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chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:29
  Old Post 19-07-2003 10:40 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by GePap
Personally I think too much is made of just the Uranium claim: eveyrone speaks as if this was the only porblem with the intelligence provided.


If it was the extent of it, I think you'd be right. Most people, however, suspect it is the tip of the iceberg. Even the ever loyal media are begining to smell blood in the water. Uranium is the foot in the door of the closet where they hope to uncover more skeletons.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:29
  Old Post 19-07-2003 10:40
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Alright. This thread is done for.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
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Would everyone stop Fezzing, including Fez.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:29
  Old Post 19-07-2003 10:41 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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Let me provide a reason why I ruined this thread... there has been plenty of them and I am tired of it.

Odin is offline Odin
Prince
Biology Nerd at Minnesota State University Moorhead
Sep 2000
time: 23:29
  Old Post 19-07-2003 10:42
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quote:
Originally posted by mrmitchell
No, no, no, Odin! The excessive stench is coming from you. After all, is Fez ever wrong?



(Bring out the helicoptors... )



*Brings out bazooka*

YOU'RE ALWAYS WRONG!!! POOFaBOOOOOM!!!

All your base belong to us.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:29
  Old Post 19-07-2003 10:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Fez
there has been plenty of them
I already commented on that but no one actually cared (che included).

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:29
  Old Post 19-07-2003 10:45
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Personally, I think ties to Al qaeda were the biggest claim of all, since this "allience" was supposed to be Iraqi's delivery system, and yet, what was the last time anyne reported on any finding on this front?

Or what about claims about UVA's and SCUDS? SCUD's and thie rlauncers are not easy to hid, and did the UVA's just vanish or something?But the thing is Che, most people were more tha willig to buy into far fetched plots coming rrom the admin. to justify this war. The political fallout for Bush is not that high, nuless this porblem can be tied to the bigger problem of post-war insecurity in Iraq. That is were BUsh faces the real danger (if not Tony), not about how this began, but how it will end.

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:29
  Old Post 19-07-2003 10:46
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quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
I already commented on that but no one actually cared (che included).


If you think it is redundant DD, don;t visit it. Simple solution. We are bound to have more than one on the issue, no one wiats for it to get t 500 posts, that is all.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
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  Old Post 19-07-2003 10:47 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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Well, even I knew that the group they were talking about was al-Ansar, which was in Kurdish controled territory (from Frontline World almost six months before the Administration ever mentioned it--we even discussed it in a thread here started by DanS). There's no way the CIA was unaware. So that's just one more lie the Administration knew it was peddling.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:29
  Old Post 19-07-2003 10:49
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quote:
Originally posted by GePap
If you think it is redundant DD, don;t visit it.
I actually tried to make serious comments after venting abit, GePap. Of course, that was before the Fezzing began in force.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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Los Angeles
Apr 2000
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  Old Post 19-07-2003 10:49 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by GePap


If you think it is redundant DD, don;t visit it. Simple solution. We are bound to have more than one on the issue, no one wiats for it to get t 500 posts, that is all.


Well it just increases the stench in here significantly.

Odin is offline Odin
Prince
Biology Nerd at Minnesota State University Moorhead
Sep 2000
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  Old Post 19-07-2003 10:49
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Well, looks like Dean is going to be prez.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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Apr 2000
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  Old Post 19-07-2003 10:51 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Odin
Well, looks like Dean is going to be prez.


How the hell could that be? That idiot is just another George McGovern. Too many people don't like him.

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:29
  Old Post 19-07-2003 10:53
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Well, even I knew that the group they were talking about was al-Ansar, which was in Kurdish controled territory (from Frontline World almost six months before the Administration ever mentioned it--we even discussed it in a thread here started by DanS). There's no way the CIA was unaware. So that's just one more lie the Administration knew it was peddling.


Ansar's whole territory was taken over by about day 5 of the war. After that (and after capturing most of their papers quickly), nothing has been siad of them since. But Ansar was not the only link claimed. Interestingly, a gentleman recently testified to congress about how he believed that Iraq was responsible for 9/11, the original WT center bombing AND Oklahome City. The guy seems to have fans in the Pentagon.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
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  Old Post 19-07-2003 10:55 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Fez
How the hell could that be? That idiot is just another George McGovern. Too many people don't like him.


Except of course that Dean is a fiscal conservative. It's only conservatives (and the DLC, which amounts to the same thing) who are bleating that Dean is McGovern reincarnated. They are hoping to scare Dems into voting for one of the lesser candidates. Dean's the only one with the balls to take on Bush directly, and he's exactly what the Democrats have been allergic to for twenty years, a man with a spine and integrity.

But I'm not gonna vote for him.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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Los Angeles
Apr 2000
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  Old Post 19-07-2003 10:57 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Except of course that Dean is a fiscal conservative.


No he isn't.

quote:
Dean's the only one with the balls to take on Bush directly, and he's exactly what the Democrats have been allergic to for twenty years, a man with a spine and integrity.

But I'm not gonna vote for him.


Unfortunately for you, he is not well liked.

Berzerker is offline Berzerker
Emperor
topeka, kansas,USA
May 1999
time: 23:29
  Old Post 19-07-2003 11:10
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quote:
Well I heard Zimbabwe might be a good place for his little revolution...


Did anyone ask the Zimbabweans how they felt?

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
Los Angeles
Apr 2000
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  Old Post 19-07-2003 11:11 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Berzerker


Did anyone ask the Zimbabweans how they felt?


Oh man.. I am sorry...

Maybe.... ummm.. is there an uninhabited island in the Indian or pacific ocean somewhere?

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
Apolyton Grand Executioner
mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:29
  Old Post 19-07-2003 11:29
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Except of course that Dean is a fiscal conservative.


Which of course explains why Vermont is the only state that even challenges California for highest aggregate tax levels.

quote:

But I'm not gonna vote for him.


Then you deserve four more years of Bush and Ashcroft, since that's who you will be voting for, in effect. And sorry, but it ain't gonna bring your mythical revolution any closer to this universe.

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:29
  Old Post 19-07-2003 12:29
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From the NY imes of today. If only the admin. hired better staff, maybe some that understood reading comprehension, thing would all be better:

quote:

C.I.A. UPROAR
White House Tells How Bush Came to Talk of Iraq Uranium
By RICHARD W. STEVENSON


WASHINGTON, July 18 — The White House today set out its most detailed explanation yet of how disputed intelligence about Iraq's weapons program made it into President Bush's State of the Union address, contradicting a crucial element of the version of events provided by the Central Intelligence Agency.

In a briefing for reporters, a senior administration official said the White House had changed an initial draft of the speech to make it more credible by attributing the assertion that Iraq had been trying to acquire uranium in Africa to a public British intelligence dossier.

The official said the change had been made after internal White House deliberations about the best way to present the information and not, as intelligence officials have said, in response to concerns raised by the C.I.A. about the credibility of intelligence reports that Iraq had tried to purchase uranium in Niger.

As part of today's briefing, the White House declassified part of its main prewar intelligence summary on Iraq's weapons programs. The document, a National Intelligence Estimate, encompasses the findings of the main intelligence agencies. The document noted reports that Iraq was trying to acquire uranium in Africa but included a warning from the State Department that the reports were "highly dubious."

White House officials said the document was one of those drawn on by speechwriters as they put together the State of the Union address. The official who gave the briefing today said Mr. Bush was unaware of the State Department's skepticism.

The president "is not a fact checker," the official said.

The document also noted that the intelligence agencies had "low confidence" in some of its conclusions, including when Saddam Hussein might use weapons of mass destruction, whether he would try to attack the United States and whether he would provide chemical or biological weapons to Al Qaeda. Administration officials had cited all those possibilities in building a case for the war.

In a letter to the Senate Intelligence Committee last October, George J. Tenet, the director of central intelligence, said Mr. Hussein "probably would become much less constrained in adopting terrorist actions" if he were attacked. But Mr. Tenet did not write that his agency had a low level of confidence in its ability to form such an assessment.

In his State of the Union address, on Jan. 28, Mr. Bush made a case for why Iraq was a threat to the Mideast, the United States and the world.

He referred to what he said were attempts by Iraq to rebuild its nuclear weapons program and said, "The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa."

But the reliability of the intelligence reports was later undermined when letters that had been a critical part of the evidence turned out to have been forged. This month the White House said it had been a mistake to include the assertion.

The White House held the briefing today and declassified part of the intelligence findings in an effort to quell a political furor over whether Mr. Bush misled the American public by exaggerating the threat from Iraq. Democrats have been using the issue to question Mr. Bush's credibility not only on the war but also on domestic policy issues.

The administration's latest account left some questions unanswered and raised some new ones.

The White House's account left unresolved exactly why Mr. Bush included the reference to uranium. Not only had the State Department expressed misgivings, but the C.I.A. had expressed reservations to British authorities before Britain published its intelligence dossier last fall, according to Jack Straw, the British foreign secretary.

In particular, the administration's account of how it settled on the wording in Mr. Bush's speech was at odds with accounts from the C.I.A.

The senior administration official said the White House originally drafted the speech to say "we know" a series of things about Mr. Hussein's weapons programs, like "We know that Hussein had materials sufficient to produce more than 38,000 liters of botulinum toxin," and "We also know that he has recently sought to buy uranium in Africa."

The decision to mention uranium came from White House speechwriters, not from senior White House officials, the official said.

The official said that on the day before the speech, the White House team drafting it "decided that it would be much more credible if we could explain to the public how we knew it — not just assert it, but to fully disclose as much as possible how we knew this information."

As a result, the official said, the speech was changed to attribute each statement to a specific source.

The official said that Bob Joseph, the director for nonproliferation at the National Security Council, then asked the C.I.A. to approve that portion of the speech. "It was cleared to use the British as a citation," the official said.

The intelligence agency did not mention to Mr. Joseph that it pushed Britain not to use the uranium information in its public document, the official said.

The C.I.A. has provided a different account.

On July 11, Mr. Tenet said agency officials raised "several concerns about the fragmentary nature of the intelligence" with White House officials. "Some of the language was changed," Mr. Tenet said.

Other intelligence officials have recounted a back-and-forth between Mr. Joseph and Alan Foley, a C.I.A. expert on banned weapons, in which Mr. Foley recommended making no reference to uranium purchases.

DAVOUT is offline DAVOUT
King
AUERSTADT
Jun 2002
time: 05:29
  Old Post 19-07-2003 12:39
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quote:

The president "is not a fact checker," the official said.


May I suggest that he hires one ?

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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Apr 2000
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  Old Post 19-07-2003 12:52 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by DAVOUT


May I suggest that he hires one ?




Do I smell an opening? Gah... the president won't hire a 19 year old...

Dis is offline Dis
Emperor
Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:29
  Old Post 19-07-2003 12:55 Visit Dis's homepage!
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why can't you pansies just admit Saddam needed an ass-kicking.

I'm tired of all this talk about aluminum tubes and such. Who cares? Saddam needed to get *****-slapped.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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  Old Post 19-07-2003 12:56 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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Dissident:

On a very damn serious note, I myself would of took a gun to Saddams head and pulled the damn trigger. I don't care what others around here say.

Dis is offline Dis
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Feb 2000
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It's funny that when you elect (well they can debate that if they want) a man who's father was targetted for assassination by Saddam Hussein, people are perplexed as to why George Bush would want to bring him down.

Although I would prefer G.W. just came right out and said it. We all know how politicians are. They are the way they are.

Alan Combs said something interesting today about how it was dignified how Kobe Bryant came right out and said he committed adultry. Now maybe if Bill Clinton did that, all that impeachment fiasco wouldn't have happened.

But unfortunately politicians like to be this way. I think they listen too much to their advisors and just don't speak from the heart. The media is partly to blame for this I think. Surely it wasn't as bad as this during FDR's time.

MrFun is offline MrFun
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Nov 2000
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  Old Post 19-07-2003 20:10 Visit MrFun's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
I already commented on that but no one actually cared (che included).


Like you're really surprised no one cared about your comment?

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
King
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:29
  Old Post 19-07-2003 20:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Dissident
It's funny that when you elect (well they can debate that if they want) a man who's father was targetted for assassination by Saddam Hussein, people are perplexed as to why George Bush would want to bring him down.


The "assassination attempt" against Bush Sr. is not proven. The Kuwaitis were pretty eager to get at Saddam any way possible, and the assassination story smells pretty rotten.

But this certainly fits into the administration wanting to make up whatever justification it can.

Kidicious is offline Kidicious
Settler
Diety of Kidiverse
Mar 2003
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  Old Post 19-07-2003 20:39 Visit Kidicious's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
Then you deserve four more years of Bush and Ashcroft, since that's who you will be voting for, in effect. And sorry, but it ain't gonna bring your mythical revolution any closer to this universe.

I won't vote for any of the Democrats. The're the ones who deserve four more years of Bush, but I'm still hoping that this will be the years for third parties.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:29
  Old Post 19-07-2003 20:39
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Che, if you create a thread every time the Bushies lie, 'Poly's server is going to die!

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
King
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:29
  Old Post 19-07-2003 20:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Kidicious

I won't vote for any of the Democrats. The're the ones who deserve four more years of Bush, but I'm still hoping that this will be the years for third parties.


It's people like you who gave us Bush in the first place.

 
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