18-07-2003 15:14									#61
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The final Frozzy Package

If a player wins a 1x1, he gets 1 pt. Loser gets zip. Bonus point if you win 4x PG.

In 2x2, the winner scores 3 pts, 2nd scores 2pts, 3rd scores 1 pt, and 4th gets zip. 1 bonus point to the winner if he wins 4x PG.

Eliminate all that *9 rubbish Straight points for winning and losing. Everone plays everyone in 2x2 and 1x1. [EDIT---This means everyone in your conference] The teams are diveded into 2 conferences. The winner of each conference plays eachother in a 2x2 game in the final. Winner takes all.

Teams can be picked by users IF they are suitible (e.g. no quinns/berXpert teams). Those who can't find a partner get put into a "out of the hat" draw.

Well... that's what I would like to see this season. Pick out what you like.

	18-07-2003 15:26									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Frozzy The final Frozzy Package

alright, here is the final Mathemagician Package

quote: If a player wins a 1x1, he gets 1 pt. Loser gets zip. Bonus point if you win 4x PG.

If a player wins a 1x1, he (=his team) gets 1 pt. Loser gets nothing rather than a zip file.
only win or loss counts for the primary 'match points'.
4xPG or fast win to count in the secondary 'game points' which act as a tie-breaker.

quote: In 2x2, the winner scores 3 pts, 2nd scores 2pts, 3rd scores 1 pt, and 4th gets zip. 1 bonus point to the winner if he wins 4x PG.

In 2x2 game, winning team gets 2 pts, loser gets 0.
same 'game point' rule as above.

i assume winning team players would take slots 1 and 2 in the end anyway (cause the game wont before that, will it ?), so it would almost always make 5:1 points for the winning team, as opposed to the then almost irrelevant 1x1 games with 1:0.

quote: Eliminate all that *9 rubbish

agreed for match points !
game points (tie-breaker) might depend on it, i dont mind.

quote: Straight points for winning and losing. Everone plays everyone in 2x2 and 1x1. [EDIT---This means everyone in your conference] The teams are diveded into 2 conferences. The winner of each conference plays eachother in a 2x2 game in the final. Winner takes all.

unless a number of players protests, i suggest having them all in one league.

quote: Teams can be picked by users IF they are suitible (e.g. no quinns/berXpert teams). Those who can't find a partner get put into a "out of the hat" draw.

no limit on teams, even quinns/berXpert are beatable. and if not, i guess they deserve the no.1 slot, dont they ?

quote: Well... that's what I would like to see this season. Pick out what you like.

same for me.
lets combine the seperate points as desired.

	18-07-2003 17:38									#63
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I think it's far more logical if we take frozzy-rules in 1x1-games and math-rules in 2x2-games.


...or something like that

	18-07-2003 19:06									#64
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quote: quote: Teams can be picked by users IF they are suitible (e.g. no quinns/berXpert teams). Those who can't find a partner get put into a "out of the hat" draw. no limit on teams, even quinns/berXpert are beatable. and if not, i guess they deserve the no.1 slot, dont they ?

Maybe we could use a point system like they use in chess. Defeating someone more skilled than you earns you more points. Or, tie points to standings. Say, defeat someone below you in the standings, earn one point, same as you, two points, and ahead of you three points.

Also, I'm not sure I understand the "team concept" if they are all one on one games what is the point of teams?

	18-07-2003 19:23									#65
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Pave, how do you imagine using one set of rules for 1x1 games and another for 2x2 games ? oh, was that maybe a joke ?

gumpold,
im strongly against position based adjustments to the points you gain, as in a league, the better player will automatically gain more points as opposed to a ranking list where not everyone plays everyone else. there such a thing makes sense, but not here.

also, there will be (as far as i can see that now) both 2x2 games and 1x1 games.

	19-07-2003 04:04									#66
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As a league, everyone should be "equal". No handicaps or the like. This is a league, not PBEM rankings

I used my idea for 2x2 games because a playr from one team may be wiped out (e.g. invisible barbs early on), doesn't necesarily mean your team will lose the match.

	19-07-2003 12:39									#67
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@Frozzy
while it may happen that one player of the winning team lost early on, i believe it will be too rarely the case to account for it in the primary 'match score'.

	19-07-2003 17:03									#68
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I'd like to participate in the next season too (so you can remove the (P) following my nickname, Frozzy ).

As for the team building process, I'd prefer to continue playing with my partner from last season, David. If the majority votes for random teams, I'll accept that too.

I didn't think through the rating system, but it clearly should account for the whole thing being a team event. The 2on2 matches should definitely outweigh the 1on1s.

Another thing to consider is the time factor. This is not a soccer league, where one match lasts 90 minutes and two matches can be played per week. So imho it will be impossible to use a system, where the participants of a second (or third) series of matches depend on the outcome of the previous series, if you don't want to last a season a full decade. I am still playing one 1on1 and the 2on2 match from the last season (as opposed to one finished 1on1 match)!

	24-07-2003 09:03									#69
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so when/how does this start?

	26-07-2003 08:15									#70
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Ok lets start

We must not have a playoff.
One round is all we can finish.

1) Pick Teams Randomly
(except for the folks that express a desire for a certain
partner. E.G. Rickety and Math)
2) every team plays every team.
3) every player plays 1 member from 1/2 of the teams
in the 1st 1x1 half round
4) every player plays 1 member from the other half of
the teams in the 2nd 1x1 half round.


1x1 Pairings in 1st round will be selected randomly.
1x1 Pairings in the 2nd round will be selected as
soon as a valid pair is available by finishing the
1st round.

Both 1x1 rounds will probably finish before the
2x2's are over.

I think we should keep the full scoring system from
last league.

But if not I think we should do this.

1x1 win = 1 point
2x2 1st = 2 point
2x2 2nd = 1 point

OK?

Is this all of the players?

Hatschy(p)
david42one
checkMate
ricketyclik
mathemagician
Pave
pacman
Protoss72000
yoda
Dr. Doom (p)
FlameFlash
Nimrod
Frozzy
gumpold

	26-07-2003 08:37									#71
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Yay

	26-07-2003 08:39									#72
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i totally agree with checkmate, except that the loser of 2x2 game should get nada. (=spanish for nothing )

	26-07-2003 08:48									#73
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but one more thing is true:
we really should get started now.

i think we should seperately vote on the following:

1.) 1 league for all teams ? (YES / NO)
2.) way of choosing players for the team ? (RANDOMLY / PARTLY RANDOM / TOTALLY FREE - simple majority counts to make the process short)
3.) scoring: one score where a lot of things go in like last season or two seperate scores, like i suggested, the second one as a tie-breaker. (SCORING1 / SCORING2)
4.) depending on the outcome of 3.) the exact way of scoring - to be polled later.

feel free to add anything.

my votes so far:

1.) 1 LEAGUE - YES
2.) teams TOTALLY FREE
3.) seperate scoring - match points and game points -> SCORING2

	26-07-2003 09:19									#74
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1.) 1 LEAGUE - YES
2.) teams TOTALLY FREE
3.) seperate scoring - match points and game points -> SCORING2

	26-07-2003 09:33									#75
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LOL !
rickety... this was meant as a poll, not as a reading test !
but always good to know the copy and paste function of your browser still works.

	26-07-2003 09:36									#76
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1.) 1 LEAGUE - YES
2.) teams RANDOM
3.) Combind scoring - match points and game points

	26-07-2003 09:42									#77
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ok, summing up so far (including checkmate's post above as far as possible)

voters: 4 (checkmate, Mathemagician, ricketyclik, gumpold)

1 League:
YES 4 / NO 0

teams:
RANDOM 2
FREE 2
PARTLY 0

scoring:
SEPERATE 2
COMBINED 1

	26-07-2003 10:27									#78
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quote: Originally posted by Mathemagician i totally agree with checkmate, except that the loser of 2x2 game should get nada. (=spanish for nothing )

What I meant was that the player that is wins the game is 1st. The 2nd highest player on PG is 2nd. So it may be that team A wins but team B player comes in 2nd. In that case it is 2-1 score. If both Team A players are above Team B it is scored as 3-0

	26-07-2003 10:30									#79
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i see. but when is a 2x2 game finished ?

	26-07-2003 10:30									#80
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There are poll threads started already for

scoring method and a thread to request team members.

I think the scoring that was used last time will be used this time without re-inventing. It is too much trouble. However this complex scoring may be used only for tie breaks if it loses in the pole.

I'll post some other polls as suggested shortly.

	26-07-2003 10:33									#81
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I take it this is in the case of x9 turns?

	26-07-2003 10:40									#82
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Well he also had the several values for winning in 100 / 150 and so forth. I think those were a good idea to speed the end. It helped encourage resignations earlier.

	26-07-2003 10:42									#83
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not exactly flexible those polls.
i'd go for bananas anytime.

	26-07-2003 10:43									#84
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But didn't resignations lead to bonus points to the victor?

	26-07-2003 10:43									#85
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When the player in 4th place is determined is the end of the game.

That is if he is annihlated.

	26-07-2003 10:45									#86
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But didn't resignations lead to bonus points to the victor?

Don't think so, but maybe I missed it. That would be counter productive. I don't want that. It will be bonuses for getting you opponent to resign early. But the resignation will be better for the loosing side instead of racking up tons of *9's

	26-07-2003 10:47									#87
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i thought when one team was totally annihilated...
so how was it possible that a team won a game when one of its players got annihilated (first i must assume after what you said) ?

	26-07-2003 10:48									#88
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quote: Originally posted by checkMate When the player in 4th place is determined is the end of the game. That is if he is annihlated.

Or 4xPG 1st place vs 4th place
Or if 4th place resigns (with agreement from teamate)


I actually want to score it by *9's though instead of just the end game score. But if the end game is chosen we will have this rule, game over when one is finished.

	26-07-2003 10:49									#89
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why shouldnt the second player have the chance to play on and win his team the fix 2 match points ?

	26-07-2003 10:54									#90
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We didn't use that method last time. The 2 and 1 was for star nines. I just made it up this time for 2x2 scoring without star 9s. However I think last seasons scoring is basically preferable because it serves many purposes, and we don't have to re-invent it.