14-03-2004 03:03									#241
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Several former PEACE bases have an RC already. How about letting those start naval vessels?

And for the core territory, a mix of your suggestions seems more in order to me. We can't spare the ec's to hurry several nodes or tree farms in the same turn.
Letting one base start a tree farm, another a military unit and so sounds better to me.

	14-03-2004 03:21									#242
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quote: Originally posted by GeoModder A question, how about building an AC and CC in CyCon now? I propose in Apolyton Prime and Logic Loop

I agree.
How about a command center in Apolyton Prime, and besides that also a Children's Creche because these also give +1 morale?
And for Logic Loop an aerospace complex? If we build a Hologram Theatre there first btw, we could build non-SAM needlejets there without causing a drone riot. Does that sound ok?

The question is then when we have enough money.
I guess these are the most urgent or lucrative facilities that still need to be built and hurried:
Caboolture - Hologram Theatre - some 60 credits
Triplex - Hologram Theatre - 56 credits
Megabyteville- Rec commons - 40 credits
Thermal Tassagrad, Mythical Matrix, Casablanca, Mega Reboot, Calico Island, Abort Retry Fail(ed), Pamplona, Binary Bastion, Atlantis - rec commons - 50 credits each = 450 credits
Apolyton Prime - Command Center and Children's Creche - together some 110 credits
Logic Loop - Hologram Theatre & Aerospace Complex - 200 credits

Together this is some 920 credits. I guess this means we'll have to run 80% economy with CyCon for some 4-5 more turns to reach these goals.

Let's have a look at when we could do what rushes. How about this:
MY 2159: MythMat, Casa, MBV & ThTass rec commons: together some 190 credits. (We need to have some 100 credits left for the PUT turn MY 2160)
MY 2160: Caboolture & Triplex? holo theatre: together some 120 credits; some credits to upgrade some PUT unit to a drop squad; Logic Loop hologram theatre?: 80 credits. Total probably somewhere around 220 credits. Little money left to do anything else. So remaining goals have to be done MY 2161 and later.
Is it therefore ok if we build one more cheap unit (eg a crawler or probe team) in Apolyton Prime before building and hurrying a CoCe or ChCh there?

	14-03-2004 03:47									#243
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Ah I see there have been some other posts while I was writing my previous one.

quote: Originally posted by Impaler[WrG] We basicaly have 4 Choices Focus on Tree Farms, Military Units, Crawlers or Net Nodes in the Core Cycon territory. I would prefer TreeFarms and Crawlers followed by Nodes as we need to start closing the Build gap between us and our enemies.

Tree farms in some CC bases seem a good investment. Unless we want to delay rec commons production though, they'll probably have to wait until after MY 2164.
Re network nodes, I'll repost a post I made in the "Aquiring the Cloning Vats" thread:
"I wonder about the use of building and hurrying network nodes in CyCon bases. Considering an investment of some 140 credits to hurry a network node in a for CyCon norms wealthy base producing 20 energy per year, it would still take some 14 years to win back the investment. So before we decide to hurry network nodes in the Consciousness, we'd need to have a good idea of when and how long we intend to run 80% labs or 80% economy. As long as we're gonna use full economy more than half the time in CyCon, it seems on first sight it would still be better to only build credit-boosting facilities (eg tree farms) in CyCon, and mostly labs-boosting facilities (eg research hospitals) in PUT. We'd need a turn simulator though to test this for sure, and test what combination gives us Biomachinery fastest."

quote: I would rather hold off on military production untill we are shure that war is inevitable.

We already are at war with the Hive. And they haven't sent any PM to us they want to sign a treaty with us. So it is possible we can expect some company soon. Even if the Hive won't strike fully at us, we can also still use the military then to attack the Angels instead.

	14-03-2004 04:20									#244
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Remember Tree Farms Bost Pych by 50% so they may be able give us several more talents in larger bases. I think Logic Loop is a Definate Tree Farm.

Also I belive the +1 Morale of a Childrens Creech aplies only when the unit is IN the base, not when its outside (as it presumably would be).

I will start working out some Budjecting for all the Rec Commons Hurrying.

	14-03-2004 06:01									#245
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ok Here are my Tenative Cycon Build Orders, I focus on building up and Terraforming Cycon and buying up needed Recreation Commons. We still have about 100 Credits left over too, we could spend them on the Probe Foil in Aurora (low priority I belive) or the Sea Former in Portal (a bit better in my opinion) or send them to Uni (probly best option).

Aplyton Prime - New Crawler works new Mine, move the crawler on (69/63) to (70/62) and move the worker back to the Nut bonus Forest so we can stop wasting thouse 2 Nuts a turn. Next Production Former

Athena - New Production Crawler
Atlantis - No Change
Aurora - No Change
Binary - Scrap the scout patrol to add 5 mins to the Rec Commons build and reduce maintance costs
Bolean Bay - move worker from Farm to Rivered Forest, New production Crawler
Calico - Change Production to Rec Commons
Casablanca - put the Doctor on the Monolith and Hurry 44 Credits
Portal - No change
Lair - new Production Childrens Creech, this will save us a lot of Efficiency energy and hurry growth
Logic Loop - No Change
Reboot - Change Production to Rec Commons
MBV - Hurry 28 Credits, work the Forest and use 1 Doctor (the Cruiser must be ReHomed to another base to avoid Riots)
Matrix - Hurry 48 Credits, work the forest
Pi Square - Hurry 7 Credits
Thermal - Hurry 44 Credits, work the Ocean Nut bonuses and use 1 Doctor
Triplex - New Production Crawler
Zet - New Production Crawler, move worker from the forest to the new mine
And/Or Gate - Change Production to Rec Commons (we cant finish that Pod with only 1 Pop and we cant grow without more nuts)
Abort/Retry/Failed - No Change

Formers

(74/72) West to (72/72) Road
(67/81) North to (66/68) Mine (to be assisted by the formers on (69/75) as soon as their finished with that mine)
(72/56) THERMAL BORE HOLE (its about time we started one, formers finshing mines to the south will move up and assist so it can be completed in a timly fashion)
(70/66) North to assist BoreHole
(70/66) East to (72/66) Road then Mine
(74/66) Both West to (72/66) Road then Mine
(81/65) North to (81/61) to start Road and Mine (the second former will follow next turn.

	14-03-2004 13:10									#246
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When do I get my cruisers and interceptors?

Edit:

The Hive has shown it's willingness to pursue war now. I therefore want to press for at least 1 Aerospace Complex and 1 Command Center in our core territory. I'm willing to let Logic Loop build a tree farm first, but after that it MUST be a military building and devoted to unit production.

Apolyton Prime should start a AC ASAP. I think Hive is capable for knocking on Apolyton Prime's doors in 10 turns if we don't do anything. It will surely take that long before your building-up program will be finished, thus a production mix continues the best option IMO.

Last edited by GeoModder on 14-03-2004 at 17:44

	19-03-2004 00:51									#247
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Ok here are some tenative build orders for Cycon, its very hard to plan with the situation so up in the Air we arnt shure WHO we will be at war with if anyone.

AP - Move worker to Nut bonus DUUU, no change besides that
Portal - Hurry 44 Credits
Athena - No Change
Atlantis - No Change
Aurora - Hurry 40 Credits
Binary - Scrap the Scout as I sugjested last turn, this will free up maintance and provide 5 mins, this base has been stagnated for 20 years it needs to get building NOW.
Bolean Bay - Change to Crawler
Casablanca - Ne Production Crawler
Lair - No Change
Logic Loop - Start Tree Farm
MBV - Full Hurry the Rec Commons, get the Cruiser Rehomed to Atlantis to stop the Drones or the base will STARVE!
Matrix - New Production Crawler
Paradigma - Change name to Paradigm (thats the proper spelling), no other changes
Pi Square - Hurry 10 Credits
Thermal - Military Production, I would Sugjest another SpiteFire or an AirSuperiority Navel Vessel.
Triplex - Change the Tecnician to a worker on the Forest
Zetaris - Hurry 4
Abort Retry Failed - Hurry 12
And/Or Gate - Hurry 24

Formers I was planing to focus on Mines for incressed Min income, I also want to Cancel the Forest that was started next to Portal against my wishes and start on the BoreHole that I originaly sugested, we can realy use thouse minerals and Energy their. That base is in a very strategic position and should be a strong point, it needs more Mins for that.

	19-03-2004 13:28									#248
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Plan for war with both Hive and Drones. IMO that is the likely outcome.

	19-03-2004 16:53									#249
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quote: Originally posted by Arnelos This issue has already been settled. The Hive will not be backstabbing the Drones. +1

Looks like we will be fighting both.

	20-03-2004 03:48									#250
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quote: Originally posted by Skanky Burns Plan for war with both Hive and Drones. IMO that is the likely outcome.

I can do so when I can open the PUT turn.

	20-03-2004 06:09									#251
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Well, I think we can just about write off PUT... it has four bases still standing (Daintree, Gardens Point, Cairns, and Caboolture), defended by a grand total of 1 Battle Ogre (in Gardens Point), and 1 Trance Scout unit (in Caboolture).

	20-03-2004 06:23									#252
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Caboolture will probably be the last standing base.
For a more detailed briefing about my proposals, please read the 'Military Affairs Function' thread. I intend to let PUT use whatever military unit it has. Such a move gives CyCon one more turn to start producing military units, and perhaps just enough time to make an surprise assault to the Hive/Drones.

	22-03-2004 01:58									#253
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Ok here are some tenative Cycon Plans


Portal - Switch to AiroPlex (I think we can wait a turn to hurry it as theirs no way Hive or Drones could drop near their next turn.
Zetaris - move worker from farm to forest
Matrix - Plasma Garrison or other military
Aurora - Hurry 34 Credits
Bolean Bay - change to Crawler, worker from farm to forest
Athena - Crawler, work forests
Casablanca - Navel unit or other Military
Lair - switch to Navel unit or other Military
Thermal - Worker from small nut bonus to Forest, Military
Triplex - Change to a Spitfire perhaps? If so Hurry 20 Credits
MBV - For the last time get that Cruiser back in our territory and rehome it to Atlantis, after that work 2 forests and the Min bonus. Hurry RC 38 Credits.
Logic Loop - forgo the TreeFarm and start on something Military, an AiroPlex perhaps for good AirCraft production.

It might still be worthwial to hurry some of the Rec Commons in the smaller western PEACE bases in a few more turns once they reach 10 acumulation, after that they could start builing smaller units that we could then upgrade with Credits.

	22-03-2004 02:21									#254
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Martial tentative production orders:

Athena Anchorage: SAM missile cruiser
Atlantis: some sort of scout
Aurora: hurry probe skimship
Binary Bastion: Sea Colony Pod
Boolean Bay: frankly, no idea. A missile drop unit?
Casablanca: transport cruiser
DBTSverse Portal: switch to Aerospace Complex and hurry (about 100 ec)
Liar's Lair: SAM missile cruiser or transport cruiser.
Locutus of Chiron: sea colony pod?
Logic Loop: prototype Missile Chopper
Mega Reboot: some sort of scout or crawler?
MegabyteVille: hurry Rec Commons (we almost have no choice there, or let the pop die out)
Mythical Matrix: crawler or probe team
Paradigm(a): some sort of scout
Thermal Tassagrad: missile drop scout or SAM missile cruiser
Zetaris: Missile Rover

Let's see how they differ, Impaler.

	22-03-2004 12:05									#255
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I would still like to produce a few Crawlers in Trantor, we can use smaller bases like Zetaris and Matrix to produces them ofcorse.

My idea is that we are going to be attacking and Probing our enemies we might get Intilecual Integrity in which case we would REALY REALY want to grab the CDF by crawler upgrading and we dont want to losse our current crawlers as their going to be making most of our military at this point.

Binary Bastion might also be a good place to hurry a RC, we can start working a forest and add 2 minerals to the bases output, if we dont want to scrap the Scout down their lets atleast move it north ware it can rehome. Binary can then become a Crawler production center and feed crawlers north ware they can work our new mines or be cashed for a project.

	22-03-2004 18:19									#256
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Seems a good choice: small bases still work on the civilian units, and the larger ones produce military.

How about these orders, Impaler?

CyCon martial, but tentative former moves MY 2160

• Formers on 70.64 and 70.66 move to 69.73 and construct a sensor there.
  
• Former on 74.66 goes to And/Or Gate. For sensor construction on that mineral tile north of the base.
  
• Formers on 70.68 towards Pi Square for sensor construction there.

The idea is that that whole bunch of formers around Apolyton Prime goes north building sensors on the way. In three turns most of them can be around DBTSverse Portal and construct or plant whatever you want (next to a sensor off course)

Last edited by GeoModder on 22-03-2004 at 18:50

	22-03-2004 19:09									#257
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I would send them North to Portal area only if I can Build a BoreHole when they get their, otherwise theirs not much use and it would be better to build Mines in Central Trantor. Sensors are an excelent idea though and I would propose we cancel that forest next to Portal and produce a Sensor Aray a bit to the south with the help of atleast a second former, we should be able to get it far enough away from Cairns that Hive Aircraft wont be able to destroy the Sensor but for it to still cover Portal. That along with the AiroPlex will give a +150% Defense to the base, we should move scout and upgrade them to Plasma Garrison BUT NOT trance garrison as we want to be able to upgrade to AAA and I belive that will make the upgrade more expensive.

After that we will want a Perimiter Defence and more Garrisons.

We might also consider that the land north of And/Or gate is within Drop Range of Cairns (we should try to find a way to destroy Cairns if its take by the enemy). If we start a size 1 base up their and build an Airoplex we can prevent them from Dropping.

Also I am wonding if our intercepters should be assigned to Auto Air Defence, I am not asdsactly shure of the best way to defend from copter attacks. I have had units start flying around in stupid ways when put on auto. I seem to remember their is some way for the Aircraft to automaticly fly out when an enemy aircraft comes withing 2 spaces and attack it. If our Spitfires could do that it would be excelent defence vs Drone and Hive Copters.

	22-03-2004 19:27									#258
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Good I took a last look. I only will change or start base productions now. I'll mail the midturn to you and Maniac. Could either of you who is first put it in the turn tracking thread?

As for auto air defense, I think for DBTS it is best to let planes or choppers defend the base itself. The enemy choppers their range is not enough to go much south of DBTS, unless on a suicide run.

About creating a second base north of And/Or Gate, I had similar thoughts, but then And/Or Gate must start a cp now.

	22-03-2004 19:47									#259
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And/Or needs to finish its Rec Commons first, we can make a Colony Pod in Matrix in needed

	22-03-2004 20:54									#260
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Ah ok, that was one of the inconsistencies

But the problem with cancelling the forest plant near DBTS is that the base has no productive tiles around any more. Look for yourself on the midsave.

	22-03-2004 21:24									#261
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Thats why I wanted to build a BoreHole their, but if I remember correctly SOMEONE desided to disregard all my former orders a ways back.

It may be too dangerous though to do so now, Can you assure me that we will have Air Defences in the area that could intercept any Copters that might try to Destroy the formers?

I will go make some more detailed formers orders, will post them in a bit.

	22-03-2004 22:04									#262
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ok here is an idea we could build a BoreHole on the Energy Bonus right next to Apolyton Prime, that replace the forest with a 6 mineral, 10 Energy Bore Hole that would shoot up the productivity of AP significantly. Their are 6 Formers all in a line their that can start production this turn and complete the BoreHole in only 4 turns !!!

Other formers moves would be as follows

81/65 - North to help build that mine
69/77 - North to help build the mine on the Mineral bonus
72/72 - Road
74/66 - Move north to Portal (will help build sensors)
Crawler working on forest next to Portal, cancel forest and start Sensor. Yes your correct Geo that Portal has no additonal terraformed squares in its Radius but the next worker point of Population will be a Drone anyways so I sugjest we stop harvesting that Nut bonus and move the Crawler south ware it can harvest from a Mine.

Also I recomend we get that Rec Commons in And/Or once that worker gets out their collecting Nuts the base will grow to size 2 and still be under control.

And Binary Bastion should be changed back to Rec Commons, the worker that will be freed up will collect more then a former would and we can then move the other worker onto forest aswell giving us maximum mineral intake very quickly, then we can start on the Crawler.

Finaly, Casablanca dose not need a Doctor, its wont experience a Drone untill 4 Population so get that worker back to work!

	23-03-2004 00:13									#263
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quote: Originally posted by Impaler[WrG] It may be too dangerous though to do so now, Can you assure me that we will have Air Defences in the area that could intercept any Copters that might try to Destroy the formers?

This turn a missile interceptor can land in Pi Square, next turn it is DBTS, which will have a completed AC then. I can send the spitfire as well to DBTS.

quote: Originally posted by Impaler[WrG] ok here is an idea we could build a BoreHole on the Energy Bonus right next to Apolyton Prime, that replace the forest with a 6 mineral, 10 Energy Bore Hole that would shoot up the productivity of AP significantly. Their are 6 Formers all in a line their that can start production this turn and complete the BoreHole in only 4 turns !!!

Good plan

quote: Originally posted by Impaler[WrG] Other formers moves would be as follows 81/65 - North to help build that mine 69/77 - North to help build the mine on the Mineral bonus 72/72 - Road 74/66 - Move north to Portal (will help build sensors) Crawler working on forest next to Portal, cancel forest and start Sensor. Yes your correct Geo that Portal has no additonal terraformed squares in its Radius but the next worker point of Population will be a Drone anyways so I sugjest we stop harvesting that Nut bonus and move the Crawler south ware it can harvest from a Mine. Also I recomend we get that Rec Commons in And/Or once that worker gets out their collecting Nuts the base will grow to size 2 and still be under control. And Binary Bastion should be changed back to Rec Commons, the worker that will be freed up will collect more then a former would and we can then move the other worker onto forest aswell giving us maximum mineral intake very quickly, then we can start on the Crawler. Finaly, Casablanca dose not need a Doctor, its wont experience a Drone untill 4 Population so get that worker back to work!

Ok, I change these things back

	03-04-2004 21:12									#264
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The following orders are offcourse overridable by the Internal Affairs Function

CyCon tentative Internal orders, MY 1261.

• DBTSverse Portal starts interceptor missile chopper production.
  
• Hurry xmissile chopper production in Logic Loop.
  
• Apolyton Prime starts drop missile infantry.
  
• Binary Bastion starts crawler?
  
• Former on 69.75 moves 1 tile north, helps sensor production, former on 72.72 moves to 74.72, starts sensor production.

	03-04-2004 23:11									#265
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quote: Originally posted by GeoModder From this turn on a lot of our units will leave our territory. Can drones be kept in check or is it necessary we switch to planned economy?

Maybe someone should make a test, and report if much drones appear before the turn is actually played by me.

	09-04-2004 19:50									#266
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A lot of drones do appear when the military moves are done.
It is (IMO) necessary to switch to Planned again.
Changing the Psych allocation in SE to 30% is sufficient in Planned to quell drones.

Things to watch for: switch that technician in Triplex to Doctor.
No drones in Liar's Lair allowed, that production must finish.
A doctor in Logic Loop can be switched to worker then, production will finish.
Pi Square, start drop probe team.
Binary Bastion, start crawler, watch for drones.

	09-04-2004 20:27									#267
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Shouldn`t we poll about SE changes? Does anyone oppose that?

	09-04-2004 20:39									#268
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Ok to me, make a poll if you think it's necessary.

	09-04-2004 21:59									#269
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Last things: hurry order: logic loop (x missle copter) 22 credits : approved (we have 65 left). Or should we save energy? Should we hurry other things also?
69,75 and 72,72 formers need sth smart to do. Any suggestions? a sensor array perhaps?

	09-04-2004 22:09									#270
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Hurry if necessary, perhaps move formers more to Aurora and construct sensor there? IAF is not my cup of tea ATM