29-07-2003 01:35									#121
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident blah! blah! growing plants takes up more space. *yawn* Show me a plant that has as much protein (and B12 for that matter) as meat and tastes just as good.

Go to the store. In the frozen food section are meatless burgers which taste like the real thing. They are made from wheat gluten. They also have chickenless patties. Finally, baked tufu has an incredibly meatlike texture such that it has fooled confirmed carnivores to whom I've given it.

	29-07-2003 01:38									#122
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac According to my biology teacher from a few years back, there's a certain vitamin that the human body doesn't produce in sufficient quality out of itself, and which can only be found in meat. You need to eat meat at least once a month to stay completely healthy, so he said.

He was wrong. He was likely referring to B-vitimins, which can easily be gained from eating one of two different types of yeast. What is true is that if you aren't careful, and you don't eat balanced vegitarian meals, you can get malnutrician. Vegitarianism forces you to think about what you're eating, and if you jst like to grab something and eat on the go, it's not a good lifestyle for you.

	29-07-2003 01:39									#123
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Soy patties have definately gotten better over the years -- though my favorite remains black bean patties.

	29-07-2003 01:40									#124
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quote: Originally posted by OliverFA I don't eat vegetables because I cannot stand the thought of these poor beings being killed just to give me something to eat

Gee, that was funny the first time I heard it, about twnety years ago.

	29-07-2003 01:43									#125
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quote: Originally posted by Gibsie the number of people who actually die from eating infected meat is still so low that it gets reported in newspapers. So bleh

Assuming you aren't referring to just Mad Cow, many thousnads of Americans die every year from food poisoning, generally from undercooked meat.

	29-07-2003 01:48									#126
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quote: Originally posted by Osweld Cows Chickens and Pigs are all man-made species for the purpose of farming.

Alright the...consider the American White-Tailed Deer.

Due to a combination of uraban development and rural "varmant shooting", the deer had nearly disappeared from New Jersey by the turn of the century. However, because people wanted venison, they decided to try and save the deer. At first, they had a moratorium on hunting, and brought in deer from other regions, to create a healthy and diverse breeding stock. As time went on, they re-introduced hunting, and regulated it such that the herds would not be over-hunted.

Today, white-tailed deer are everywhere in New Jersey, all because we like venison.

	29-07-2003 02:10									#127
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Vegans have no appreciation for plant life.

	29-07-2003 02:30									#128
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Assuming you aren't referring to just Mad Cow, many thousnads of Americans die every year from food poisoning, generally from undercooked meat.

But that's an argument for cooking meat thoroughly, not stopping eating meat altogether.

	29-07-2003 02:42									#129
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Most herbaceous plants grown for food (grains, corn, etc) are annuals, they would die if not harversted anyway.

Che, one can raise the herbivourous fish to feed the carnivorous fish.

	29-07-2003 02:50									#130
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Actually, many food plants couldn't survive without humans anyway. Corn (maize), for example, cannot reproduce without human intervention. We have to remove the husks in order for the seeds to grow.

Odin, the oceans were fine until about forty years ago, when factory fishing apeared. The Pacific Halibut is the major exception, which was nearly fished to extinction in the 1920s, and is now the best managed wild fish stock in the world. I believe in managing wild stocks, not replacing them with factory farming methods.

	29-07-2003 03:08									#131
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Actually, many food plants couldn't survive without humans anyway. Corn (maize), for example, cannot reproduce without human intervention. We have to remove the husks in order for the seeds to grow.

Those gigantic thingamajig is not natural to begin with because we have been genetically engineering for thousands of years.

Cow couldnt survive without humans cause we genetically engineered them to be total retards and fat. Same thing.

So corn is a bad example.

quote: Most herbaceous plants grown for food (grains, corn, etc) are annuals, they would die if not harversted anyway.

Not sure but arent grains and corn the seeds of the plant? If we are eating the seeds i dont see how this would benefit the plants.

Exception of fruits (which are made by the plants for animals to be eating) it is not advantageous for plants to be consumed by animals.

EDIT: Minus F words

	29-07-2003 03:15									#132
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quote: Originally posted by Zero Cow couldnt ****ing survive without humans cause we genetically engineered them to be total retards and fat. Same thing.

Except, of course, for all the wild cattle. Both Florida and Texas had huge herds of wild cattle because of the disrution of ranching during the civil war. Florida even still has a wild herd. I dunno about Texas.

	29-07-2003 03:15									#133
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oh and may I add one more thing:

Farming is a natural thing. Ants farm and milk (forgot insect name) for their milk, and as I said, Cows have farm of bacteria living in their gut that they feed with grass only to be consumed when they grow in numbers.... so I dont see why you have something agst farming animals. Oh no the cruelty! We should charge those ants with lawsuits

	29-07-2003 03:23									#134
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara quote: Originally posted by Zero Cow couldnt ****ing survive without humans cause we genetically engineered them to be total retards and fat. Same thing. Except, of course, for all the wild cattle. Both Florida and Texas had huge herds of wild cattle because of the disrution of ranching during the civil war. Florida even still has a wild herd. I dunno about Texas.

Duh! Obviously if they're wild animals/plants can live w/o humans. What was the point was bringing this up? Thanks for stating the obvious.

EDIT: I cuss too much, when its not really necessary. (took profanities out)

	29-07-2003 21:25									#135
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quote: Originally posted by Zero Duh! Obviously if they're wild animals/plants can live w/o humans. What was the point was bringing this up? Thanks for stating the obvious.

They had previously been domesticated. They went wild when they were untended during the Civil War.

	29-07-2003 21:52									#136
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A few years ago, someone at the Department of Psychology of Oxford University was doing research on eating disorders. They wanted people to fill in some questionaires and asked for volunteers who had ever been:

quote: anorexic, bulimic, or vegetarian

Don't know what results they came up with.

	29-07-2003 21:54									#137
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk Alright the...consider the American White-Tailed Deer. Due to a combination of uraban development and rural "varmant shooting", the deer had nearly disappeared from New Jersey by the turn of the century. However, because people wanted venison, they decided to try and save the deer. At first, they had a moratorium on hunting, and brought in deer from other regions, to create a healthy and diverse breeding stock. As time went on, they re-introduced hunting, and regulated it such that the herds would not be over-hunted. Today, white-tailed deer are everywhere in New Jersey, all because we like venison.

But the reason they where facing extinction in the first place was humans. We chose not to kill them all off so that we could continue to eat them. How benevolent of us.

The ecoystem there is as damaged as ever, keeping them around to eat hasn't helped anything but humans.

	30-07-2003 04:02									#138
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quote: Originally posted by obiwan18 People are animals too. Even if they are human 'pigs' should we not care for them and treat them well?

Like I said, sometimes a species gets out of control and dominates the region. This is usually because we introduce them somewhere else, because normally nature can handle these things; and they don't happen on such a large scale. That's when we have to do something to restore the ecological balance. Humans are far worse, instead of controlling just a region they control pretty much the whole world which puts an enormous strain on anything else living on this planet.

Problems can have very simple causes btw; we don't always actively harm them, also passively.. For example people that keep lights on in their garden all night, or factories that keep bright lamps on during the night seriously disrupts night animals and can have quite some repercussions.. Simple example.

I don't think you can deny that we have a light overpopulation right?

Again I have no problem if we have to hunt down a certain species if we need to do that; I don't like butchering animals, but there are times it just needs to be done. I know you think we can't start butchering people (actually we do!! ) but you know.. we just live way too long; we were not supposed to get so old... In prehistoric times old people as we know them now wouldn't exist because they wouldn't be able to simply survive..



PS azazel: what a sad thing to say... okay then, I'd kill a million israeli to save one palestinian...

now how does that feel?

	30-07-2003 04:04									#139
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it's all the fault of those damn mofos in the Taurus mountains in the Middle east that introduced metallurgy

they're the ones who started the human technological advance into large large communities, eventually cities and then empires!

	30-07-2003 04:06									#140
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gee, I never realized that che is a pansy.

	30-07-2003 04:23									#141
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quote: Originally posted by Osweld But the reason they where facing extinction in the first place was humans. We chose not to kill them all off so that we could continue to eat them. How benevolent of us. The ecoystem there is as damaged as ever, keeping them around to eat hasn't helped anything but humans.

Benevolence has nothing to do with it. They are alive, and even thrive, because they are of use to us.

	30-07-2003 04:25									#142
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I'll admit that I fully support genocide against cockroaches and misc. insects...most are only good for spreading filth and disease (and scaring the **** out of people)

But I wouldn't oppose improving the treatment of other animals killed for food, and wouldn't mind eating more vegetables instead of meat...just that I'm not going to lose any sleep over it, if it's not possible.

Humans should take care of humans first (just like all other animals take care of their own), but trying to keep the natural environment at least reasonably clean and functioning while they do so (this could certainly be improved much more even today, as a lot of needless damage evidently continues...).

	30-07-2003 04:57									#143
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk Benevolence has nothing to do with it. They are alive, and even thrive, because they are of use to us.

And why's that a good thing? Allowing something to live as food source is hardly a noble thing. I don't see how you can say that as a defence of eating meat - it just makes the practice that much more disgusting.

	30-07-2003 05:00									#144
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Everything living is food. Haven't you figured that out yet?

	30-07-2003 05:01									#145
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk Everything living is food. Haven't you figured that out yet?

No ****. Do you have a point?

	30-07-2003 05:10									#146
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My point is, what does nobility have to do with it?

	30-07-2003 05:11									#147
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I can't stand the thought of eating flesh

hence I don't eat meat

am I a panzy?

Jon Mill;er

	30-07-2003 05:13									#148
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No, you're not a pansy.

	30-07-2003 05:15									#149
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk My point is, what does nobility have to do with it?

You're the one who is pushing the idea of keeping the animals alive as a good (noble) thing. So don't ask me.

	30-07-2003 05:17									#150
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What part of

quote: Benevolence has nothing to do with it.

do you not understand?