CoD are steaming ahead with building a new combined-arms group to defend on the hills against a possible Monkey flanking move, so we don't spend time zig-zagging. We don't want to wait for Monkey to get Invention, and we can keep the pressure on now without risking our rear. We want them to force them to disband as many cities asap to push their support bill above their GPT and send them into Anarchy-Barbarian-mode, ending production and commerce.
If we force them to disband PriCent I think their Capital will move south, rendering Gorilla/Macaque and the third western city corrupt. Either they abandon the west or split their forces, or try and send all their forces north. By that time, CoD can build defences on our southern border to deal with it.
I explained to Trip from Sunshine that CoD, Python and Tabemono own the rights together for Invention, but only CoD and Tabemono researched Gunpowder. However, in order that Python could recieve GP despite not being able to pay for it, I said to Tabemono "Let us give GP to Python and the rights to sell to the the other teams are yours". Not a great deal for us, and bad play by me, but there was no other way we could pay for you to get the GP you needed - and I had no time available to try to negotiate something better.
Tabemono have ignored my last 6 PMs and emails about trading for Theology, so I don't know what's happening there.
I think that SS would be getting too much with Theo=Invention + GP, even if Theo went to 3 teams. It I wouldn't mind knowing what Tabemono say to SS about it. One idea was for one of Tabemono/Python/CoD to recieve Theology for Invention with a 20-turn NTA, and the other two getting it after 20 turns. Or for the three teams to give pay a cash supplement to all get Theo. SS want a deal including GP for obvious reasons, but that's (a) complicated and (b) too good for SS in my view.
-Cort
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Cort Haus
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London
Apr 2002
time: 05:29
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quote:
Hello Cake or Death
Thanks for the info about trades. If nobody answers your PMs,
perhaps the guys you try to contact are not in charge anymore? Perhaps posting in the open forum might help? A complete silence seems unlikely, unless...
If they keep still because of some bad intentions, how long do you think we should wait before acting? By acting I mean trade (and thus keep better relations) with someone on the other continent. Of course, at the moment, that means Sunshine. After all, the other teams know about the war with Monkey, and they know that a large part of our armies is south. Granted they don't have the exact numbers, but still... If I was one of them, I'd seriously consider starting an invasion right now. Might be my paranoia, but it seems like a real possibility. 
Either way, I will try to contact Tabemono myself, to see if they answer at all.
I'll let you know what we will do with our stack, when it's decided. Personally, with your current move, I'd go for some offensive action in the other direction (south-west, or west - finally trying to draw some blood  ), but it's a team decision. So it will probably wait until right before the save is played. 
--
Happy Monkey hunting.
Modo
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and my reply
quote:
The best way to guard against an overseas invasion before Astronomy is to stack some blocker-galleys on the 2 tiles near LL that incoming boats (without ligthhouse) would need. Admittedly, this is no good against a team that assembled a fleet and finished a G Lighthouse prebuild. We have one galley on lookout there atm.
Hopefully we can restore comms with Tabemono to ease concerns, but I'd have thought that the 4 civs over there should be more worried about defending their borders against each other than attacking us. No one civ would risk carrying a decent force over here if it leaves their homeland vunerable to their neighbours. Sunshine are (supposedly) hippie-builders, MAST are resource-weak, and LL/Tabemono were, last I heard, nervous of each other.
Having said this, increasing the naval pickets/blockers might be worth thinking about.
I know what you mean about wanting to draw blood. SW looks tempting, as you say. Enjoy your turn!
Regards,
-Cort
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Cort Haus
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London
Apr 2002
time: 05:29
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quote:
Happy New Year to you Modo! 
The furry foe have Gunpowder! Hopefully they won't get the chance to use it - for a while - but it shows how foreign interventionists are interfering against us. Latin Lover is the most likely suspect, as Tabemono and Sunshine have signed agreements against that sort of thing. The fact that Sunshine have only just got Invention and Gunpowder is only coincidence - or is it not? We should consider our diplomatic response.
Fact is - all the other civs have a rational and legitimate cause to support Monkey against us, and we have to accept that. We can, however, nurture a legitimate thirst for revenge!
Primate Central has been disbanded, and the capital shifted to Chimpanzee - the western hill city. We continued south.
Our second wave of units proceeds - shortly we will have another 30 to send south.
One thought - we're assuming that Monkey will hole up in a hill city, but they might be evacuating units to Monkey Island. More likely is defence-bonus armageddon in their new capital.
If a foreign sponsor is going to give Monkey SP and money for upgrading to LB or Muskets, we should block the sea-lane to the oter continent. Astronomy is mandatory, Navigation is not, so another team is unlikely to research Navigation just to supply Monkey. CoD have 1 galley watching that sea lane. A second would block Monkey's supply. Can Python send a galley to that tile to block that possibility? Our naval forces have clashed with the Monkey navy in the south who have inflicted some casualties we have to replace.
Regards,
-Cort
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24-11-2004 23:11
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