25-07-2003 16:08									#121
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by The Templar No, the deregulation scheme was the brainchild of Pete "Git These Damn Mezkins Outta Here" Wilson. Then Enron and other Bush buddies played the deregulated system. Davis pretty much signed those contracts under duress while CA was having sever power outages. The present contracts, at the time they were signed, were needed to keep the power flowing. "Scapegoat", Japher? Why scapegoat Davis when the whole thing was a regulatory failure caused by Wilson and exaserbated by Bush. Place blame where it belongs. Don't get me wrong - Davis is the sort of democrat that makes me vote Green. By don't hang this albatros around his neck. This turkey was Republican in origin.

Yea that's right. Because you see in California the Governor is a dictator with absolute power to make law and enforce it. The legislature is forced by law to vote however the governor says, and are prohibited by law from any attempt to regulate, advise, investigate or even make their opinion known. Even when numerous economists complain that this semi-deregulation plan was going to create a shortage for certain, all the legislature could do was meekly accept it along with their campaign contributions.

Your post contains less than half of the story. There is more than enough blame to go around, and Davis and the legislature own more than half of it.

	25-07-2003 20:26									#122
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Sik, I agree. Even if the de-reg scheme was flawed, the crisis was preventable if Gray Davis acted promptly when the spot costs began to regularly exceed price. Instead, he diddled for months. Even when the rolling blackouts began, he did nothing but call for Washington to help by mandating lower prices from out-of-state suppliers. When finally our utilities financial resources were totally exhausted and were declaring bankrupcy, Davis acted. But what he did helped mightily to further depress the business climate leading to lower tax revenues, etc.

Surveys show that Davis's approval rating is 20%. Even a majority of Democrats want him gone. His refusal to leave at this juncture is arrogance beyond belief.

	25-07-2003 20:31									#123
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I liked Pete Wilson, I actually wish he would run again. At least then our state wasn't over run with illegal mexican collecting welfare, voting, and clogging up our educational system with ESL students... Wilson was all for immigration, just not the illegal kind. He was a big supporter of Farmer Labor Unions which employed mostly Mexicans, no immigrated Mexicans... Since his leave, the farming industry has become more big buis and less family ran, and thus, less Mexicans...

quote: "Scapegoat", Japher? Why scapegoat Davis when the whole thing was a regulatory failure caused by Wilson and exaserbated by Bush. Place blame where it belongs.

Regulation vs. Deregulation would be a good debate... There will always be price hikes when an industry is deregulated, yet I would expect a lot less if the matter were properly handled... Dems are always good at PTB...

	25-07-2003 21:05									#124
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

californians have justr proved they're nuts. We got a massive deficit, we ain't got no budget. Let's spend millions on another election. Yeah, let's elect people and then keep them busy trying to get re-elected.

	25-07-2003 21:09									#125
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Millions is nothing compared to the billions that are going down the toilet in the Sac...

	25-07-2003 21:27									#126
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Ya, and then you got the politicians spending all their time dealing with tryijng to get re-elected. Re-election all the time, 24 hours a day. Great way to run a government.

	25-07-2003 21:31									#127
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Well, that ain't just a problem in California...

	25-07-2003 21:38									#128
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Tingkai, California always seems to be the leader in advancing democracy. We have the initiative and referendum procedure and the recall procedure that puts real power directly into the hands of the people. Yes I know that the founding fathers of the US thought that granting such power to people was frought with danger. But must admit that I am personally a great fan. Today, most significant "legislation" is passed into law through the initiative and referendum procedure which allows the people a direct up or down vote on the issue.

We are entering new territory here with the Davis recall. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out. But the fact that we can recall an incompetent such a Davis, in my opinion, is a great and important right of the people of California.

	25-07-2003 21:40									#129
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Japher Millions is nothing compared to the billions that are going down the toilet in the Sac...

I'm honestly very pissed off at the State Democratic party right now. The Republicans offered a fairly responsible budget which was balanced and only cut spending about 4% yet the State Democratic Party decided to kill that idea because they felt most of the blame would fall on the Republicans if the budget wasn't passed. They felt they could hold out and get tax increases instead of budget cuts.

I don't mind restoring the tax bracket for the over $200k set which was eliminated five years ago when things were going great. Especially since the tax cut law explicitely stated it would automatically be repealed if the state got into financial difficulties. Still, Davis has been acting like the candy man and has given money to EVERYONE because he knew last year's election was going to be tight and he had to keep everyone happy in order to win. You can't spend money you don't have forever. Eventually you have to say no to someone and balance the budget.

I'd really like to see an Public Proposition demanding a balanced budget amendment to the State's Constitution. If we combine that with the 2/3 vote required for tax increases then we're very likely to lose the massive amount of politically motivated pork which Sac lives on.

	25-07-2003 21:44									#130
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Ned Tingkai, California always seems to be the leader in advancing democracy.

Look, in democratic countries, you get to elect your leader every four to five years. If your guy doesn't get in, tough. Work to get him elected the next time around.

These recall thingys are a waste of time. It's just a buncvh of poor losers. If the election is fair than you lose fair and square.

What the Californians have done is paralyze the government. It's a bloody waste of money.

Let's say a republican gets elected as gov. How hard will it be for the dems to get a recall campaign? Not hard at all. If the dems win then we get another Republican recall attempt.

Bloodly waste of time.

	25-07-2003 21:47									#131
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: What the Californians have done is paralyze the government. It's a bloody waste of money.

Better to stop a ship from sinking then to just let it sink.

I will agree, Tingkai, that the "recall cat" is definitly out of the bag... This may become a trend, that will cause time to be wasted. Yet, in this case, I believe not. Also, why can we kick a president out of office but not a governor?

	25-07-2003 23:37									#132
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Tinkai, It's not that easy to get a recall petition for governor. It costs a lot of money. I doubt the Dems would do this against a Republican governor simply for harrasment purposes immediately after he himself had won a recall vote.

	25-07-2003 23:45									#133
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Tingkai Let's say a republican gets elected as gov. How hard will it be for the dems to get a recall campaign? Not hard at all. If the dems win then we get another Republican recall attempt. Bloodly waste of time.

I agree this is a slippery slope. the recall was originally intended for people who were corrupt and were using their office to commit crimes, but, now we have the Republicans turning it into a way to keep running elections until they win.

This law will have to be changed or else we'll see recalls happening everytime a politician's poll numbers go down. Poll numbers go down when politicians act responsible and cut spending to prevent deficits so this could very well be the kiss of death for fiscal responsability in the state.

	26-07-2003 00:38									#134
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Oerdin so this could very well be the kiss of death for fiscal responsability in the state.

You shouldn't worry. Judging by the size of California's debt, they killied it long ago.

	26-07-2003 00:40									#135
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

The debt didn't state until last year! Believe it or not we were in record surplusses.

	26-07-2003 00:42									#136
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

That's quite a stunning indictment of Davis.

	26-07-2003 00:46									#137
	Suffering from ads?

I hope Arnie doesn't run. I'd much rather have a Terminator 4 than a fiscally responsible California.

	03-08-2003 10:22									#138
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Leading Democrats are now calling for Diane Feinstein to run and for Gray Davis to resign. They want one Democrat on the ballot, but not Davis!

Go Diane!

Increasingly it looks like it will be Feinstein vs. the Terminator. Good race.

http://apnews.excite.com/article/20.../D7SM73R00.html

	15-09-2003 11:32									#139
	Game Show Time Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Alright, how many of the sistas in the choir do you think Clinton made a pass at?

Attachment: clinton.jpg
This has been downloaded 32 time(s).

	15-09-2003 11:44									#140
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Actually Davis's numbers are up. Right now it's showing an even 50-50 split amoung likely voters and with Busamonte edging out Arnie as the replacement if Davis is recalled. There's talk of McCintock resigning in order to insure Bustamonte doesn't win.

Bustamonte is exactly like Davis. He's already said he'll raise taxes to the tune of $10 billion and keep the increase on the car tax (worth $8 billion) plus he's hide bound for the unions which have bank rolled his campaign.

	15-09-2003 11:46									#141
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Does Bustamonte point fingers at everyone like Davis?

	15-09-2003 11:47									#142
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I've heard him do it several times. Bustamonte's favorite tactic is to call everyone who disagrees with him a racist and/or anti-immigrant.

You should have seen the name calling frenzy old bustie worked himself into during the recent debate on whither or not to allow illegal aliens to be allowed driver's liciences. I also remember him crying racism last year when the lima deltas passed a law allow illegal aliens in state tuition and student aid at state owned universities.

	15-09-2003 11:48									#143
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Man, that's even worse.

	15-09-2003 14:01									#144
	Increase Your PM Length

I wonder how they're going to call Arnie anti-immigrant?

Racism it is...

	15-09-2003 15:01									#145
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

They already have.

He came out against the driver's licenses for illegals, and he was promptly disinvited from some hispanic pride parade -- where he was initially a grand marshal.

	15-09-2003 16:59									#146
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Actually Davis's numbers are up. Right now it's showing an even 50-50 split amoung likely voters and with Busamonte edging out Arnie as the replacement if Davis is recalled. There's talk of McCintock resigning in order to insure Bustamonte doesn't win. Bustamonte is exactly like Davis. He's already said he'll raise taxes to the tune of $10 billion and keep the increase on the car tax (worth $8 billion) plus he's hide bound for the unions which have bank rolled his campaign.

If you are using that LA times poll I dont trust it very much. There polls are way out of wack with what every other poll says that the recall has arounf 55% to 58% support. Anther problem with many of these polls, no one knows how the turn out will be because of the special election. So I guess the only way we will know for sure is on the day of the vote I suppose.

	15-09-2003 17:00									#147
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: They already have. He came out against the driver's licenses for illegals, and he was promptly disinvited from some hispanic pride parade -- where he was initially a grand marshal.

	15-09-2003 17:00									#148
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Bustamante

Arnold

German influence worldwide

	15-09-2003 17:01									#149
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

German-American influence

Eurocom-German influence

	15-09-2003 17:02									#150
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Chicom-American influence

( being a chicom with everyday facial expression)