19-07-2003 10:09									#121
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Incidentally are we going to track down the various African tribes that sold these people into slavery to begin with and demand money from them as well?

	19-07-2003 10:10									#122
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Incidentally are we going to track down the various African tribes that sold these people into slavery to begin with and demand money from them as well?

Nah, we'll just "liberate" the hell out of them.

	19-07-2003 10:12									#123
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quote: Originally posted by Sava Nah, we'll just "liberate" the hell out of them.

I thought we wanted reperations? How does that get the victims their free money?

	19-07-2003 10:30									#124
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again... exactly what does chegitz think should happen?

	19-07-2003 10:32									#125
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc I thought we wanted reperations? How does that get the victims their free money?

Who said anything about free money?

	19-07-2003 10:35									#126
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer again... exactly what does chegitz think should happen?

I believe in communist revolution, Speer. Anything else is just a dream deferred.

	19-07-2003 10:39									#127
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quote: Originally posted by monkspider Who said anything about free money?

That's what reparations are. Now run along and shakedown a few African tribes.

	19-07-2003 10:44									#128
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc That's what reparations are. Now run along and shakedown a few African tribes.

Since when does improved infastructure for the impoverished have anything to do with African tribes?

(sorry DinoD, you are too fun to impersonate. )

	19-07-2003 10:46									#129
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haha good luck with that communist revolution... who may i ask do you think will begin this revolution?

	19-07-2003 10:48									#130
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer haha good luck with that communist revolution... who may i ask do you think will begin this revolution?

Probably Black people who are sick and tired of being treated like **** by white people.

	19-07-2003 10:53									#131
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haha... good luck with that... even Farrakhan has turned into a Reaganite...

	19-07-2003 10:57									#132
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Farrakhan was always a right-winger. Saying that he's become a reganite is like sayng George Bush has become a Reaganite. Or to put it in the words of Miss E, "uuh Duh."

	19-07-2003 10:59									#133
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Sava -

quote: And taxes designed to help people other than yourself.

Can you quote me taking this position? Hmm...another lefty pollutes the thread with their "honest" contribution.

	19-07-2003 11:01									#134
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I'm telling ya AS, you're playing for the wrong team.
What is it about fascism or right-wingism that attracts you to it? You, of all people here, have seen the horrors of a cold, uncaring society that does not look out for it's own, don't you say? So what is it about these philosophies that draw you to them?

	19-07-2003 11:02									#135
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but the point is... the militant black nationalists are the only ones who are going to have any wanting to start a revolution (the vast majority of people are too apathetic) and if all the militant black nationalists are right-wingers where is this black communist revolution going to come from?

	19-07-2003 11:03									#136
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What's wrong, chegits? You want to sneer at white people but won't tell us about your ancestors so we can begin identifying all the people you owe?

	19-07-2003 11:05									#137
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quote: You, of all people here, have seen the horrors of a cold, uncaring society that does not look out for it's own, don't you say?

Yeah, can't we be "caring" like all those communists from the last century?

	19-07-2003 11:14									#138
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monkspider:

i believe that decadence is the main cause of poverty. marxists believe there's some kind of inherent system in capitalism that takes advantage of the poor but i don't believe that. i think capitalism can work and does work for the betterment of the lower classes (and to be honest, it should be noted that i am not concerned with the poor poor as much as the lower middle class; those just above the poverty line is who i consider myself representing)... it may not work as i would like it to in america in 2003 but the basic idea of capitalism, in my opinion, is morally right and it is practical.

the problem is not with economics or wealth disparities like marxists claim... the problem is with drugs, sex, deadbeat fathers, etc. which all cause the problems in the inner city, creating a cycle where drug-filled neighbourhoods don't attract business which in turn forces more people into drug dealing and so on, having an eternal down-ward spiral... moralize the inner city and everything will improve.

i also take issue with leftist destruction of business. philadelphia has too long been dominated by the democratic party (though this appears to be changing as the republican Sam Katz looks to be the favourite for the coming mayoral race) and unions. businesses have hardly flourished in the city as a result of some anti-business policies...

which brings up my response to marxists... what is the good of talking about a fair wage or good working conditions when people don't even have jobs?! get people jobs first and start up small businesses...

a pro-business agenda will cause businesses to enter the city and provide jobs... coupled with a more moral city, things would be great...

therefore, right wing ideas are the means by which we may have better lives in the city.

and frankly, i credit my exposure to right wing ideas off books, tv, internet, and the streets, as the reason why i am not a drug dealer or why i have not had a kid. i believe the more people who become devout right wingers, the fewer problems we will have

and i dont see whats so cold and uncaring about the right wing... it is an idealogical spectrum dominated by religious, moral, and charitable people who emphasis community and goodness to your fellow man...

and by the way you know what... i think it was the Million Man March that influenced me the most... i remember clearly seeing Farrakhan and other speakers on tv and thinking, why is it that only black men believe in fatherhood, respect for women, and other conservative ideas? why can't the million man march be for people of all races? so blame Farrakhan for my right-wingedness

	19-07-2003 11:24									#139
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and chegitz... i meant Farrakhan is turning into a Reaganite economically as in supporting Reaganomics... that is a change in his agenda...

	19-07-2003 11:39									#140
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer monkspider: i believe that decadence is the main cause of poverty. marxists believe there's some kind of inherent system in capitalism that takes advantage of the poor but i don't believe that. i think capitalism can work and does work for the betterment of the lower classes (and to be honest, it should be noted that i am not concerned with the poor poor as much as the lower middle class; those just above the poverty line is who i consider myself representing)... it may not work as i would like it to in america in 2003 but the basic idea of capitalism, in my opinion, is morally right and it is practical. the problem is not with economics or wealth disparities like marxists claim... the problem is with drugs, sex, deadbeat fathers, etc. which all cause the problems in the inner city, creating a cycle where drug-filled neighbourhoods don't attract business which in turn forces more people into drug dealing and so on, having an eternal down-ward spiral... moralize the inner city and everything will improve. i also take issue with leftist destruction of business. philadelphia has too long been dominated by the democratic party (though this appears to be changing as the republican Sam Katz looks to be the favourite for the coming mayoral race) and unions. businesses have hardly flourished in the city as a result of some anti-business policies... which brings up my response to marxists... what is the good of talking about a fair wage or good working conditions when people don't even have jobs?! get people jobs first and start up small businesses... a pro-business agenda will cause businesses to enter the city and provide jobs... coupled with a more moral city, things would be great... therefore, right wing ideas are the means by which we may have better lives in the city. and frankly, i credit my exposure to right wing ideas off books, tv, internet, and the streets, as the reason why i am not a drug dealer or why i have not had a kid. i believe the more people who become devout right wingers, the fewer problems we will have

While you and I may disagree on some things Alb, I actually find your beliefs to be very admirable. While this may sound odd coming from a commie to a fascist, it's actually true. I understand your beliefs quite a bit better now, and believe or not, on a good majority you will find us in basic agreement.

For example, I do agree with you that decadence is the cause of poverty. A decadence that goes beyond some of the specific examples in your post, deadbeat dads and so on, but to the basic root of all forms of decadence, the refusal to treat others as you wish to be treated. For the time I have known you, I have seen you to be on a quest for morality, to live a life more close to God's perfection. Am I right? At somepoint further down this this road you will find that God is a part of all of us, and we're all a part of God. It will be one of the most stunning epiphanies in your life. And with this knowledge will come the realization that whatever harm is done to one of us, is done to all of us. If someone is sad somewhere in the world, that is our problem. If someone is hungry, that is our problem. It is this basic realization that will ultimately lead to the evolved society in which communism will take place. Fortunately for all of us, this day is not far off.

I am really glad that your beliefs have kept you off the streets, and led you to success thus far. That's very cool. I hope that someday soon you will join me and those like me(and in say that knowing that indeed, you will. ) .

	19-07-2003 12:00									#141
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i already know that God is a part of all of us... the missionaries say so and the black nationalists here and all those 5 percenter rappers are even more extreme about it. i think human beings are divine but are kept oppressed through the sins that surround us. and as we are divine, and are like Nietzsche's bridge on the path towards supermen (though most [the 85%] do not know it yet), we are fully capable of helping our ownselves and rising up as true individuals with no need for communism and such social programs. if we are as God, why do we require hand-outs?

to quote the rapper Killah Priest (who by the way, i think is a great man... i read an interview where he was talking about his faith in the nation of islam version of islam and his love for history has kept him living a moral life), "They got our black princess on public assistance to end our existance."

i share this idea that communist ideas only weaken the god within man by stripping him of his strength to provide for himself and his family... if he truly can not then of course the community will help him but through their own accord and by their own means not by government mandate.

the way i see it, the society that you described where if someone is hungry that is our problem, etc. seems to be the society of right-wingers... where people, by their own duty to their fellow man and faith, make the choice to help others, not because the State mandates it

	19-07-2003 12:05									#142
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Chegitz:

You want the g*dd*mn truth, boy? I TIPTOE around anyone who isn't white. TIPTOE, for fear if I look at them wrong, or don't say something just right, they'll think I'm a racist and raise hell.

I'm a white male whose ancestors came over from Europe on immigrant ships in the late 1800s and early 1900s. We were dirt poor, and had to eke a living from the land for a generation or more before we were "comfortably" established. We had to survive the Great Depression and the damnable dust storms, because we had the "misfortune" of trying to live in the Northern Great Plains (and still live there, BTW). We've never been rich, but we certainly have been poor. My family has never owned slaves, and never got involved with anti-black or anti-Native American movements. Our greatest crime, if it can be called that, was basically avoiding *all* movements and just treating people as people, regardless of their race, ethnicity, sexuality or religion.

Is that your idea of white racism? Is that your idea of meting out justice to the stereotypical whites, who must all have it in for minorities?

Want know something else? The media is just like me — we TIPTOE and walk on eggshells when it comes to minorities, for fear they'll sue us if they perceive a story was slanted against them or something.

Racial diversity means JACKSHIT when there's no real understanding or trust because people like you, Chegitz, have no problem stirring up hornet's nests. What is it with folks like that? Do they get some sort of high off of the suffering of others, so long as the ones doing the suffering are white?

Gatekeeper

	19-07-2003 12:06									#143
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quote: But reparations is a fool's game. Whites are too racist to allow such a thing.

Racism has nothing to do with it. You might argue that the taxes=theft argument is ridiculous, but the worst you can say is that it's selfish - not racist.

But you know what? That's fine. You can stick any labels you want on whomever you want. If I fit your definition of "racist", then fine, I'm a racist. Boo-****ing-hoo.

But back in reality land, you're misusing the term "racist" very badly. You see, racists single people out soley because of the color of their skin - much like what you and other reparations are doing in support of reparations, actually

	19-07-2003 12:08									#144
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Oh, and for the record, I support affirmative action, special economic zones, good social programs and other such stimulus items. I'm one of those rare birds — a moderate Republican.

Gatekeeper

	19-07-2003 12:10									#145
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quote: Oh, and for the record, I support affirmative action, special economic zones, good social programs and other such stimulus items.

For the record, I don't, with the possible exception of SEZs, so long as those people aren't able to take advantage of the taxes paid by others - that would be stealing.

I guess I'm just a racist, though

	19-07-2003 12:11									#146
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So am I, DF, so am I. Evil racists, unite!

Gatekeeper

	19-07-2003 12:14									#147
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GateKeeper:

quote: TIPTOE, for fear if I look at them wrong, or don't say something just right, they'll think I'm a racist and raise hell.

thats some paranoid **** right there...


David:

we already established you're a racist... i mean you said how you (even though you're like a kick boxer or something) are scarred to death of a black man walking on the same side of the street as you and you think black women are ugly for 'personal tastes' reasons... i dont know... sounding a bit like one...

	19-07-2003 12:18									#148
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Speer:

**shrug** Actually, my actions more or less depend on what the other party is doing. If they're cheerful and outgoing, I'm more likely to respond in kind. If they're morose or have a less-than-congenial air about them, well, that's when the "tiptoe" response kicks in. That happens more often in the winter months.

Gatekeeper

	19-07-2003 12:21									#149
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer i already know that God is a part of all of us... the missionaries say so and the black nationalists here and all those 5 percenter rappers are even more extreme about it. i think human beings are divine but are kept oppressed through the sins that surround us. and as we are divine, and are like Nietzsche's bridge on the path towards supermen (though most [the 85%] do not know it yet), we are fully capable of helping our ownselves and rising up as true individuals with no need for communism and such social programs. if we are as God, why do we require hand-outs? to quote the rapper Killah Priest (who by the way, i think is a great man... i read an interview where he was talking about his faith in the nation of islam version of islam and his love for history has kept him living a moral life), "They got our black princess on public assistance to end our existance." i share this idea that communist ideas only weaken the god within man by stripping him of his strength to provide for himself and his family... if he truly can not then of course the community will help him but through their own accord and by their own means not by government mandate. the way i see it, the society that you described where if someone is hungry that is our problem, etc. seems to be the society of right-wingers... where people, by their own duty to their fellow man and faith, make the choice to help others, not because the State mandates it

I think you and I may be two sides of the same coin then, my friend.
I am glad that you have discovered mankind's divinity, and the analogy to Nietzsche's supermen is perfect. Most of your rightist beliefs seem to be rooted in your disagreement with state-sponsored benefits for the poor. I am not really a supporter of state handouts either. I don't think that they are evil, it's just that I have no real feelings on them. They can be helpful, and there may be times when they are not. When mankind evolves toward communism, he will also evolve toward a stateless society. So if you want, you can think of me as very anarchist or libertarian in that regard. By the time people figure out what they should really be doing with this life, there will be so much love and compassion in the world that there would never be any need for a state ever again. I call myself a communist because what I work for is a society living for the benefit of all. That is something that I feel that you believe in as well and that's all that really matters.

	19-07-2003 12:25									#150
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I've only read the title, but I think this reperations for African-Americans stuff is crap. You know what? 2,000 years ago I'll bet one of my ancestors was hauling stones for the Romans to build the Colloseum or something. But am I demanding Italy starts paying me money?