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Albert Speer
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Puerile Polemic
Mar 1999
time: 00:29
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i'm against reparations for two main reasons... one, it's opening a huge can of worms where suddenly, every ethnic group could claim reparations from some other group, etc. and it only destroys all the progress that has been made to improve race relations in america...
secondly, reparations has no practical benefit. every black person in america gets a check of what? a hundred dollars or something? even if it exceeded a thousand, 95% of people would just waste it to buy stupid ****... almost nobody would use it to make more money and increase oppurtunities... few would do something like business investment
so no, reparations are a bad idea...
thanks
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Albert Speer
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Puerile Polemic
Mar 1999
time: 00:29
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Odin:
quote:
About the Black pride groups, why do all the Black Muslim groups seem to be Fascist and racist towards us Euro-Americans. |
cough... apparently though the republican party is starting to tap into the black nationalist vote... John Ashcroft for example had Farrakhan as a special guest for dinner at his house two years ago... and that wasnt just one incident...
http://www.umass.edu/rso/colegian/i...y/article2.html
good **** right there... if the republican party can get the black nationalists on their side, it's only a matter of time before the party of lincoln is reborn.
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Albert Speer
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Puerile Polemic
Mar 1999
time: 00:29
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quote:
If Farrakhan's budding relationship with white Republican conservatives developes into a permanent alliance, the real interests of black working class and poor people will be sacrificed. |
haha... crazy leftists...
quote:
Last December, Farrakhan invited Wanniski to dinner at his Chicago home, and the two engaged in a lively five-hour conversation. Wanniski had become convinced that Farrakhan could be converted to embrace Reaganomics - the bankrupt idea that one could drastically cut taxes and at the same time actually raise government revenues. Wanniski later declared Farrakhan was such a willing convert to supply-side economic theory that "he drank it in as if he had just come upon an oasis in the desert." |
Reaganomics as a bankrupt idea... haha
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chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:29
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It's amazing that no matter how many times it's said, people just ignore it and go on spouting how stupid Black people are.
REPARATIONS != FREE MONEY
(size edited down by MtG)
Now, can you remember that?
Reparations are about helping the whole Black community, with better schools, better city services, nicer neighborhoods, job training, etc.
Another thing y'all tend to forget is that there are people who are alive today whose grandparents were slaves (not many, and they're real old, but still). So maybe they weren't slaves. But until less than forty years ago, they were prevented (often on pain of death) from participating fully in this society. What opportunities could they make and give to their children, opportunities that whites take for granted, and that the children of immigrants could take for granted?
In the age of Jim Crow, what could they build for themselves? A system of laws on which the South Africans modeled their own infamous system of injustice, and it ended less than a life time ago. You probably know people whose parents were affected by Jim Crow. What education did they have? What jobs could they get. What could they offer their children but more of the same?
And one hundred years of legal oppression doesn't vanish overnight, just because the Federal government says so. So now they could get better jobs, but with less seniority, so when times are bad, they're the first to go. When they tried to get better education for their children, there were riots by whites against bussing. When the Federal government said that Black people of equal qualtiy must be considered for a job, whites screamed preferential treatment and reverse racism.
And the media still plasters Black crime all over the television. And the police still pull over people for the crime of driving while Black, and still murder people for being Black. When a Black journalist gets caught making up stories, everyone talks about, how the only reason he was allowed to get away with it for so long is because he's Black, when there are far white journalists who get caught and pardoned for the same thing. In fact, at the same newspaper as Jayson Blar is the guy who caused two national scanadals that turned out to be nothing but lies, WhiteWater and Wen Ho Lee. And of course, Black folks at school are automatically assumed to be there on AA. But there's no racism today. 
But reparations is a fool's game. Whites are too racist to allow such a thing. Blacks would be better served talking about economic justice for all, so they at least would have to face all the drek that's filled this thread.
Last edited by MichaeltheGreat on 19-07-2003 at 10:07
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History Guy
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Reads too many books...
Oct 2001
time: 23:29
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Well, I have no problems with equal rights. We're all men, after all.
As Shylock says, "If you ***** us, do not we bleed? If you tickle us, do not we laugh? If you poison us, do not we die?"
And, in the same breath, "...If you wrong us, do we not take revenge?"
Certainly, the legacy of slavery is a very dark one on western history, and history in general. However, there is no reason why white Americans should have to pay black Americans their own little fines because of the sins of the fathers. Such a thing is, in my mind, ludicrous.
I suppose that some black Americans could just as easily fine other black Americans for being members of the tribes that first sold their ancestors into slavery. In England, such fines could just as easily be forced on the white populace.
As it is, the idea is ludicrous. Why should white Americans be forced to pay such fines because of what members of their families did over a hundred years in the past? What is the point of that?
Slavery was a crime against humanity, surely. However, there are no white Americans out there saying, "Heck, sure, slavery was a good thing! I wish we'd never freed those guys! Darn it! Shoot! Abolitionist scumbags! Those lousy, stinky, smelly, stinky, stinky, dumb, smelly, stinky mental midgets!"
In short, why should American taxpayers be forced to pay fines because of the acts of their ancestors?
The idea is idiotic, and a crime against taxpaying citizens. The felons who support such a scheme seem to lack in the old lobe department.
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Albert Speer
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Puerile Polemic
Mar 1999
time: 00:29
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chegitz:
exactly what do you want? checks handed out to every black person, subsidized by a tax on white people? i'm sorry but that will completely ruin all the progress that has been made to improve race relations and like i said, it won't do **** for most people but be some quick cash with which to buy a car or something like that.
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Albert Speer
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Puerile Polemic
Mar 1999
time: 00:29
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Reparations = free money
what the hell? that don't tell me ****...
and blame the philly public school district for my stupidity
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Albert Speer
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Puerile Polemic
Mar 1999
time: 00:29
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quote:
How do you plan on identifying these descendents and whether or not their wealth came from slavery? |
didn't Larry King say that even if your family immigrated in the 20th century, by living in america, you're still benefiting from the remains of the old cotton money and all that... although by that logic, then hispanics and asians would have to pay up too
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chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Berzerker
chegitz -
You can call it apple pie for all I care, it's still thievery. And calling people "racist" (or too racist) for not accepting the immorality of your proposal is the liberal left's version of McCarthyism. |
You're a libertarian. You call taxes theft. You honestly have nothing useful to contribute in this discussion accept to parrot your usual "taxes = theft" argument. If even forcing everyone to pony up for the police is theft, obviously redistributive justice is over the top for people like you.
What I don't get is why libertarians are such hypocrites on the matter. People who buy art that was stolen by the Nazis are forced to return it to the decendents of those from whom the art was stolen. Why don't libertarians believe that the decendants of slaves and American Indians have a right to have returned what was stolen from their ancestors? If something was stolen from your grandfather, you'd want it back, wouldn't you?
BTW, McCarthyism wasn't about polcies. It was about demogogery. It was about whipping people into a frenzy so that the government could crack down on leftists of all stripes, unionists, peaceniks, ban-the bomb types, etc. It destroyed, lives, careers, marriages. People were beaten, executed, and impovrished because of real McCarthyism.
Last edited by chegitz guevara on 19-07-2003 at 09:35
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Albert Speer
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Puerile Polemic
Mar 1999
time: 00:29
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what the hell is "!=" i never heard of that in my life...
in any event so i guess you aren't in favour of reparations? i'm confused.
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Space05us
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quote:
The fact is that reparations would do nothing to imporve the situation of the African Americna community (no, there are no European Americans..but there are italian Americans, Irish Americans, German Americans, all of them with nice parades, ethnic neighborhoods, so on, so if you happen to unfortunitelly be from a boring white people, like Scandinavians or British, your bad luck.). |
When I call myself European American Im partialy making fun of "African" Americans because most people I know call themselves American regardless of thier race, yet you see a black person living in America and they say they are African American regardless of the fact that the relation they have to Africa is as strong as the Relation I have with Europe, it doesnt exist! Sure i call myself Irish, or German, but only jokingly. As far as Im concerned Im an American, the Irish and German blood in me means as much to me as the hot dog I ate for breakfast. And when it comes to "communities" there's no such thing anymore. What constitutes a community? A bunch of people of the same ethnic backround living in the same neighborhood? What about the Chinese guy that lives next door to the African guy that lives next door to the Indian who all live in a neighborhood that is mostly white, erm I mean European. Is that a White community? Oh wait I know how to solve it, give the black people reservations like we did the Indians, oh excuse me I mean "Native" Americans We all know how well they work out.
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Berzerker
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topeka, kansas,USA
May 1999
time: 23:29
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chegitz - quote:
You're a libertarian. You call taxes theft. |
No, just taxes designed to "re-distribute" wealth.
quote:
You honestly have nothing useful to contribute in this discussion accept to parrot your usual "taxes = theft" argument. |
You've been contributing honesty? Certainly not by creating Orwelian euphemisms to hide behind.
quote:
If even forcing everyone to pony up for the police is theft, obviously redistributive justice is over the top for people like you. |
How does supporting the local sheriff = "re-distributive justice"?
quote:
What I don't get is why libertarians are such hypocrites on the matter. People who buy art that was stolen by the Nazis are forced to return it to the decendents of those from whom the art was stolen. |
And you've been quoting libertarians who oppose this? Nope, if you want to accuse us of hypocrisy, provide some proof. What we don't propose is that the descendents of people who fought the Nazis pay for this lost art. No matter how you try to disguise "reparations", it will partially come out of the pockets of people who lost ancestors fighting for the North in the Civil War as well as millions of people who had no relatives here in the time of slavery.
quote:
Why don't libertarians believe that the decendants of slaves and American Indians have a right to have returned what was stolen from their ancestors? If something was stolen from your grandfather, you'd want it back, wouldn't you? |
When you get around to actually seeking reparations from slaveowners and their descendents, then we can have a discussion. Until then, you're just proposing we commit another wrong to heal a past wrong.
Why don't you inform us about your ethnic heritage so we can identify sins committed by your ancestors? Oh, that's right, it doesn't matter if your ancestors sinned against others, they're guilty if they so much as lived in a land where sins were committed by others.
Last edited by Berzerker on 19-07-2003 at 09:53
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MichaeltheGreat
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Apolyton Grand Executioner
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mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:29
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quote:
Originally posted by GePap
I am against reparations, but not for most of, what I would call absurd, rationalizations given against it in this thread. To follow money created by slavery would be much more simple than many of the other cases brought forwards, speically from still fucntioning insititutions, like Banksm insurance companies, whatever.
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If you took that approach, then most of the money trail would go right back to the Yankees who consumed the cotton - mill owners, shippers, bankers, who profited from the results of the slave labor. That is generally a group of people who were slightly higher in the moral cesspool than slaveholders, who were themselves generally a bit off the bottom of the moral cesspool, occupied by the slavetraders, shippers, runaway hunters, and other swamp critters.
By your approach, the one group you'd have a good chance of assigning liability would be the one that was arguably slightly less morally culpable at the least, and the one who would have the best legal defense against creation of an after-the-fact liability in tort.
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19-07-2003 07:10
Look at the big black letters. They spell something. If it's too hard for you to figure out, get a dictionary or find someone literate to explain it to you. 
Don't you realize that because your 5th, 6th, or 7th generation ancestors might have owned a few, (whether they were here or not doesn't matter), you're just rolling around in slave-money? 
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