03-08-2003 21:57									#151
	Re: I was just mugged! Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer About forty minutes ago, i was walking on germantown and about johnson when this one guy about my age asked me if i had weed and i said i didn't and i continued walking and he followed me a couple steps behind and then ran to me and grabbed me and pushed me against a lap-post and another boy ran over and started beating my face demanding weed... and he was big too and beat me bad. i gave them my wallet that had 50 dollar bill in it, four or five twenties and a couple fives and ones and they stole my cd player and ran off to some car and drove off. a couple blocks away, i saw two policemen who drove me to where these other males were being arrested and asked me if they were them but they weren't... then the cops took me home... god damn! i'm mad as ****! i lost over one hundred dollars and my cd player! thank god my check card was outside my wallet! all cause of some ****ing weed! god damn this my ****ing neighbourhood! thats it i'm ****ing buying a gun with my next paycheck

that really sucks

don't carry that much money on you

Jon Miller

	03-08-2003 21:57									#152
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove This is just thesort of situation where having a gun would have been suicidal.

exactly.

Anyone telling Speer to get a gun is crazy.

Speer: condolences. What happened to you sucks big time.

One thing to remember is that you could have done a thousand things differently, and it could have ended the same, or worse.

Like the doctor said, if you had a gun, it could have been a lot worse. You could end up shot with your own gun. Or you accidentally shoot a bystander and do some jail time.

If you had a knife, they could have stabbed you.

If you were 6'2" and big, they still might have been drugged out enough to jump ya.

In other words, it ain't your fault. You didn't do anything wrong.

	03-08-2003 22:02									#153
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Vel:

there are a dozen different products from rim covers to safety steps called the tire buddy...

	03-08-2003 22:15									#154
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thanks for all your suggestions... i dont think ill buy a gun yet just because its so expensive. tonight i work the late shift but i won't be working late any days for the rest of the week so i won't have to worry about nothing til next week. i'll be sure to catch the bus that goes directly from my job to my home tonight (I had just missed it last night forcing me to walk cause i didnt want to wait 40 minutes).

as an update, my jaw is much better now. its a little sore but not having the sharp pains of last night. i'm still only chewing on my food on my good side of my mouth though (last night i couldnt even do that) a few of my back teeth and molars are chipped slightly but they're all there.

	03-08-2003 22:17									#155
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quote: Originally posted by Tingkai In other words, it ain't your fault. You didn't do anything wrong.

Indeed, but that's not a reason not to look for ways to prevent it in the future.

I don't think weaponry can help (although a streetfighting skill could definitely help in a worst-case scenario), but we can look for ways to reduce the probability of being mugged. Walking with friends, having impressive enough muscle, walking quickly, carrying less money, wearing other clothes can all help in not being robbed.

	03-08-2003 22:18									#156
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer my jaw is much better now.

Good

	03-08-2003 22:18									#157
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just think speer, if marijuana was legalized, they could've shoplifted some, instead of ruining your day, week, even month.

	03-08-2003 22:20									#158
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monolith:

its a jackass thing to do to spin this into a political issue but if anything, in my mind, this only furthered my resolve that the drug war is right. if only the police were more capable...

	03-08-2003 22:25									#159
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I know, I know, it's ok dearie...

For what it's worth, I do feel symathy for you.

	03-08-2003 22:28									#160
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Albert: You'll know this when you see it....none of that other stuff you mentioned would make a very good totable weapon. Just look for a round stick, maybe an inch and a half thick and 1.5-2' long with a band of steel wrapped around the end. Or, describe it and ask the cashier. Carry it with you, and the next time a couple of yahoos want to cause you trouble, introduce them to your new friend.

Sixteen gage steel, swung with purpose, makes quite an impression....

-=Vel=-

	03-08-2003 22:31									#161
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Are you prepared to use a gun on another human being? If you aren't ready to kill somone, don't have a gun, because more likely it'll be used against you or it will escalate the violence. WHile it's true that sometimes a gun is the only solution, most often it will only make things worse, kinda like not wearing seatbelts. Worse, are you prepared to deal with the consequences if you miss and kill a bystander?

At the kind of tactical engagement ranges we're talking about, it's very hard to miss. HOWEVER....

Speer, before you play Wyatt Earp, here's a few serious things to consider, not the juvenile kneejerk horseshit reactions you may have got from some quarters.

(a) You have to consider your realistic tactical chances of successfully employing the weapon. For my purposes, deterring, detaining, or killing an assailant are all successful encounters, getting the **** kicked out of you , then getting one in the face or the back of the head because you couldn't draw it fast enough or got tackled and got it wrestled away from you is an unsucessful encounter.

(b) You have to give some serious consideration to your operating environment. If people know you carry, they may be deterred, or they may decide to ambush you with a piece of threaded steel pipe removing part of your head without warning, because stealing that piece off of you will be worth more dope when sold than the cash you're likely to have, or allow them to graduate to carjacking or armed robbery. In other words, if you insist on walking through an operational area that is a potential three-dimension by 360 degree tactical threat environment like the ****ing Mog, then you're not going to get far by carrying, even with a good shoulder or crossdraw holster that gives you a good fast release. You have to be able to see the threat develop, and clearheadedly plan a response to it (i.e. is there one in front and one behind, and how close, are they armed? etc.), and you have to have the time to react effectively and decisively.

Pulling the ****ing thing out, dropping it because your hands are shaking, and having it pop a round into your ankle when it drops because you bought a cheap piece of **** isn't real effective. Getting pissed off and shooting the guy prematurely before you have a legal basis for shooting his ass isn't effective either. In other words, you need to be calm, collected and cool enough to assess the situation realistically, before it gets too late, and you have to respond like a trained professional, which you are the farthest thing from being. Anything else, and it's just luck what happens, and that's something you don't want.

(c) If you get a gun, don't get a "cheap" one. You also need to learn with complete proficiency how to strip it and clean it, disassemble it and reassemble it with complete proficiency, work the safety in your sleep (if you go semi-auto), work the magazine (semi auto) or speed-loaders (revolver) in your sleep, draw it first time, every time, into a proper grip, from whatever holster you use. (hint: don't carry it around in your jacket pocket with your keys and spare change.)

(d) You need to get your ass to a firing range, and as you've presumably never handled a piece before, learn (not self-taught) complete safe handling on and off the range. You also need to learn to shoot with consistent proficiency, speed, and develop a mental view of the whole process, as simply processing targets. If you ever have to shoot live, you're not shooting human beings, or ******* scumbags, you're just processing targets. Get emotional on your own time, when you have that luxury. If there's a combat range in your area, go to it. They're expensive as hell, but tactical shooting skill is a life or death issue if you ever have to go down that road. Missing the right target, hitting the wrong target, or just about anything else you do wrong is extremely dangerous, unless you're extremely lucky.

If you're not prepared to deal with all these factors consistently, seriously, and with full appreciation of the potential consequences of any tactical engagement, then you shouldn't carry.

Even if you are prepared to deal seriously with all these issues, you still have to consider your tactical environment and whether you have a realistic (i.e. disabuse yourself of any cowboy bullshit notions you might have or others might feed you) chance of a successful engagement. You're probably better off modifying when/how you go through this area anyway, even if you do carry.

	03-08-2003 22:37									#162
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What MtG said.....if you are unaccustomed to, or uncomfortable with firearms, it can be more of a hinderance than a help (a hinderance which may well see you dead), which is why I prefer my little steel-tipped "sidearm." Easy to use, longer than the vast majority of knives you're likely to encounter if it happens again, totally unexpected, and one hit from it will render a would-be attacker a non-issue.

-=Vel=-

	03-08-2003 22:47									#163
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well damn mtg... a tactical briefing...

but maybe i'll hold off on a gun. good information to know for later though.

vel, you say gas stations should sell it? or would i have to go to a store like Pep Boys?

	03-08-2003 22:55									#164
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer well damn mtg... a tactical briefing... but maybe i'll hold off on a gun. good information to know for later though.

Guns themselves aren't a problem. It's when people don't have a clue that they become a problem.

	03-08-2003 23:00									#165
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The anwser is to be more self aware; pay close attention to your surroundings and make sure people who are loitering or acting funny (like running around demanding someone give them weed) know you have an eye on them. I imagine that in many cases muggers want to catch someone by surprise and if they know you aren't surprised they might just let you pass. They're looking for an easy mark so keep aware and don't be an easy mark.

	03-08-2003 23:14									#166
	Re: I was just mugged! Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer About forty minutes ago, i was walking on germantown and about johnson when this one guy about my age asked me if i had weed and i said i didn't and i continued walking and he followed me a couple steps behind and then ran to me and grabbed me and pushed me against a lap-post and another boy ran over and started beating my face demanding weed... and he was big too and beat me bad. i gave them my wallet that had 50 dollar bill in it, four or five twenties and a couple fives and ones and they stole my cd player and ran off to some car and drove off. a couple blocks away, i saw two policemen who drove me to where these other males were being arrested and asked me if they were them but they weren't... then the cops took me home... god damn! i'm mad as ****! i lost over one hundred dollars and my cd player! thank god my check card was outside my wallet! all cause of some ****ing weed! god damn this my ****ing neighbourhood! thats it i'm ****ing buying a gun with my next paycheck

hi ,

before you buy a gun , get some insurance , a good jacket , and then you buy a gun , a 45 socom shall stop them , donbt forget a smaller back of the same cal , .....

have a nice day

	03-08-2003 23:23									#167
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Ride a bike to and from work. It's a lot harder to mug someone on a bike.

	03-08-2003 23:50									#168
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quote: Originally posted by Blisterz Ride a bike to and from work. It's a lot harder to mug someone on a bike.

hi ,

you are joking , right , ...... its way easier

have a nice one

	03-08-2003 23:53									#169
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer an update, my jaw is much better now. its a little sore but not having the sharp pains of last night. i'm still only chewing on my food on my good side of my mouth though (last night i couldnt even do that) a few of my back teeth and molars are chipped slightly but they're all there.

That sucks man. Still slightly chipped is better then knacked out and I know dentists now days are very good at cosmetic fixes. Just hang in there.

	03-08-2003 23:56									#170
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just get a knife man

it's easier to conceal, easier to draw, and you don't have to worry about getting your **** blown off

	03-08-2003 23:58									#171
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'bout any truck stop of any size will carry them...

-=Vel=-

	03-08-2003 23:58									#172
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Yeah, but if you get a knife, you should train how to use it. If I get someones knife to my hands just pulled on me, it's going to be found on the attackers ass with 100% certainty .

So, learn how to use it really.

	04-08-2003 01:31									#173
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One more thought to add to MtG's good advice:

You said that all you can realistically carry around is a 22. A 22 will be far more likely to get you into trouble than out of it unless you are very skilled with it. If you run into somebody who's really badass, getting hit with a 22 in a non-vital area (which most of them are) is more likely to piss them off than stop them. Guns are really only useful for the intimidation factor. If you have to actually use them, it's a crapshoot...odds are at least as good that you'll get shot rather than them in close quarters. You'd be much better off getting some of the non-lethals that have been suggested. Pepper spray or a squirt-gun full of some nasty concoction would be more effective.

Of course, this is coming from a 6'5" guy who's never been all that concerned with being mugged, so take it as you will.

	04-08-2003 04:13									#174
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If you're gonna get a gun, don't bother with getting a concealed gun. Carry an unloaded shotgun. It doesn't even have to be a real one. People will give you the whole street to yourself and if anyone is stupid enough to mess with you anyway it can be used like any other steel blunt object.

	04-08-2003 04:23									#175
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A bit late with this thread, but my condolences Speer.

	04-08-2003 05:02									#176
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quote: Originally posted by dv8ed One more thought to add to MtG's good advice: You said that all you can realistically carry around is a 22. A 22 will be far more likely to get you into trouble than out of it unless you are very skilled with it. If you run into somebody who's really badass, getting hit with a 22 in a non-vital area (which most of them are) is more likely to piss them off than stop them. Guns are really only useful for the intimidation factor. If you have to actually use them, it's a crapshoot...odds are at least as good that you'll get shot rather than them in close quarters. You'd be much better off getting some of the non-lethals that have been suggested. Pepper spray or a squirt-gun full of some nasty concoction would be more effective. Of course, this is coming from a 6'5" guy who's never been all that concerned with being mugged, so take it as you will.

hi ,

a 22 with training is far better then a .45 or 9MM , .....

but if you want real stopping power , get a coonan .357 , ......

have a nice day

	04-08-2003 05:15									#177
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quote: I don't know if you should thumb the attacker in the eye with full power as David suggested, as that is lethal and very dangerous. To the attacker.

If there's more than one attacker, or the one person is likely to seriously hurt you, then by all means be extremely brutal. If you blind the ****er, tough ****.

The adam's apple is a great target, too. Also remember small joints - fingers, for example. If the opportunity presents itself, take a finger and jerk it back until it breaks. And the second your attacker goes down, don't be afraid to "fight dirty" - keep kicking him until he isn't likely to get up. If there's more than one opponent, especially, this guy needs to stay down, so repeated kicks to the head are good.

The biggest point I'm making is that you should never be afraid to fight dirty, because all that matters is getting out of the situation. Run if you can, fight if you have to, but if you have to fight, fight to win.

	04-08-2003 06:21									#178
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IF you get a gun, get a revolver. Better get a knife or a telescoping club. 4" to 2' in less than a second, prefectly balanced and lethal. Just as lethal when wrested out of your hand and used against you though. Better to hit vital areas with suitable fists, take out knees, balls and eyes. When hitting the eyes use all your fingers, not just two (in case anybody actually thinks that this is how it's done). Harder to miss this way.
Last time I was mugged I talked my way out of it, although it was by the infamous Young Russian Mafia guys, twenty-something sons of mobsters (literally) who really like taking people apart - knives, chains, pipes etc totally savage and murderous. I just talked nice and let them make fun of me. Still I was quite lucky that they were in a good mood. Plus some old guy with gold teeth came and told them in a hoarse voice to leave me alone
Oh, and if you get involved in a streetfight with multiple opponents, never EVER wrestle!!!! This is a very good way to get killed in a streetfight (talking from experience - not getting killed but getting kicked, caught, pinned to the floor by four guys and getting ridden by the fifth - I had his head in a neck-braking hold but decided to wrestle him to the ground instead in order to not get into trouble. Thankfully help came before I got really hurt). Quick, powerful jabs at vulnerable points is the way to go. One hit is enough to put a person out of action, if you do this to two or three of them the rest will go away.

	04-08-2003 08:32									#179
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Would taking a car to and from work be possible? How about changing your look? Wear dorky clothes, then no one will think you're a dealer.

	04-08-2003 08:39									#180
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer damnit i cant ****ing eat! my jaw is killing me everytime i chew...

It'll get better. Stick to soup at first.