01-02-2004 20:41									#181
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You can only scrap one facility type each turn so if we Scrap a Navel Yard (from taking Henry Morgans Boot) then we cant scrap the Energy Banks on that turn. As we should be taking a base everyturn for the next few turns that means we will be scraping Navel Yards every turn and cant get the Energy Bank in their untill their are no more Navel Yards to scrap.

	01-02-2004 20:48									#182
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Besides, I recommend to wait with scrapping it till PEG is finished. It's a few extra energy.

	01-02-2004 23:03									#183
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[QUOTE] Originally posted by Impaler[WrG] Aployton Prime- Hurry crawler, estimate 16 Credits [QUOTE]

Production has only started, and when I try to hurry it, it costs 96 credits?
Instead, I recommend changing to building a missile unit there or a command center.
Perhaps missile unit better in a seabase as to make it a naval unit.

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Impaler[WrG]
Triplex - Convert both Doctors to Tecnicians (should have been done last turn with the Rec Commons about to reach completion). New Production could be Crawler, Transport or Plasma Garrison, I will start a poll to this effect.[QUOTE]

I recommend Plasma Garrison, and perhaps a transport in Athena Anchorage? To bring those 2 probe teams in Triplex away later?

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Impaler[WrG] Lair - Change Production to Rec Commons (I am assuming the Plasma Garrison will be staying their, is this correct or still under debate?)[QUOTE]

Definitely a rec commons. And read my proposal in EAF as for having a Plasma Garrison inthere.

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Impaler[WrG] Thermal - Produce Rec Commons, work the Nut bonus to prevent the population from being reduced[QUOTE]

Agreed!

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Impaler[WrG] Zetaris - New Production the PEG!!! Cash all 3 MK9 Crawlers and the new crawler in Zetaris. Move a worker from the forest onto the now unworked Mine. If the project isnt down to 1 turn then full hurry it.[QUOTE]



[QUOTE] Originally posted by Impaler[WrG] Casablanca - Change Production to Rec commons[QUOTE]

Again, I agree. I like to have rec commons in bases since it seems we're gonna have a long war before us, thus drones will pop up everywhere at random when we start re-taking PUT bases. Military production should be done at the larger and happier bases anyway.

	02-02-2004 06:56									#184
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quote: Originally posted by Impaler[WrG] You can only scrap one facility type each turn

In my experience the only limit is one facility per base - doesn't matter what type.

Anyway, let's wait one more turn indeed as GeoModder suggests.

	02-02-2004 15:50									#185
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Maniac In my experience the only limit is one facility per base - doesn't matter what type. Anyway, let's wait one more turn indeed as GeoModder suggests.

Agree with both claims.

	07-02-2004 21:13									#186
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IIRC people liked the idea of building another transport(s). But where? Two good possibilities I see are Athena Anchorage (will finish rec commons) and Pi Square (can be switched from crawler to transport production without a penalty atm). Build one in neither base, one of those bases, or both bases??

Edit: Oh yeah, how about switching production from a crawler to Aerospace Complex in Logic Loop?

Last edited by Maniac on 07-02-2004 at 21:26

	08-02-2004 03:06									#187
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac IIRC people liked the idea of building another transport(s). But where? Two good possibilities I see are Athena Anchorage (will finish rec commons) and Pi Square (can be switched from crawler to transport production without a penalty atm). Edit: Oh yeah, how about switching production from a crawler to Aerospace Complex in Logic Loop?

Logic Loop? Agreed.
Athena? Agreed.
Pi Square? perhaps AFTER finishing the crawler. We'll need some more if NA will be started for replacement.

	08-02-2004 20:35									#188
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Ok, agreed.

Next idea: How about these CyCon former orders?

(69.79): forest (69.77)
(76.72): build road to (71.71)
(71.65): build mine on (70.66)
(79.67-9): plant forest on (78.66), while waiting for former to complete road on (80.66)

	09-02-2004 15:16									#189
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Ok, agreed. Next idea: How about these CyCon former orders? (69.79): forest (69.77) (76.72): build road to (71.71) (71.65): build mine on (70.66) (79.67-9): plant forest on (78.66), while waiting for former to complete road on (80.66)

All those forests Time to build tree farms then
Btw, I would start saving energy for quick building NA as well. How much we need? 330 energy again?

	10-02-2004 00:17									#190
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Now that we have access to Ecological Enginering (Uni can send it when ever we wish) I think we should make mines a higher priority, most of our bases have enough forests for workers so additional ones will be crawled in which case a mine is twice as nice and a more efficient use of our crawlers.

I belive we have a mine under construction in the Zetaris area and their are some solar panels finishing up nearby, lets send atleast one of thouse formers to the mine to finish it up.

Also I think we should start generating MAX Credits soon. So lets bumb our Econ % up to 60 or 70. Now that we have the PEG and Uni to do reserch for us the Cycon Empire should focus on Econ and building up valuable Facilites (such as TreeFarms, which will further multiply our Econ output)

	10-02-2004 00:48									#191
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As some of you may have heard my computer died resently so I will again be unable to fuffill my Internal Affairs responsibilites.

If its agreeable to everyone I would like to hand responsibility over the Internal Affairs Office to GeoModder for the remainder of the Febuary term. He has shown a high level of activity in the game and regularly partisipates in these internal Affairs discussions.

As such time that my new computer is delivered I would then like to run for Internal Affairs once again or should Geo also run for that position and win, I would like to serve as the Auilery IAF as I would hope Geo would if the situation were reversed.

I will also start some topics conserning how our goverment positions should be changed in the future.

	10-02-2004 01:44									#192
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quote: Originally posted by Impaler[WrG] If its agreeable to everyone I would like to hand responsibility over the Internal Affairs Office to GeoModder for the remainder of the Febuary term. He has shown a high level of activity in the game and regularly partisipates in these internal Affairs discussions.

If there are no objections from other members, I will gladly except the position. Anytime you're able to participate full time again, feel free to ask for the office again. And any hints are welcome.

	10-02-2004 02:24									#193
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quote: Now that we have access to Ecological Enginering (Uni can send it when ever we wish)

CyCon already has EcoEng from PUT.

quote: I belive we have a mine under construction in the Zetaris area

Indeed, and there are two formers in that neighbourhood (79.67-9) which can be sent there. However doing so would cost a full turn of movement where those formers can't do anything. Therefore I proposed to plant a forest on (78.66), and after that move to build the mine. They will arrive at the mine a turn later this way, but no former turns will be wasted, and we can get an extra forest.

quote: and their are some solar panels finishing up nearby, lets send atleast one of thouse formers to the mine to finish it up.

That would be good, but here again, they would have to move for a full turn to get to the mine square. Therefore I'd propose to send them to build a mine on (70.66) instead. Is that also ok?

quote: Also I think we should start generating MAX Credits soon. So lets bumb our Econ % up to 60 or 70.

quote: If there are no objections from other members, I will gladly except the position.

	10-02-2004 03:30									#194
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(69.79): forest (69.77) --> alternative, forest op 67,79?
or else a road on 69.79? Not strictly needed, I know.

(76.72): build road to (71.71) --> ok for me
(71.65): build mine on (70.66) --> also ok
(79.67-9): plant forest on (78.66), while waiting for former to complete road on (80.66) --> and a triple ok, but moving to mining construction by Zetaris. That road will take 3 more turns.

	13-02-2004 03:34									#195
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quote: Originally posted by GeoModder (69.79): forest (69.77) --> alternative, forest op 67,79?

A valid possibility too of course. For the record, my reason to suggest (69.77) was that tile profits from a river energy bonus, and also I was thinking we should gradually move formers to high altitude terrain (in other words: to the north, for these two formers) and terraform that. That way if there's a sea level raise after all, all the current work won't be submerged.

	13-02-2004 06:05									#196
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac A valid possibility too of course. For the record, my reason to suggest (69.77) was that tile profits from a river energy bonus, and also I was thinking we should gradually move formers to high altitude terrain (in other words: to the north, for these two formers) and terraform that. That way if there's a sea level raise after all, all the current work won't be submerged.

Mmm, haven't checked the hight of 69.77, probably IS low since it's a river tile near the sea. I'll check. But I can agree with moving formers north WHEN there is enough planted/constructed on that southern peninsula.
Again, need to check. Luckily we got an extra few days to decide now

	16-02-2004 23:06									#197
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Any further thoughts? Some comments:

quote: Mmm, haven't checked the hight of 69.77, probably IS low since it's a river tile near the sea.

(69.77) is higher than 67,79 IIRC.

quote: But I can agree with moving formers north WHEN there is enough planted/constructed on that southern peninsula.

Seems like a sound plan. We still have a former in the extreme south, though, and Binary Bastion and Boolean Bay are growing very slowly IIRC.

	17-02-2004 04:29									#198
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac (69.77) is higher than 67,79 IIRC.

256 m at the shore, is near the danger level for a sea level rise caused by the council...

quote: Originally posted by Maniac (69.77) is higher than 67,79 IIRC.

We still have a former in the extreme south, though, and Binary Bastion and Boolean Bay are growing very slowly IIRC. [/QUOTE]

But ok, if that former there plants a few forests later in the middle of that peninsula, I'm happy. Let's terraform 69.77.

Some IAF proposals:

Triplex: scrap Energy Bank and watch out! There is a Hologram Theatre in the production list!!!
Logic Loop: hurry crawler, cost only 3 or 4 energy
Thermal Tassadar: RecCom or Sea Former
HMB and LA: scrap Naval Yard
Zetaris: Missile Cruiser or Children Creche
Apolyton Prime: Aerospace Complex
Athena Anchorage: Transport
Aurora: Probe Skimship
Casablanca: RecCom
HMB: does it need to be a trance scout?

Suggestion for renames:
LA --> Abort-Retry-Fail(ed) to remember some other factions the error of their behaviour
Liar's Lair --> 'Misinformation' something
HMB: No fantasy yet

	17-02-2004 06:51									#199
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Ah, an edited IAF post I see.
There are a few differences with the production orders I set. Though they can of course still be changed.

quote: Let's terraform 69.77.

Thanks.

quote: Triplex: scrap Energy Bank and watch out! There is a Hologram Theatre in the production list!!!

Good catch. Replace it by "stockpile energy" I guess?

quote: Logic Loop: hurry crawler, cost only 3 or 4 energy

Will do so.

quote: Thermal Tassadar: RecCom or Sea Former

That base has two doctors, so better a rec commons first IMHO.

quote: HMB and LA: scrap Naval Yard

I again couldn't scrap the HMB naval yard this year. And LA's one was destroyed upon base capture.

quote: Zetaris: Missile Cruiser or Children Creche

Really? No rec commons?? That base hasn't got one yet, so if we go free market, it'll have drone problems. Hold a poll about it?

quote: Apolyton Prime: Aerospace Complex

With AP's current production, that would take 11 years. How about we wait with building such expensive facilities until we have enough money to hurry them in one turn, and build crawlers or other quickly-built units in those bases in the meanwhile? With the PEG we should hopefully have enough money to do lots of hurrying in many CPU bases.

quote: Athena Anchorage: Transport

Done. Athena's production has temporarily decreased due to a worker shift to speed up base growth, but production should be back on normal level in one or two years.

quote: Aurora: Probe Skimship

Okay, I'll switch from sea former to probe skimship.

quote: Casablanca: RecCom

Done.

quote: HMB: does it need to be a trance scout?

What instead? Rec commons? Or plasma garrison? (that last would be unnecessary though IMO - AFAIK we only need a small garrison to defend against possible mind worms etc)

***
Btw, can someone come up with some masterplan to prevent Mega Reboot (HMB) from starving while at the same time prevent a drone riot??

Also, about the new AP crawler, can I suggest to move it two tiles east to harvest that forest, and then next year move it further to the mineral bonus square, and harvest that one for Apolyton Prime?

	17-02-2004 19:13									#200
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Ah, an edited IAF post I see.

Happens all the time...

quote: Originally posted by Maniac That base has two doctors, so better a rec commons first IMHO.

Mmm, ok for now...

quote: Originally posted by Maniac I again couldn't scrap the HMB naval yard this year.

I seems that only 1 kind of facility can be scrapped then a year. Perhaps next turn when we have Pampalona scrap 'all naval yards'. Shouldn't be a problem then.

quote: Originally posted by Maniac Really? No rec commons?? That base hasn't got one yet, so if we go free market, it'll have drone problems. Hold a poll about it?

Base growth is stagnant, IMO no FM for the next 2 turns since we're still at war, and when switching to FM you suggest a 20 psych energy allocation. Wouldn't that keep drones inthere at bay? I still endorse children creche.

quote: Originally posted by Maniac With AP's current production, that would take 11 years. How about we wait with building such expensive facilities until we have enough money to hurry them in one turn, and build crawlers or other quickly-built units in those bases in the meanwhile?

How about recycling center? 4 turns. 1 more then a crawler.

quote: Originally posted by Maniac AFAIK we only need a small garrison to defend against possible mind worms etc)

Ok, you got a point, but take that plasma garrison out of HMB at first opportunity

quote: Originally posted by Maniac Btw, can someone come up with some masterplan to prevent Mega Reboot (HMB) from starving while at the same time prevent a drone riot??

Yes, quickly hold a poll to release you from turnplayer status, support another one who hasn't opened the 2156 turn yet and let that probe near LA mind control the crawler inbetween those bases.

I now, gods above, it's cheating Never mind...

quote: Originally posted by Maniac and then next year move it further to the mineral bonus square, and harvest that one for Apolyton Prime?

That jeopardizes (bat spelling, sorry) the mineral amount of Zetaris.

	17-02-2004 19:15									#201
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A little side note: LA has a plasma garrison for stays. I suggest a Command Center as production. Can be handy as a southern mil. units building base by conflict with Angels or Hive.

	17-02-2004 19:57									#202
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Some last minute confirmations and orders:

formers on 71.65 move to 70.66 and construct a mine
former on 76.72 continuous road building to LL
formers on 79.69 and 79.67 plant a forest on 79.67
mover the formers on 69.79 by the river to 69.77 (no road on 69.79)
The Impact Marines on 38.70 clean the mess PEACE left behind
the ship on 63.57 moves to Phenix Isle (Mart has problems with seasickness)

Btw, the crawler production in LL is meant for the building of the NA in BB, or not?

	18-02-2004 01:24									#203
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quote: Base growth is stagnant, IMO no FM for the next 2 turns since we're still at war, and when switching to FM you suggest a 20 psych energy allocation. Wouldn't that keep drones inthere at bay? I still endorse children creche.

Indeed, with 20% psych a rec commons wouldn't be necessary for now.
I don't see the use for a Children's Creche though. As you say, base growth is stagnant, so +2 Growth doesn't matter, and it doesn't have real efficiency problems either.
Anyway, I made a poll with the choice between a Children's Creche and a crawler.

quote: A little side note: LA has a plasma garrison for stays. I suggest a Command Center as production. Can be handy as a southern mil. units building base by conflict with Angels or Hive.

That base produces three minerals at the moment. Can it build many units??

quote: formers on 79.69 and 79.67 plant a forest on 79.67

For all clarity, what do you plan to do next with these formers? Move west to help build that mine near Zetaris? Or move east to build a road towards And/Or Gate?

	18-02-2004 01:45									#204
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac I don't see the use for a Children's Creche though. As you say, base growth is stagnant, so +2 Growth doesn't matter,

Hug? Thus a +2 growth wouldn't stimulate population growth again? Ok, some wrongthinking of me then. Well then, A missile cruiser is another possibility.

quote: Originally posted by Maniac That base produces three minerals at the moment. Can it build many units??

That base grows, but yes, I suppose the next worker will be a drone. Trance scout won't help against that though. How about RecTanks? Takes as much time as a Command Center.

quote: Originally posted by Maniac For all clarity, what do you plan to do next with these formers? Move west to help build that mine near Zetaris? Or move east to build a road towards And/Or Gate?

Split them up afterwards. Planting forests takes 2 turns. By then that road is finished so one of the planting formers can jump over and starts building a road on the last tile to And/Or Gate. The second can go two that mine building near Zetaris. Won't send all two for the mine since by the time they're there are only two construction turns left, so I think the assistance of one former is enough.

	18-02-2004 01:52									#205
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quote: Originally posted by GeoModder Split them up afterwards.

Ok, I agree. Then there is a small inefficiency though. If we plant the forest on (79.67), then it will take a full turn to move to the Zetarian mine in construction. If we'd plant the forest one tile more to the NW, the former would only take 2/3 of a movement point to move to the mine square, and it could already help with the construction in the same turn.
On the other side though that square is some 350 metres lower than (79.67), so it can be submerged quicker.
So what to do?

	18-02-2004 02:38									#206
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If you insist, I won't discuss about planting it on a lower tile. In 20-30 turns that starting forest will outgrow other tiles nearby anyway, so that's no real difference. But if you plant it on the NW tile, I suggest moving BOTH formers to the mine construction near Zetaris after planting. Might be an idea for moving that Apolyton Prime crawler to a mine near Zetaris, while not intervening to much in the mineral output of Zetaris.

	21-02-2004 22:29									#207
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quote: Originally posted by GeoModder That jeopardizes (bat spelling, sorry) the mineral amount of Zetaris.

Okay. In that case let's rehome the crawler to Zetaris before letting it harvest the mineral mine.
However as a consequence of this Apolyton Prime's mineral production won't be boosted to a more decent level. Therefore I would vote against building a aerospace complex or command center there as unit production would go too slow.
IMHO we should either crawler as many minerals as possible to Zetaris, or crawler as many minerals as possible to Apolyton Prime, to make one of them a good military production center. Dividing crawlers over the two bases to get two mediocre military production bases (and twice having to build and maintain military morale boosting facilities etc) instead of one large center is inefficient IMO.

quote: But if you plant it on the NW tile, I suggest moving BOTH formers to the mine construction near Zetaris after planting.

Ok.

***

Btw, some suggestions for the PUT turn:
Kelvin Grove & Carseldine: new production Trance Plasma Garrison. Or something more fancy like a missile rover or so?

Caboolture: new production former? The speed of our population growth and crawler production is higher than our terraformation speed atm - we're running out of well-terraformed tiles.

Gardens Point: hurry with 20 credits.

Daintree & Longreach: change production to colony pods. Personally I think these times of a possible Drone invasion aren't really perfect for founding new bases but both Archaic and GeoModder are in favour, so the majority has decided.

	21-02-2004 22:50									#208
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Maniac Okay. In that case let's rehome the crawler to Zetaris before letting it harvest the mineral mine.

Forget this, let that crawler bring minerals to Apolyton, and switch that Zetaris mine then to the NW forest of Zetaris base screen. Production of the RecCom is a bit slower, but the base grows again and the facility will be finished in time to avoid drones.

quote: Originally posted by Maniac Kelvin Grove & Carseldine: new production Trance Plasma Garrison. Or something more fancy like a missile rover or so?

I would let them produce all the plasma steel garrison we need first. perhaps even a lot for CC later.

quote: Originally posted by Maniac Caboolture: new production former? The speed of our population growth and crawler production is higher than our terraformation speed atm - we're running out of well-terraformed tiles.

That base has no need for a former ATM, 18 turns for growth. Also, still no transport available for moving units from Caboolture to the main PUT land.
I suggest Research Hospital, and then a former.
Think about it, PUT is our researcher now, and with your FM proposal, CC won't research anything the next 8 turns. And perhaps we lose that drone there then.

quote: Originally posted by Maniac Gardens Point: hurry with 20 credits. Daintree & Longreach: change production to colony pods.

for both

	22-02-2004 00:00									#209
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quote: Originally posted by GeoModder Forget this, let that crawler bring minerals to Apolyton, and switch that Zetaris mine then to the NW forest of Zetaris base screen.

Ok.

quote: Production of the RecCom is a bit slower, but the base grows again and the facility will be finished in time to avoid drones.

Zetaris still continuing rec commons was an oversight of mine. As you pointed out a while ago, Zetaris doesn't need a rec commons under FM with 20% psych. So in the poll I posted the previous turn I put a crawler instead of a rec commons in as an option, and that won. So I'll change it to that this turn.

quote: I would let them produce all the plasma steel garrison we need first. perhaps even a lot for CC later.

Ok.

quote: That base has no need for a former ATM, 18 turns for growth.

Caboolture isn't connected yet by road to the other PUT bases. A former could do so.

quote: Also, still no transport available for moving units from Caboolture to the main PUT land.

Caboolture is on the main PUT continent.

quote: I suggest Research Hospital, and then a former. Think about it, PUT is our researcher now, and with your FM proposal, CC won't research anything the next 8 turns. And perhaps we lose that drone there then.

Good suggestion for a research hospital. Though without any credit investments in the project it would take 11 years to finish it. Therefore I'd suggest we only start production on it if we have enough credits to hurry it immediately. If we let the Consciousness go 80% economy, we should get the necessary amount of cash soon though.

	25-02-2004 03:25									#210
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Tentative IAF production proposals for CyCon

- Boolean Bay: SP NG
- DBTSverse Portal: Seaformer
- Logic Loop: Supply Crawler, Command Center or Aerospace Complex. I'll gues a poll will come out of this
- Pi Square: Hurry crawler production, costs 7 or 8 energy
- Triplex: start with Plasma Garrison (side note, why not building Trance Plasma Garrisons? Costs are the same).
- Zetaris: 1 mineral will be lost by changing production to crawler
- Calico: Trance Scout
- Abort Retry Fail(ed): Command Center or Recreation Commons.
- Binary Bastion: Hurry production, will cost 18 energy I think.
- And/Or Gate: Research Hospital, in combination with that rover on 84,58 to 81,57 (pod popping). If no production finish, switch to colony pod.

Some unit movements:

- And/Or former to 81, 65. Start road building
- Former on 69,71 moves to 70,66. Assist mine construction. Alternative is going to DBTSverse Portal for assisting the former there.
- DBTSverse Portal former to 72,65. Start a road.
- Logic Loop crawler to 67,73. Harvest minerals from that forest.