21-12-2003 00:36									#121
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Looks good indeed!

quote: Pi - Hurry 18 Credits

quote: I think tho that we should hurry Pi more. We need that ship

Will 18 credits allow us to complete the ship MY 2151? Completion date MY 2152 as in our previous plan probably won't suffice, as due to Bird Island being in the way it'll take more than 8 squares to reach Margarittaville.

quote: Zetaris

Personally I was thinking of a plasma garrison to have an extra strong defensive unit, but since we have disagreed regularly about war production lately, I guess I'll just shut up now.

	21-12-2003 04:53									#122
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Will 18 credits allow us to complete the ship MY 2151? Completion date MY 2152 as in our previous plan probably won't suffice, as due to Bird Island being in the way it'll take more than 8 squares to reach Margarittaville.

I'll have a look.

	21-12-2003 23:09									#123
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Mathimaticaly 18 should be enough at a cost of 2 credits per Min, but just to be on the safe side lets bump it up to 20, I can always test it on the turn to make shure it works too.

This will have the Ship moving in 51, but as you stated it cant reach Margaritaville on that turn due to Bird Island (actualy its the FUNGUS on the north and west of the island that will realy stop us).

BUT it could attack SeaLurk Channel on 51 (just bairly and assuming no hidden fungus on the direct path their). The Zetaris Cruiser Node runner will be able to attack Margaritaville OR SeaLurk on turn 52 so we might want to strike their first depending on how things develople, Sea Lurk will likly be poorly defended compared to Margaritaville and PEACE will be conserned with our souther attack at this point so they may be caught off guard by the Northern attack.

As for Production in Zetaris, my first advice is build, but if we go for a unit lets make it offensive or balanced and amphibius. Manic had a nice plan to use the Mammoth transport to pick up units from the northern Pi/AP area and use them to continue the assault, any unit we build in Zetaris should be timed to be able to the transport when it is loading up. But I think this will be hard to do so a Build project is a good idea.

	24-12-2003 03:43									#124
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..nothing

Last edited by laurentius on 24-12-2003 at 04:00

	01-01-2004 21:37									#125
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Internal Affairs 2151

Aurora - Hurry Impaler transport 16 Credits

Apolyton Prime - Hurry 8 Credits to push minerals to next production.

Portral - Move worker onto Sea Mineral Bonus, Hurry 12 Credits

Pi Sqare - New Production Holo Theather

Logic Loop - Take a worker off one of the Forests and Make him a doctor to prevent Drone Riots next turn. Former at (71,71) continutes East and makes a road at (73,71).

EDIT - New Production idea, make new production a Plasma Garrison, complete in 2 turns then start a Holo Therather and scrap the Battle Ogre for 5 rows of Mins completing the Holo in 1 turn. When we take FreeMarket the Ogree will no longer be able to police the base and the Holo will be quite nessary, we will only need to keep the doctor for 3 turns with this plan and can begin making crawlers in turn 2154 with full Drone Control and maximum worker efficiency.

Binary Bastion - If B-Drone redistribution from Democracy/Caping Peace/founding And/Or removes the current B-Drone their then set new Production to Tanks. If not then set to Rec Commons and make a Doctor. New Former moves south and starts a road/forest.

Bolean Bay - Move worker to rivered forest, change production to an Amphibius scout patrol or Plasma Garrison depending on level of PEACE probe production and war plans. Upgrade Scout Patrol to Amphibius at cost of 10 Credits.

Zetaris - Move the crawler not currently assisting Mine building at (76,66) to (81,65) and start a road it able.
Move the 2 formers at (71,65) to (72,64) and begin Forest (no road is nesary before hand). This Forest can be crawled by the new Formers from Zetaris.

Athena - No Change unless Drones apear. In which case we will need to re-evaluate and possibly use 2 doctors next turn.

Margaritaville and Tripoli - Redistribute workers for maximum mineral collection and low to stagnent growth set Production to Amphibius "Boy" scouts (recomend we rename them Aqua Scouts to avoid confusion with PEACE Boey Scouts). Scrap Navey Yards for 40 Credits each. Assign as many Doctors as are needed to maintaine control. If Rec Commons were scrapped by Peace additonal Police may be needed.

And/or Gate - Set new Production to Crawler, work the Mineral Bonus, do not Re-Home the scout patrol.

Authorizing 90 Credits to be spent upgrading Love Boat to a 4-3-8 Impact destroyer at Maniacs Discression.

ReHome as much Military in Concoured Bases as possible without incurring Maintance

Last edited by Impaler[WrG] on 02-01-2004 at 17:33

	02-01-2004 04:24									#126
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My calculations indicate that these are the optimal orders.
Holo on Pi square is a good idea IMO.
Logic loop needs one too.
I'm basicly against spending large amounts of ECs in upgrades, but right now love boat needs to be upgraded.

Last edited by laurentius on 02-01-2004 at 13:02

	02-01-2004 05:25									#127
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My calculations indicate the same results as laurentius'.

Two small questions:

quote: Bolean Bay - Upgrade Scout Patrol to Amphibius at cost of 10 Credits.

Why do you want to do that? Would you want to send that unit to the war instead of the aqua scout or plasma garrison under production at BoBa?

Also, what are your orders for former (71.71) and the new Binary Bastion former?

	02-01-2004 17:58									#128
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Added (71,71) former (continue the road east) and the new Binary Former (make road southward).

The idea I had with regards to Bolean Bay was this. The Impaler Transport will need to pick up military units in turn 52 and then move into the sea fungus just west of the NUT bonus inorder to reach the southern shores of Casablanca on turn 53. An Impact Marines, Plasma Garrison and Probe Defence can easily make that 52 pick up. BUT without a second amphibius unit loading into the transport on 52 we would be unable to capture Casablanca on 53 as the Plasma Garrison is not Amphibius (asuming 1 defender which the Marines kill). So I recomed we upgrade scout that is already in Bolean Bay to an Aqua Scout for the cheap cost of 10 energy and send it off to capture the base after the Marines do the dirty work. Then Bolean will use the unit currently under production as its Police Force. That unit will need to be hurried in 52 so that it can control drones in 53, a Plasma Garrison will make an excelent defender and can be hurried for a few credits in 52.

On the other hand we could upgrade the Plasma Garrison too Amphibius but thats will cost 30 credits. Upgrading the Scout Patrol to an Amphibius Plasma Garrison costs 50. I will leave it up to Maniac to deside what we need here. A lot will depend on what PEACE dose in Casablanca.

	03-01-2004 06:42									#129
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I have a few points I'd like to discuss about the IAF orders.

quote: Move worker onto Sea Mineral Bonus

That's the rolling&rainy worker right? (Just want to make sure the correct one is moved. )

quote: Then we scrap the Battle Ogre for 5 rows of Mins

Personally I would vote against that. We would be wasting a perfectly good combat and police unit, and one that has independent support as well!

quote: Upgrade Scout Patrol to Amphibius at cost of 10 Credits.

Just to streamline things: I have ordered to upgrade it to an impact marine as according to the chat proposal.

quote: Set Production to Rec Commons. Hurry 16 Credits to get acumulation up to 10 mins in 2 more years.

What would you say about building an aqua scout first? That way we have a police and garrison unit, when our other troops leave that base in a while.

***

Btw, please don't forget to order to switch research to Synthetic Fossil Fuels after we stole Ethical Calculus.

Also, what would you think of changing the energy allocation to 40% economy and 60% labs? With democracy the inefficiency hit will be minimal and due to our +2 Research we will gain more labs than we will lose credits!
Also, if we switch the allocation further to 30% economy and 70% labs, we'll be able to research Synthetic Fossil Fuels one year earlier, in MY 2154. I would be in favour of that, as such a faster research rate can be a good argument to leapfrog to D:AP with the drones, as suggested in the chat. What do you think?

	03-01-2004 19:52									#130
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Yes from the Rainy Rolling 2/1/0 onto the 1/2/0 Sea Mineral bonus giving us 1 extra min and saving credits on the Hurrying.

The Battle Ogree is becoming tecnologicaly obsolete as we can soon build units with 6 attack strength anyways. Also if we convert LL to Librarains the Police effect will be un-nessary their, admitidly we could move it to another base that needs police but if we are going to be taking FreeMarket when the war ends ALL our police units will be useless so the Ogree will be good for nothing but minerals at that point. Unless you propose that we send it out to join in the War on PEACE their will be no better use for it then as a Police unit and as such the minerals it represents could prove more usefull then the Unit itself.

Ok with upgrading the scout patrol to Impact Marines if you feel we need it. Sugjest you calculate what kind of defence Casablanca is likly to have on turn 53 when we attack it. We know they will have 1 syth ready, if they dont expect our second transport they will likly not add another (that and the fact theirs a Drone Riot and their dead Broke)

Well we can finish an Aqua Scout relitivly quickly if you fell thats what we need but in any case we can deside this next turn as we will have less then 10 mins. We can finish an Aqua scout at a reasonable cost under this plan or go for a more expensive facility if we wish.

I like the Reserch bost ideas, I will do some math and see if I can predict our future incresse in Lab output due to pop growth and conquest. And if the conversion plan to Logic Loop works well we could hit 100 Lab output before we even take FreeMarket.

	04-01-2004 08:41									#131
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Impaler: Please remember in your orders that when giving orders for bases that have not been founded to confirm that a base is to be founded, and where You gave orders for And/Or Gate, but not it's founding. I have founded it where it was, since otherwise I could not do the orders. Hope that's what was intended. Also, polls for base locations would be nice (if I've missed them then sorry ). Only minor quibbles though, easy to follow orders otherwise

	05-01-2004 03:15									#132
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Well played turn.

Two things I noticed:
May I suggest we add "stockpile energy" to the end of the build queues in Logic Loop and And/Or Gate?
Also that strange bug has happened again: we now got a naval yard for free in Athena Anchorage. May I suggest we scrap it again next year?

	05-01-2004 05:34									#133
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac May I suggest we add "stockpile energy" to the end of the build queues in Logic Loop and And/Or Gate?

Good idea, will do

quote: Originally posted by Maniac Also that strange bug has happened again: we now got a naval yard for free in Athena Anchorage. May I suggest we scrap it again next year?

I will. Strange that, but a nice bonus

	05-01-2004 05:38									#134
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It seems this bug is making a duplicate Navel Yard in the Base that is the most resently aquired before the capture of the PEACE base that triggers the duplication.

Last time we got yard in Binary Bastion which was the last base we founded. Now its in Athena the most resent additon. I predict when we next capture a base we will get a Yard in And/Or Gate. Asuming that And/Or was founded after we took Tripoli.

Also PEACE can not scrap its Navel Yards as they are a freefacility that they get when they reserch Doc: Init.

	05-01-2004 05:46									#135
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Last edited by Drogue on 05-01-2004 at 06:11

	05-01-2004 06:13									#136
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quote: Originally posted by Impaler[WrG] It seems this bug is making a duplicate Navel Yard in the Base that is the most resently aquired before the capture of the PEACE base that triggers the duplication. Last time we got yard in Binary Bastion which was the last base we founded. Now its in Athena the most resent additon. I predict when we next capture a base we will get a Yard in And/Or Gate. Asuming that And/Or was founded after we took Tripoli.

It was. Possibly this is where any new naval yard appears in a different base? I have no idea, but we were owed one by PEACE, and we have one. The fact it's in different base doesn't matter too much, since we are to sell them all

quote: Originally posted by Impaler[WrG] Also PEACE can not scrap its Navel Yards as they are a freefacility that they get when they reserch Doc: Init.

Very true.

	05-01-2004 16:04									#137
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Last year the naval yard appeared in Boolean Bay though, not Binary Bastion. So the theory of the last base founded or captured doesn't work. The only consistency I can see then is that the naval yard appears in the base where our attack force starts the turn near. But it's rather unrealistic this could have something to do with it.

	08-01-2004 21:35									#138
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Here are some tenative 2152 orders.

Portal - New Produciton scout patrol

Logic Loop - Hurry 4 Credits

Triplex - 1 Librarian, 2 doctors, work mineral bonus, Hurry 8 Credits, Scrap Comand Center (if able)m scrap Navel Yard.

Zetaris - Hurry 8 Credits

And/Or Gate - Hurry 14

Apolyton Prime - Crawler

Athena - New Production Rec Common, attack PEACE former with new scout

Aurora - New Production Tanks

Bolean Bay - Crawler

Mythical Matrix - Forest at (79,69) with former on the Nut bonus.

Continue the Formers finishing the Zetaris mine eastward and begin building on (80,66)

Margaritaville - Sugested Rename: Megabyteville, maximize mineral intake, will likly require numerous Doctors.

	08-01-2004 21:53									#139
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Two comments related to External Affairs:

quote: Triplex - Scrap Comand Center

Should we? We can't use the command center right now of course, but it can become handy in a decade or so after we've rebuilt Triplex a little. With all those minerals nearby, Triplex could become a good base for quickly producing units. The cost of maintaining the command center in the years we can't use it yet will most likely be smaller than the cost of rebuilding it later.

quote: Athena - attack PEACE former with new scout

I initially agreed with it when you first proposed it a while ago in a chat, but I've thought about it some further. If we destroy that harmless former now, it will free up one mineral previously used for support cost. Then PEACE will be able to build less harmless units faster.

	09-01-2004 06:36									#140
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I'm with Maniac on both. The CC isn't worth building, but it is worth keeping IMHO. Though remember that ship units built there don't get the upgrade, just land units.

	09-01-2004 19:35									#141
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While I was making the EAF orders, I also ran across quite some possible problems for IAF. I therefore thought I'd include them in a IAF order proposal set. I hope you don't mind this.

Apolyton Prime - due to the capture of MVille a b-drone will be created here. Therefore I'd propose to make the latest worker a doctor and start production on a hologram theatre.

Triplex - produce a boy scout for police duties. Make a doctor a technician. (Due to the energy bank there it will be more lucrative than a librarian)

Logic Loop - create two librarians, hurry one mineral? Add "stockpile energy" to the end of the build queue?

Boolean Bay - move the sea nutrient worker to the moist & rolling farm tile? That will give us one more mineral so the plasma garrison will be finished.

Aurora - crawler so we can get our next secret project faster?

DBTSverse Portal - make the sea mineral worker a doctor to prevent drone riots next turn when the base grows?

Zetaris - hurry 11 credits? 8 will be too little I think.

Mythical Matrix - since we have a doctor there, should we switch production to a rec commons?

And/Or Gate - add "stockpile energy" to the end of the build queue?

Margarittaville - two doctors will be necessary according to my EAF orders test

former (69.79) - plant forest on (69.77)?
former (65.81) - build road there?

	11-01-2004 07:53									#142
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A couple of things Impaler:
Terraforming units are formers, not crawlers. Your "Crawler Orders" were quite confusing being that they were for formers

The rush in And/Or Gate was done for the reasons stated in the turn report:

quote: 2) I did rush the crawler in And/Or Gate 15 mins. That gives us two exytrab turns with crawler, which will presumably mean a net result of 6 nuts extra, for a size 1 base. Combined with the extra mins we are further forward, and the fact that because of the extra ec, we should still get over 200 by next turn, made me think it a very worthwile deal. Checked with Lauri in chat and he agreed, so did it.

I asked Lauri in chat, and he agreed with me. I'm sorry for overruling you, but we still get over 200 ec next turn (in case of Drones tech-buy) and the two turns of crawler time plus the extra 2 turns building the next project seemed too good to miss IMHO.

Also, IMHO SE sliders changes should be polled. I've doen it, sicne we don't research any later, and we both agree on it (turn player and official in charge) but polls would be nice

	12-01-2004 00:16									#143
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Sorry abut that thing with the Cralwers/formers glad you figured it out all right

The SE changes were something that I though of at the last minute so I figured it was too late for a pole, thats why I made them a sugjestion. Will pole any future SE changes.

	12-01-2004 00:29									#144
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That's all great then Don't worry about the crawlers/formers thing, just surprised me a little

	16-01-2004 04:57									#145
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A little thing I noticed: we can get an extra energy by moving a worker from the 1-2-1 forest to the newly planted 1-2-2 river forest.

	16-01-2004 15:08									#146
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Which base? Give me details, and it shall be done

	16-01-2004 15:10									#147
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Oh sorry, I forgot to mention it. Pi Square is the name.

	17-01-2004 03:08									#148
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Dont worry Maniac I already noticed that one, thouse inefficient workers wont slip by me *crack* *crack* "No not their you obsolet cybornetic buckets of bolts back their to the River before I have you Recycled, BAAA!! must I do everything myself"


Internal Affairs 2153

First off Add Stockpile energy as the next item in ALLLLL the build quees.

Apolyton Prime - make the worker currently working the forest energy bonus a Doctor to stop the Riot, change production to a Crawler

Triplex - No change unless Capture of Casablanca, inwhich case redistribute workers to Mineral bonus Mine.

Megabyteville - Change production to Boy scout per say poll results. Put the new worker on 5 Nut bonus (else we get starvation)

Pi Square - Move worker from unrivered to new rivered forest, change production to crawler

Logic Loop - Set new Prodution to Crawler, move the new Crawler on to the Mineral bonus and switch the new crawler to colect thouse Minerals, move the old crawler north to the Forest Energy bonus next to Apolyton Prime that should now be unworked, crawl 4 energy for Logic Loop.

Bolean Bay - New Production Crawler

Portal - New worker to the sea mineral bonus, if the base is not hit with B-Drones then assing the doctor to work the 2/1/0 tile to the north as the Police will be ready next turn and a riot can be avoided.

Aurora - Change production to crawler

Athena - New worker to the Nut bonus

Zetaris - New Production Crawler, send new crawler west into the new forest and Crawl minerals.

Mythical Matrix - No change (this base wont be much use untill we sent it crawlers or rush that Rec Commons)

Binary bastion - No change

And/Or Gate - New Production Former, new Crawler to mineral bonus, Worker to rivered Nut bonus.

Sea Lurk channel - 2 Doctors should be sufficient, work the Nut bonus to return the base to 4 population the next turn, new Production Rec Commons or Boy Scout depending on our ability to bring a garrison unit their. Rehome a Cruiser their too.

Casablanca - If Captured add 1 doctor and work Nuts to regrow base asap, Police will be present in any case so new Production Rec Commons.

Scrap all Navel yards, if we only capture 1 base this is simple and their will be atleast 1, possibly 2 to scrap. If we can capture 2 bases then scrap twice, once after each capture to give the maximum posibility for duplication and incressed energy. I will atempt to test this further if capturing 2 bases is possible.

Formers!!

(69,57) - Move south to (69,61) and start a farm
(72,64) Move both Southwest to(71,65) and start Solar Collectors
(73,67) move north East to (74,66) and start a Mine.
(78,66) use both to build a road
(67,81) move to (69,79) and start Solar colectors


Rename Sea of Indecision to "Sea of Decision"
Rename Bird Island to "Phoinx Island"

Last edited by Impaler[WrG] on 17-01-2004 at 20:16

	17-01-2004 03:32									#149
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Orders looking great.

quote: Apolyton Prime - make the worker currently working the forest energy bonus a Doctor to stop the Riot, change production to a Crawler

Should we also move the (66.66) worker to the free monolith? How did that worker get there btw?

quote: Portal - new Production Former

The new scout patrol is still in mid production. Shouldn't we wait a year with former production?

Edit: Oh yeah, something regarding Triplex. If we capture Casablanca, we can work the seven-min mine near the base.

	19-01-2004 01:37									#150
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quote: Sea Lurk channel - 2 Doctors should be sufficient, work the Sea Nut bonus to return the base to 4 population the next turn

Last turn MBV's nutrient box was full, but had a nutrient surplus of zero IIRC. The base still grew. So Thermal Tassagrad with its full nuts box will grow as well, even if we have 0 surplus. Can I therefore propose we work the sea minerals instead? Then our production will be 4 minerals and we can finish a boy scout of 8 minerals in two turns.