16-10-2003 02:24									#61
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quote: Originally posted by Impaler[WrG] Well besides the fact that I belive we should be doing our terraforming in the Present rather then 100 years in the Past I felt I might give a few coments.

Er... hehe.

quote: First off I am very build oriented person and I favor Nutrients most of all and I avoid Forests except on the most worthless land.

The problem is that we need all-around good squares to work very soon, to increase production. Other terraforming methods take a lot of time, and former numbers that we don't have right now.

quote: I whent around most of the bases and tried to see what the next best tile to develop would be, here are my recomendations. Logic Loop - Farm at 68/72 would alow us to realocate workers for a net +2 energy.

Good point, I was planning on doing that after the farm at (71,71) is completed, since it's already under construction. It will allow for an earlier bonus, and approximately the same amount of time to complete the actions.

quote: Another farm at 68/70 would bost nutrients.

No it wouldn't... at least not until we get gene splicing (hopefully soon).

quote: Mythical Matrix - A mine at 79/71 when worked by the new worker would take in 4 mins and 1 eng. This would excellerate colony Pod Production and help to make this Base a Pod factory for setlment of the rich North eastern territories (which we do not want to loss to the Drones if they are infact on our land mass).

Yes it would, and that will be a good job for the former coming up behind to do. However, I think we can gain more advantage by speeding up road production in that area to allow the colony pods to get to their base site quicker. In addition, if we do plan to make MM a CP base, then it will only be able to work one square at a time for most of its time. If it works the nutrients, it grows faster to produce the colony pod, but is unable to work the newly terraformed square. If it works the mine, it will not have grown by the time the colony pod is done.

quote: Zetaris - Mine at 79/71 would bring in a huge load of minerals atlest 7 which could be crawled by the crawler Zetaris is making.

That would be a great square to work. Thanks for pointing it out, I had missed it. That seems like a very good idea.

quote: Pi Squared - A farm at 69/61 would incresse nutrients

First, it's Pi Square, not Pi Squared. Second, no it wouldn't, at least not until Gene Splicing.

quote: Binary Bastion - Why are we building a Forest next to this city? When you open the base view that tile is unharvestable, this may have something to do with the Monument thing their. Are we shure the square will be workable?

The tile is not unharvestable. In fact, we could harvest it right now if we really wanted to. The only thing is that it doesn't produce anything (because it's ruins). If the square is improved, it can be worked with abandon. I believe that a tile that produces nothing is "the most worthless of terrain", and so a forest seemed to be the best, indeed only, choice. In addition, it is right along the path the road will be built on, so we didn't have to waste any movement getting there.

quote: Aurora - Developing the square that Miriams copter is on right now would be a good idea, its high elevation, moist, rolling and I belive it recives the +1 mineral Crater Bonus (The crater bonus can be tricky, I know for one it dose not aply to all squares that have the Crater label)

I agree completely, and I'm leaving it up to you to convince Miriam to move her copter. Until that time, none of our formers can get there.

quote: Also I must express my conserne over our lack of Recycaling Tanks. You guys may know something I dont but it would shure seem to be that we could use them in a number of our bases, I find that the long term exceleration effects are more then worth the investment. I think we should make them a Priority as soon as our war units are produced. Most of the larger bases could make them very quickly.

We would like very much to have recycling tanks, however other things have, in the past, been much more important. It's been very hectic since the beginning, and we've never really had the time, energy, or minerals to build recycling tanks, as there were always other priorities (formers, colony pods, base garrisons, recreation commons, crawlers, and now military units). However, thank you for reminding us... we have a tendency to get carried away with whatever we're doing.

Thank you very much for your critiques and suggestions. They definitely help.

	16-10-2003 04:37									#62
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Ok. Have looked at save, and have a couple of questions.

With regards to the MCC: We had planned to use the crawler at 69,77 to rush the MCC in LL this turn. Is this still ok? Also, I have just noticed, that since we are not intending to rush with a crawler in Pi Square, we can use the crawler next to LL, currently harvesting minerals, in to rush in LL, and the crawler at 69, 63 can replace it. This would mean that we build the MCC next turn We lose 5 minerals for not harvesting, but gain 24 from rushing. IMHO a good idea. We need the MCC ASAP.

Also, your build orders where not the plan that Maniac and I had been discussing. The cruiser transport was to be built in Aurora, after the Rec Commons, and Pi Square was to build a probe cruiser, followed by a 2-3-8, or if we get it in time, a 4-1-6 cruiser. Apolyton Prime was to continue building probe defenses for our outlying bases too, and to board the transport to infilitrate/steal from PEACE.

	16-10-2003 05:01									#63
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Yes I know they weren't... I couldn't find your plans. That's why I posted these as tentative and created the otehr thread.

IIRC, we have 43 minerals left to complete the MCC, and are producing 13 minerals a turn. It seems like it would be a better idea if we used the crawler to the south to rush it next turn, when there are only 30 minerals left, to complete it, rather than wasting a second crawler...

Unless, of course, you think PEACE could rush it this turn.

	16-10-2003 06:14									#64
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I just think having it a turn earlier would help our exploration. Then we can trade it with the Drones too. IIRC we have 184 mins, and need 240. Thats 56 needed. 24 per crawler, means 8 left, which is this turns production without that crawler.

Otherwise we have 24 to rush it, and 3 turns to it. It will be 2143 if we use 2 crawlers, or 2145 if we use one. IMHO it is worth a crawler to get it 2 turns earlier.

	16-10-2003 06:17									#65
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It's not much difference though. What do others think?

	16-10-2003 08:39									#66
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Get it two turns earlier... it will take two turns for LL to replace the crawler, and we get it that much earlier. Next turn it is then! Hoorah!

	16-10-2003 09:30									#67
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I have to go to bed now (it's half 5 in the morning ) but if you can get the firm orders posted in the orders thread I'll play it tomorrow. We have until the early hours of tomorrow morning, and I should be ok to play tomorrow afternoon. Thanks

	16-10-2003 14:22									#68
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so MCC next turn?

	16-10-2003 19:44									#69
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I am asuming yall dont wat to use any energy to hurry it as thats all beings saved up to buy NLM from Mirriam? A little energy rush combined with just 1 crawler might do the job (I am hoping one of you can figure this out).

	16-10-2003 19:49									#70
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Yes

Corellion: Thanks for the orders, look good However I have noted that we can get the 150 ec for Miriam a turn earlier (2144) if we put the sliders to 80-0-20 and keep the AP worker on the energy resources. I know it seems drastic, but having that a turn earlier is worth putting our research rate back IMHO. We need that tech! I know we only polled to change it to 60-0-40, and there are no orders for it, but having only just noticed this, IMHO it is too good to miss. We said we wanted it as early as possible, and this is it, therefore I declare (unless anyone wants to voice an opinion now, as I about to go and play) that this is an emergency and will put it that way. the worst case is if you disagree with me and we put it back to 50-0-50 next turn, which is little difference.

Edit: Phenix has agreed by MSN, so I'll play and do it. I'm sorry if you disagree, but I don't have any more time before I have to play

Last edited by Drogue on 16-10-2003 at 20:14

	16-10-2003 19:51									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Impaler[WrG] I am asuming yall dont wat to use any energy to hurry it as thats all beings saved up to buy NLM from Mirriam? A little energy rush combined with just 1 crawler might do the job (I am hoping one of you can figure this out).

We have, it's too much money. With going for Non Math, we can't afford to. Indeed, it has already been done, with both crawlers, as ordered

	17-10-2003 00:15									#72
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Due to the flood of CyCon posts lately, I haven't had time to follow the last turn, and the orders for it. So these problems might be known already, or even intended, but I'll mention them anyway to be sure:

1> There is no worker or no crawler harvesting the 1-5-0 mineral square of Logic Loop.
2> That crawler near LL is only harvesting one nutrient.
3> Aurora is one turn away from growing. If we don't hurry the rec commons, or turn a worker into a doctor, the base will probably riot.

	17-10-2003 00:56									#73
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Due to the flood of CyCon posts lately, I haven't had time to follow the last turn, and the orders for it. So these problems might be known already, or even intended, but I'll mention them anyway to be sure: 1> There is no worker or no crawler harvesting the 1-5-0 mineral square of Logic Loop.

Yep... see next.

quote: 2> That crawler near LL is only harvesting one nutrient.

Yep... it's on its way to rehome at LL and then harvest the 5 minerals.

quote: 3> Aurora is one turn away from growing. If we don't hurry the rec commons, or turn a worker into a doctor, the base will probably riot.

Indeed... I'll check that out.

	17-10-2003 01:12									#74
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac 1> There is no worker or no crawler harvesting the 1-5-0 mineral square of Logic Loop. 2> That crawler near LL is only harvesting one nutrient.

Already addressed. All part of getting the MCC ASAP.

quote: Originally posted by Maniac 3> Aurora is one turn away from growing. If we don't hurry the rec commons, or turn a worker into a doctor, the base will probably riot.

Worker will be changed to doctor. I thought I could do it next turn, but I may be mistaken Worker will remain as doctor until the RC is built.

	18-10-2003 20:15									#75
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A few more sugjestions.

I noticed that Logic Loops Build quee is empty, arn't we supposed to have stockpile energy their to get the extra energy, or dose that not work with a SP?

If Bolean Bay were to hurry its Crawler with 8 energy it could start harvesting with the crawler 1 turn ealier (I am wondering if we have the energy to spare)


I think Binary Bastion should build recycling tanks next.

Zetaris should send its new crawler to 76/66 and then start on Recycling tanks. Later it can start pumping out Colony Pods.

One of the Formers that is near Apolyton Prime should head over to 66/66 and build solar panels, this tile will be very productive 2/1/3 with the solar panel.

I belive that any of our bases not comited to war production should focus on Tanks, Formers and then Colony Pods. After we buy NLM all further energy credits should go to hurrying facilites that are near completion.

Is this an agreeable strategy? With our larger bases doing war production and our smaller ones growing we should be in good position and begin to catch up with the other factions.

	18-10-2003 21:02									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Impaler[WrG] I noticed that Logic Loops Build quee is empty, arn't we supposed to have stockpile energy their to get the extra energy, or does that not work with a SP?

The stockpile energy feature only works with units (ie not SP's nor facilities)

G.

	18-10-2003 21:26									#77
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Thanks for the answers, Drogue and Corellion.

Impaler:

quote: If Bolean Bay were to hurry its Crawler with 8 energy it could start harvesting with the crawler 1 turn ealier (I am wondering if we have the energy to spare)

If it's only turn earlier, does the (so I assume) two minerals extra of that year weigh up against eight credits?

As for recycling tanks, well personally I'm a strong advocater of giving CPs, formers and crawlers priority over rec tanks or about any other facility, though of course we could poll it, as we tend to do with any other major decision.

	18-10-2003 22:05									#78
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I think the log term benifits of Recycling tanks far outway the costs, they are maintance free and give you 3 more production which is alsmost like have a free extra worker. By excelerating growth new workers will be avalible faster which will in-turn go off to collect yet more minerals in addition to whats being produced by the Tank. They time it take to repay the build cost is much shorter then you think and after that its pure profit forever, and I havent even factored in the energy yet!

Ofcorse in some situations formers or colony pods take presidence as they have in many of our bases. But the more time we delay building Tanks the more potential benifit we throw away, which is that much more time the other factions will be ahead of us by. I think that we should be building tanks in several of our bases in the near future.

	19-10-2003 02:14									#79
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I would be against rushing the crawler... that's one turn behind we are in purchasing NLM.

	19-10-2003 03:38									#80
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As Corellion says, we cannot afford any rushing until we have Non Math. While i think expansion, and CPs, is more important than 'tanks ATM, I think we sould start building a few.

Impaler: The same can be said of crawlers. They recoup their minerals very soon, and keep going. They are also flexible. Although I support getting tanks soon.

	19-10-2003 14:52									#81
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I'm also more of an advocate of crawlers and especially some CP's. (lots of free space, especially towards Drone territory!)
Tanks can be usefull, but are IMHO are only better than some formers/crawlers first if there aren't any good production squares in the base's radius and /or it's growing very slowly.

By the way, any base which can build Rec Tanks in a reasonable timespan, should better join the war production. Right now we only have 4 production centers for our combat units, and I'm afraid that Peace will certainly out-build us if this war will drag on

	19-10-2003 19:10									#82
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In the interests of maintaining a credible AI, don't overlook them as a source of funds for redundant techs

[I'm posting this to all players - who have met the AI - so there's no "favoritism' involved (except to the AI - they're keeping up with the leaders pop-wise and units-wise but my little "devices" to keep them abreast tech-wise don't seemed to have kicked in yet)]

G.

	19-10-2003 19:26									#83
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BTW, something I just realised.

There is almost no reason to actually work on SPs until we can one-turn rush them. The base in question can just mass-produce crawlers in that time. Then, not only do we get it in almost the same amount of time (a little more because of mineral overflow), but we actually get it faster, because we have the crawlers to help increase production and do other meaninful things in that time. So much wasted time...

It's such a common tactic too... sigh.

And the same thing goes for any high-mineral build... like for example cruiser probes?

We can get out two crawlers, which will later be traded back in, to work some tiles while we wait to be ready to build it.

Last edited by Corellion on 19-10-2003 at 20:15

	19-10-2003 20:35									#84
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Yes that makes perfect sense Corelion, crawlers are what we want. Also I was wondering if we could just make a Foil Probe as its cheaper, with the MCC it will still have speed equal to a PEACE Cruiser. If we could figure out the distance to the Sea Lurk base wich may infact be close to ware the Probe Cruiser is being built. If its close enough then we might only need a foil inorder to make the infiltration run in 1 turn, based on our maps of PEACE Territory that most of their bases are close enough for a foil to make the trip in 1 turn. Alexandra is 7 moves away from Bolean Bay so probe Foils their should be able to make a quick runs into Alexandria and cause all kinds of mischief

Last edited by Impaler[WrG] on 19-10-2003 at 20:43

	19-10-2003 21:25									#85
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quote: Originally posted by Corellion here is almost no reason to actually work on SPs until we can one-turn rush them. The base in question can just mass-produce crawlers in that time. Then, not only do we get it in almost the same amount of time (a little more because of mineral overflow), but we actually get it faster, because we have the crawlers to help increase production and do other meaninful things in that time. So much wasted time...

A great idea We can also prototype a 0-3-2 crawler if we want to upgrade the others, since that is allowed in this game IIRC.

quote: Originally posted by Corellion And the same thing goes for any high-mineral build... like for example cruiser probes?

We can't, since they are not prototypes.

	19-10-2003 21:31									#86
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I'm pretty sure you can. You just disband them normally, and you get all the minerals, you don't need the dialogue box to pop up. Of course, I could be mistaken here.

Aaaand I am mistaken. Sorry.

Last edited by Corellion on 19-10-2003 at 21:56

	22-10-2003 01:12									#87
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quote: (71,71) – Move to (68,72) along river and begin farm construction

Is that profitable? That will result in 2-1-2. But by planting a forest we can gain 1-2-2, which can be increased to 3-2-3 if we get hybrid forests.

	22-10-2003 01:17									#88
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It's about what we need now though. I am not sure which is best, do we need Nuts or Mins more?

	22-10-2003 01:21									#89
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As Logic Loop is size 5 already, I'd say nutrients aren't that big a priority.

	22-10-2003 01:26									#90
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But don't forget that we can build a hab complex. In any case, that was my original plan, but Impaler brought up this second proposal. Nobody objected, so I assumed you agreed. In any case, I'll say forest.