04-08-2003 08:43									#181
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quote: Originally posted by panag a 22 with training is far better then a .45 or 9MM , ..... but if you want real stopping power , get a coonan .357 , ...... have a nice day

Yeah, but he didn't seem overly interested in training in anything. Which is incredibly bad all around, but makes a gun like a 22 particularly useless.

	04-08-2003 08:51									#182
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quote: Originally posted by Blisterz Ride a bike to and from work. It's a lot harder to mug someone on a bike.

But not impossible. I was mugged on a bike. I got lucky and was able to escape on with bike. Because I was moving he had an akward swing at me, and that's probably the only reason I have a job, still live in Florida, and have all of my teeth, no broken bones, and am not brain damaged, because I honestly believe they were prepared to **** me up.

	04-08-2003 08:52									#183
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David, Yes I agree with dirty fighting and I also agreed to use eyes if there are multiple attackers or situation very serious .

There are many ways to take people down, but in these cases we should stick with what works and is easy to do. For example thumb the dude in the eye was good yes. Telescope baton is good like someone suggested.
If you know how to punch good, you can always brake the nose, isn't that hard to do and makes most persons back down for a moment and blinded for a while, because water is running in their eyes. Now you can think of attacking groins, as attacker is now easy target wombling around in pain. In ground David said it is good to kick, but that is also dangerous . Stomping especially is very dangerous on streets, so I wouldn't recommend that. Instead you can stomp his fingers and brake few doing that. Now you would have left attacker in serious pain but with not serious damage, few broken bones. Later on it is easy to see who the attacker was, as he will be wearing bandates in his nose and hand.

Fish hooking is excellent if you get into the ground. Put your thumb inside his mouth and pull to the other side hard. It hurts like hell.

	04-08-2003 08:56									#184
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But even when these are very simple things to do, you have to train a bit.. If you get jumped, then you likely froze for a bit and that's bad. Then you can't think rationally, and you can't remember what people posted here!

It has to come from the backbone, you have to have it in you, and that comes with doing it over and over and over again.

	04-08-2003 08:56									#185
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Utlimately, what gets you is complacency. You are in a situation over and over that you forget it's a dangerous situation, because nothing has happened to you before. I was able to walk through some of the scarier neighborhoods in Chicago because I looked like a crazy white guy, the kinda that probably had a gun and wasn't afraid to use it. I used to regularly dress like a biker, that's just how I'm comfortable, but not in this humid ass state. Now I dress like a retiree, and I don't look scary so much as I look like a goofball. I've gone from not worth the trouble to easy mark.

Speer had no reason to assume that this encounter was going to be a bad one. It started the same as many other perfectly normal, if annoying, situations. He just got unlucky. He had the presence of mind to offer up his wallet before he was badly hurt, so he did the right thing.

	04-08-2003 09:04									#186
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che, I don't deny what you said. I think AS did the right thing too. He was caught by complete surprise and that's bad... but what are you going to do.. these things happens I guess.

che, retirees are the worst! If someone comes to you and gives problems, then I'm thinking 'why is this person this aggressive, he can't take me?' and natural conclusion is 'he's packing and is not afraid to use it!'.
Especialyl when there are not much guns here in the streets, but these oldies, they have done wars and stuff, have them old weapons and they are not afraid to use them either!

Like this one old man, my dads friend, you can't wake him up fast. You have to wake up from distance by nicely saying 'wake up already..'.. don't ever shake him up, because he'll grab your throat and starts bringing it before he realizes it's not war anymore. 80 year old man is not dangerous? They are surprisingly strong!

The most dangerous folks if you rob their houses in here. If you rob someones house, they'll be scared and do what you say or run away and call the cops.. but these oldies? Never.. they always have guns and they are coming to apprehend you or shoot. Every now and then we have news '80 year old man beat 2 attackers in his home' and young lads are in trouble!
And then they go 'it was no problem.. I just woke up and.. it was like back in war!' and they have those crazy smiles and nostalgia thing going on.

So I'm staying away from the oldies, don't want to piss them off..

	04-08-2003 10:04									#187
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I'm with Floyd...don't get a gun, get a self-defence class. Pinned arms may prevent you from using a Gun, but it won't prevent you from using your skills if you know how to fight effectively.

I'm truly sorry this happened to you Speer. But it is unsafe to be walking that late in North East Philadelphia with that much money on you.

	04-08-2003 10:17									#188
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alright i won't get a gun... a lot of my boys are starting to buy 45's and **** but illegal ones... its too expensive to get one legit. i'll just be more careful and maybe get some little things mentioned here like that tire thing...

and orange... it's northWEST philly... germantown area. but i've been walking that late everyday with that much money on me... nothing happened before. used to be my way a couple years ago but i guess you move out and people forget about you and ****.

	04-08-2003 10:24									#189
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whatever, it's still dangerous.

I ****ing hate Philadelphia.

	04-08-2003 10:33									#190
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quote: In ground David said it is good to kick, but that is also dangerous . Stomping especially is very dangerous on streets, so I wouldn't recommend that.

Dangerous to whom? If someone is lying on the ground, it isn't dangerous to you to kick them in the face. Oh, they might grab your foot? Great, they just earned themselves a big helping of you dropping all of your weight onto their face, via your knee.

Now, it might be dangerous to them, but after all, they're mugging you

	04-08-2003 10:40									#191
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David, yeah, but stomping someones head on the street or do Jon Hess double knee drop to it can kill someone and most likely will give serious brain damages.. Why not just kick in the groin repeatedly? You can go for attempted manslaughter if you knee drop.. just mash the family jewlery... ?

	04-08-2003 10:42									#192
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Depends on the situation, and the relevant local laws concerning self defense. In Texas, they are less strict than elsewhere.

	04-08-2003 10:44									#193
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unless of course you're black. Then you get the chair.

	04-08-2003 10:45									#194
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Sure, but I don't see why 'the lesson' has to be killing someone or leaving him vegetable for the rest of his life.... IF you get him down safely and dominate that is.
If you're not in control and not sure, then sure be nasty times 1000, but if you already are submitting the attacker, and giving some extra free punishment, I don't see the reason why it should be that hard of a punishment.

	04-08-2003 10:54									#195
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orange,

Which is a good reason to impose an indefinite moratorium, I suppose.

Pekka,

You're correct. I'm more concerned about situations where a)the attacker is armed or b)there are multiple attackers.

	04-08-2003 11:13									#196
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just be an eye-gouging, knee-breaking, ear-ripping, throat-chopping, ball-twisting son of a b1tch

	04-08-2003 11:31									#197
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quote: David... like i said, the two guys had surprise and they knew what they were doing by grabbing me so my arms were locked to my side... i couldnt do ****...

you coulda shot to wound as they ran away... im sure you could have justified it as you were trying to get your property back... i would think i could at least and get no more than a slap on the wrist, but i live in texas.

unfortunately here you have to be 21 to own a handgun, im sure its the same in your area to

	04-08-2003 11:33									#198
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oh, and if your hands were held, how did you give them your wallet and stuff?

	04-08-2003 12:19									#199
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Kramerman:

yeah someone told me its 21 but i also heard its 18... i dont know.

after i told them i'd give them my wallet and said let me get it out, the one boy let my one arm free. what you think?

	04-08-2003 12:25									#200
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Sorry to hear of your misfortune, Albert.

Some links:

Accu-thump (a kind of Tire Buddy)
http://www.accu-thump.com/specifications.html

Other defensive items
http://criminalstoppers.com
http://www.tbotech.com/

Some advice:

Don't get a gun until you're properly licensed. If you do get one, recognize the drawbacks and limitations.

Carry a decoy wallet. If possible, put in a few real $1 bills and a couple of fake $20 bills (convincing laserjet copies); if the fakes are convincing enough, maybe the scum will try to buy stuff with 'em and get arrested.

Carry a decoy bag of pot. A small bag of oregano or parsley should suffice. Of course, this could backfire, as a stupid cop may not believe it's not weed.

Good luck.

	04-08-2003 12:28									#201
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well, i woudla done what you did in that situation, and then would have waited til they were at least a few feet away before pulling out my gun... but i wouldnt have hesitate to use it in that situation. you, judging from your frustration and rage, probably wouldnt have either. but dont ever even comtemplate using a hand gun or any firearm for that matter until you are very familiar with it, can use it effectively, and are confident that you would be able to use it when the time comes. There is a lot to learn to use firearms effectively and 'safely' for self-defense. so i wouldnt even consider looking into this path unless you are comitted to go all the way, putting in the time, effort, and money. because if you dont, as others have said earlier, a gun is likely to be more dangerous then useful in these situations.

	04-08-2003 12:31									#202
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but if you do go all the way thru with it, im sure you wll be able to walk the streets with complete and utter confidence, cause not even a 7 foot, 350 lb black man can take a .45 slug well

	04-08-2003 12:35									#203
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quote: 7 foot, 350 lb black man

why was 'black' necessary in this phrase?

thank you for your suggestions though

	04-08-2003 13:28									#204
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You don't live near Rittenhouse Square do you?
I saw some pretty shady folks hanging around there...but the worst was in the bar/shopping district down by the waterfront. I was drinking with a couple girls I met and some serious dudes started harassing them on the street. Luckily, I was really ****ed up and looked all stupid/scary and they left us alone after the initial bullshit.
What an idiot I was...hanging out with two random Philly chicks with an assload of money....
That town is rough.

	04-08-2003 13:32									#205
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what the hell?! rittenhouse square?! the water-front?! those are the upper-class white areas! the gentrified places!

damn supersneak... thats the place where all the yuppie lawyers live

	04-08-2003 13:38									#206
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Hmmm...then Philly's safe parts of town look as bad as Portland's worst parts of town.
Having had the living **** beat out of me with a 2x4, I know how you feel: helpless, angry and humiliated.
But really, you had no options...and I don't think a gun is going to help you out of most situations, really.
Spend your money on bus fare and rent in a new town...****, you can work at McDonald's anywhere.

	04-08-2003 13:47									#207
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Portland? as in Portland Oregon? of course Philly is worse... damn... like Chegitz said, the only thing worse than Philly is its next door neighbour Camden.

	04-08-2003 15:11									#208
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Uhm are these things legal in the US?

http://criminalstoppers.com/stunbaton.htm

Talk about nasty... Though I assume you'd want to be confident using it and make sure you don't get it taken off you and used on you...

	04-08-2003 17:19									#209
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quote: Originally posted by dv8ed Yeah, but he didn't seem overly interested in training in anything. Which is incredibly bad all around, but makes a gun like a 22 particularly useless.

hi ,

one more reason he should go with the 22 , .....


this way if he shoots himself in the foot or in an other body part , the damage shall be small , .......


have a nice day

	04-08-2003 17:21									#210
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quote: Originally posted by Kramerman but if you do go all the way thru with it, im sure you wll be able to walk the streets with complete and utter confidence, cause not even a 7 foot, 350 lb black man can take a .45 slug well

hi ,

sjee , can they , .........


when you shoot them they are bleeding also , just like a white , .....


bye