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LDiCesare
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La Ferté sous Jouarre France
Jan 2001
time: 05:29
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Let's just stop eating cows, and free them into the wilderness so they can be shot if they start eating our corn fields, starve to death, get diseases or get eaten by the few bears and wolves that remain.
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Vesayen
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"Vesayen you might as well yell at everybody in the world... You're telling me you've never bought some nike shoes, or some reebok sweater hmmm?"
Yeap, exactly right. I am very carefull about everything I buy. It's not as hard as you think.
"Slave labour by the way is bad, but you don't have to exaggerate. In some areas the work these companies provide (for the wrong reasons of course) is the only means of earning money. If you would move out those factories the people would object to that as they would have nothing now to earn money with. I know it's not fun if you're a child and you have to work in a factory or something all day, but it's better than nothing."
No, slavery is slavery......... is a slave better off being given a piece of horse **** every night to eat, or being free but having to find another means of sustinence?
"The idea is to gradually improve the situation there, rising the wages after a while etc, unfortunately that's something Nike and Reebok have to do, and they're not always inclined to do that!"
That smacks REDICULOUSLY of imperialism so dont even try to use that rationale....... "The natives cant handle themselves, so we'll manage them now, but gradually we'll raise them to our level!" ask the native americans, africans and native australians how that worked out! I dont think you'll like there response very much.
"This doesn't mean I don't care for slavery or other things, but I think you are confusing things here, being a veggie hasn't got anything to do with ignoring poor people.
About the leather jacket things. Leather is a byproduct and yes it would as a matter of fact go to waste anyway. Nothing wrong with leather... You can make leather out of human skin as well, I have no problems with that, just like ppl can use my organs when I suddenly die in a car crash or something.. won't need my body anymore anyway."
Your trying to wave your hand, say "pah!" and expect that to be justification, it isnt. The problem is quite simply, and one you havent addressed, that you are concerning yourself with animal suffering over human suffering, which seems barbaric.
quote:
Originally posted by Drogue
That you would judge people at all because of what they eat is incredibly prejudiced, like judging someone on their religion. Why should we care about human rights over animal rights? Why can't we care about both too? If someone doesn't shop at GAP, but is a vegetarian, is that alright by you then? |
Why should we care about humans rights over animal rights? Because we are humans, and they are animals......... I'm NOT saying we shouldnt care about animals-we should, im a big animal rights activist, my point is that if you care about animal rights, you should care about human rights as well, and give at LEAST as much attention to humans rights as animals. If someone is consistent with their aproach(vegitarian AND dosent buy slave made goods) then they have my UTMOST respect, I just cant stand the hypocrits who only do it half way, and the wrong way(with animals over humans).
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Spiffor
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CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:29
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Animals do have fear before being slaughtered, when they see other animals getting slaughtered right before them. It's nNot a little fear, but the worst fear a live being can have, because it goes straight against its survival instinct.
I've heard that very many cows crap right before being slaughtered, some others passing out, and IIRC, some even do die of fear in the mass slaughterhouses. These places are on par with death camps, and the animals there understand it perfectly.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a veggie, and I don't intend to be. However, to claim the animals don't suffer or don't understand what is happening is plain wrong. The suffering in these places is terrible, and could be alleviated with a few cheap changes : larger cattle wagons, smaller and more spread slaughterhouses (reduces cattle stress as well as transportation time), lower slaughtering speed, so that the following beasts cannot see or hear the previous one die.
The end price would hardly be higher, since most of meat price comes from transportation, distribution and profits.
About humane treatment of animals during their life : indeed, a chicken that is not raised in batteries has a much better taste than a battery one, and is healthier: battery chickens (or any other animal) do not exercize and end up with too much fat and amorphed muscle. They are much worse than healthy chicken who got to run in the backyars. Unfortunately, these chicken are also much, much more expansive to raise, and can only be bought by middle classes or better who happen to take care of their diet.
The way you feed the animals is very important too. Because farmers went for the cheapest crap, we ended up with the mad cow disease. The end taste can change as well, although it is harder to detect than the end taste between a healthy and a battery animal.
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Jon Miller
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go vegeterrians
Jon Miller
(Who is vege because he can't stand the thought of eating meat)
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Jon Miller
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eat soy
Jon Miller
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CerberusIV
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Well, I don't eat bits of dead mammals because they make me feel bad. Somthing to do with all the crap that is injected into and fed to the animals before killing them. I do eat fish though.
What I really loathe, and possibly what was the original point of this thread, are the veggie cretins who want EVERYONE to stop eating meat to satisfy their own pshchological inadequacies. These people should be shipped off to the Falkland Islands or somewhere similar and left to fend for themselves.
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Traianvs
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Belgium, land of plenty (corruption)
Jan 2000
time: 06:29
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quote:
Yeap, exactly right. I am very carefull about everything I buy. It's not as hard as you think. |
don't bullshit me, you don't even know that a lot of things you buy are made through slave labour; it doesn't say in big red letters that it's made through slave labour you know..
quote:
No, slavery is slavery......... is a slave better off being given a piece of horse **** every night to eat, or being free but having to find another means of sustinence? |
Being free... sure they would be free, but they would have nothing to eat and would just starve to death just like they do in Africa (most slave labour is done in Asia, India, Pakistan and that stuff, and by by ethnic minorities all over the world). The meaning of slavery now isn't quite what you would think it is... The company doesn't "own" the employee, it just lets him work for a very low wage, in a bad environment etc..
It's been done before dude, you can't just free millions from this sort of slavery and give them nothing in return... That's the difficult part of fighting this problem. You'll see that even though they earn like $2/day they won't want to quit their job because they have no other option. You know, overpopulation... too much human pigs on this planet.
quote:
That smacks REDICULOUSLY of imperialism so dont even try to use that rationale....... "The natives cant handle themselves, so we'll manage them now, but gradually we'll raise them to our level!" ask the native americans, africans and native australians how that worked out! I dont think you'll like there response very much. |
Dude that is totally different. The new Americans took away the land of the native ones, the new Australians took away the land of the aboriginals etc... We're not trying to take over India you know... Look I don't support these big companies, on the other hand they should pay up a lot more. You don't get what I'm saying...
Why do you think people go to work in these factories, because they haven't got any alternative.. if they had one, they wouldn't work there. If Nike could spend a few billions less on advertising with Beckham and start paying their workers a bit more, that would be a step in the good direction. That is the problem, they have to take the initiative by treating them better!
quote:
Your trying to wave your hand, say "pah!" and expect that to be justification, it isnt. The problem is quite simply, and one you havent addressed, that you are concerning yourself with animal suffering over human suffering, which seems barbaric. |
This is your (and several others) problem man.. Your sense of superiority over other living things. It's not because you are able to thing abstractly that you are worth more... It's a ridiculous point of view because there isn't such a thing as being worth more than another animal. Like that animal is not worth more than you. It's you who seems barbaric to me...
Now was it Ghandi that said you could rate a civilization by looking at the way they treat their animals?... A civilization with the best technology or the biggest population isn't necessarily the best one you know..
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27-07-2003 17:03
beans. 
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