14-08-2003 06:09									#1
	The War VS. GCA: Turn by Turn Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Okay, this is the thread which will be officially dedicated to the war against GCA. Initial planning, and ongoing discussion about the war should go in this thread.

It is now turn 'X', where 'X' is a situation on a turn not planned for. So don't read this post any more.

Preparation:

"Turn 0" will be the turn we declare war and cross the border.

Our invasion army will consist of 38 units the turn we declare war. This includes 20 Medieval Infantry, 7 Numidian Mercenaries, 3 Horsemen, 5 Catapults, 3 Warriors and 1 Settler.

Army Group A will consist of 8 Med Infs., and 3 NMs along with both Warrior scouts and the elite Warrior for a total of 14 units.
Army Group B will consist of 12 Med Infs., 3 Horsemen, 3 NMs, 5 Catapults and all other forces added on to the invasion for a total of 23 units.

Since GCA has pop-rushed a Temple in Elucidium we will need a Settler to build a fort 2-2 of Cuido de Alcohol to allow us to move adjacent to Elucidium and kill all of the GCA units we can see now on the turn we invade. The Settler has been in place as of turn -4.

The Plan:

AGA will be used as a semi-decoy force (only semi because it remains powerful force by itself) for the first few turns. If the main GCA homeland army is somewhere up north and engages our front units, AGB can sweep in from behind and wreak havoc on AGA's attackers. However, they will have to be merged into one stack once we drive further into GCA territory (especially as we approach GCA cities) to prevent GCA from being able to hit us two turns in a row without us being able to retaliate (where they can first attack AGA then AGB again after they merge since we'll be in enemy territory).

After AGA and AGB merge we will drive south as fast as we can move, pending GCA cutting their roads as we advance.

The crux of this plan is in destroying GCA units, which is our main goal. AGA will be used as bait in getting GCA to try and confront our army, while AGB will come in from behind to destroy whatever GCA brings forward. We will have a much greater industrial base than GCA, which means they will not be able to replace their losses nearly as fast as we can. If we both take equal casualties they will run out of units much faster than we will, ignoring the fact that our units are in an era beyond theirs. Their cities will fall in time: our main concern is in killing their units.

AGC will be formed in the fort city, and sent south when deemed strong enough to be of assistance.

Possible GCA Responses:

GCA is rapidly retreating its units from the CFC theater, so it will likely not be long into the war before we have to confront the bulk of their army. GCA will most likely do one of three things:

- Confront us early with their army:
This is the best case scenario for us. GCA sees our relatively "weak" invading force, and may try to attack it early on in the war (pre-Algalord). We will be able to sweep in from behind with AGB and destroy the bulk of their homeland army. We would then have to defeat the other half of their army later.

- Confront us later with their army:
This is the most likely scenario. They ignore our army until the bulk of their forces from CFC reunite with the rest of their homeland defense. When they believe their army to be strong enough to defeat us, they mass all of their units and try to attack us. This is most likely to occur once we reach Algalord or afterwards. We should make sure to have AGA and AGB merged by the time this possibility arises.

- Turtle:
GCA leaves all of their units in their big cities trying to avoid a confrontation. This will take a long time to root out and would require a lot of GA resources to dig them out. However, based upon what we know about GCA's tactics this situation is somewhat unlikely.

Turn-by-Turn:

• Turn -5: Units upgrade where possible, and newly produced units make their way south towards the AGA/B staging point.
  
  
• Turn -4: Units continue to move towards the AGA/B staging point.
  
  
• Turn -3: Iron is reconnected. 7 Warriors and 1 Swordsmen will be upgraded to Medieval Infantry for a total cost of 440 gold.
  
  
• Turn -2: Newly upgraded units (8) move as far south as they can. This puts them in Karina. Other scattered units continue to head for the AGA/B staging point.
  
  
• Turn -1: All units in Army Group A and Army Group B will assemble on the tile 2 of Cuido. This should include all 37 units, except for the 2 blocking Warriors which will join AGA, 2 Catapults which will join AGB and the injured Horseman.
  
  Warrior BigFree will be stationed on the neutral road tile at Cuido 2-1, while WWNN will be at the tile 2-2 of Cuido. This is to prevent GCA from seeing AGs A or B the turn before we invade.
  
  
• Turn 0: At the start of the turn we will investigate Elucidium and possibly Zarigueya, for a cost of ~46 + 17 gold (at the moment, with Elucidium at size 4), seeing what GCA has assembled in the city.
  
  The Settler will move 2 and build a fort city which will assist in the invasion.
  
  Any Catapults available in AGB (should be all 5) will move 2 then bombard the two stacked GCA units on the iron. With a bombard of 4 each should have a 50% chance of hitting its target. Once bombardment is complete, MIs in AGB will kill all units except for the elite Sword 6 of Elucidium, where an AGA MI will do so.
  
  If any wounded GCA units remain, an NM from AGB will kill it to start our GA. AGB (everything we have outside of AGA) will move 2 into the fort city, where it will stay out of GCA's sight even if GCA moves units beyond AGA.
  
  The newly split-off AGA (8 MIs, 3 NMs, 3 Warriors) will move in its entirety to the tile 6 of Elucidium (where the elite GCA Sword stands now).
  
  
• Turn 1: AGA will attack and capture Elucidium (it should be above size 1 so we can capture it instead of auto-razing). The unused forces from AGA will move forward to 7-7 of Goatcity, and AGB will move into Elucidium. An NM will be detached and will move to the road 4-7 of Zarigueya (if possible) to try and ward off any forces which may head west from Zarigueya and might spot AGB or cause other kinds of trouble.
  
  
• Turn 2: On this turn we may be forced to merge AGA and AGB into one stack, because AGB will no longer be able to reach beyond AGA and hit any GCA units which might attack AGA. The bolstered Army Group will move 7 of Goatcity in preparation for a massive assault on the city (if they don't disband it). If they do disband it, we continue on towards Algalord (perhaps keeping AGB a secret if we can).
  
  
• Turn 3: At this point things get a little sketchy, since it's likely GCA will have pillaged roads or abandoned cities, but we can continue on as best we can.
  
  If Goatcity is abandoned, we may have to use an offensive Settler to set up a camp to advance on Algalord (since it has very nasty culture). We will definitely have to have AGA and AGB merged for the advance on Algalord. We move adjacent to the city, keeping our strength massed in one main stack to avoid being hit en masse by GCA units hiding in cities. Luckily our vet NMs will be very hard to penetrate, and if they did make another army with that Leader then we'll either see him a ways away or we'll be able to pound him hard the turn after if he attacks us first.
  
  
• Turn 4+: From this point on we have to mass our units and pound GCA cities as best as we can, funneling units down as fast as possible, and repairing any roads which may be pillaged as we make our way south. Once we capture Catchopolis the war will be effectively cleanup (except we will have to face off with the GCA army retreating from CFCs-ville) as our units pour through their land and destroy every unit in sight.

Image of the theater:



Graphical Representation of the Plan:

This is a (more) simple graphical representation of the basic plan for the first four turns of the invasion.

Turn 0



This should be the result of the first turn of our invasion. Ideally, all 4 GCA units we can attack on the first turn will be killed without costing us any casualties. With the 5 Catapults we have a good chance to do ~3 HP damage to the GCA Sword and Spear fortified on the iron, giving us a good shot at killing them both without losing any MIs.

Also, the GCA Horseman was attacked by a MI, where it then retreated and was finally killed by an NM to start our GA.

Army Group A is 6 of Elucidium/Rye, Army Group B is in the fort city.

Turn 1



In this shot for turn 1 we have captured Elucidium and the rest of AGA has moved forward in position to attack Goatcity/Outpost.

Our blocking NMs are now in place to keep Zarigueya/Dancing isolated while Army Group C is formed to capture it. Meanwhile AGA and AGB continue moving south. Army Group B is placed in Elucidium/Rye to remain out of GCA's sight for another turn.

This is the only turn in which AGA is really vulnerable at all. AGB cannot attack beyond AGA, leaving our army open to attack for a turn before we can mount a serious retaliation (if you consider the threat of 8 MIs not very serious, of course...).

Turn 2



Goatcity/Outpost is captured by AGA, where it stays in order to catch up with AGB for the assault on Algalord (most likely the point where GCA's main army will be stationed to try and stop our invasion). AGB is now 1 tile behind AGA as the blocking NMs remain in place (may be replaced later, but I'm not accounting for AGC or reinforcements).

Turn 3



In this final screenshot AGA and AGB merge outside of Algalord. The next turn they will capture the city and continue south as a merged entity.

As I said before, Army Group C has not been included in this simple run-through, though it should arrive sometime between turns 3 and 5 to capture Zarigueya/Dancing.

Note this sim also does not account for roads being cut, which could delay us quite a bit especially if we don't have any accompanying Workers (*cough*cough*).

Last edited by Trip on 07-10-2003 at 22:24

	14-08-2003 07:57									#2
	Other information about GCA we can use Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

CFC

This is a screenshot of the GCA army near CFC as of 510 BC (turn 103):



It shows 4 Swords (2 elites in the Army, another elite heavily damaged), 3 Horses (2 elite) and 1 Spearman. 8 units total, 7 thirty-shield units. Based upon their army being about the same strength as our own (with 15 Swords & Horses with a number of NMs) I estimate the GCA army at around 15 thirty-shield units total (I would guess higher, but they have a very large proportion of elite units, so that's likely to make their army "seem" more potent than their actual size), so they have approximately half of this estimation over near CFC.

Octavian has said these are the only units they've seen from GCA in a rather long time (so the rest are probably camping out at home).

CDG

I had a chat with Kentonio this afternoon to see what he could tell me what he knew about GCA.

CDG had 6 Immortals and 2 Spears just outside of Algalord when GCA hit them with approximately 6 units (2 regular Swords, 2 regular Horses and 2 regular Spears, according to rumor) and utterly decimated this force in two turns. They waited for CDG to approach and hit them from the city, which is likely what they'll try to do against us at some point (if they feel they can do damage to our stack).

In the final assault on Elucidium GCA attacked with 2 elite Swords and 3 veteran Horses, which killed 3 vet Spears and an Immortal in a single turn, so we can assume at least 4 of these 5 units are still alive somewhere.

Kentonio says that they are very "arrogant" and won't pillage roads/abandon cities as we advance because "they'll hope to kill us" using "any dirty trick they can."

According to MRex about 5 or 6 turns ago GCA got another leader off of CDG, which escaped and whose presence is unknown. It could have been used for another army, it could have built the Heroic Epic, or even the Forbidden Palace. We know it has not been used to build a wonder.

...

If all of these units that we've heard about are still alive, that would give GCA 5 elite Swordsmen (2 in an army), 1 vet Swordsman, 1 elite Horseman and 5 veteran Horsemen. This adds up to a total of 12 thirty-shield units which is fairly close to the 15 I predict they have. We should note that half of the confirmed forces are Horsemen, which suggests that they are rather Horseman-heavy (compared to what we will be), which is an advantage in that a vet Horse only has a 25% of defeating a vet NM.

	14-08-2003 08:50									#3
	Re: Other information about GCA we can use Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Trip CFC They waited for CDG to approach and hit them from the city, which is likely what they'll try to do against us at some point (if they feel they can do damage to our stack).

Just to point out - if GCA is indeed playing reload games, then this particular tactic falls very well into their modus operandi. Perhaps we should consider inflating the Mercenary count slightly in order to make it extremely difficult for GCA to pull their little stunt, if indeed they pull it?

We might also want someone keeping "odds" notes on how close to 'expected norm' the fights are...

	14-08-2003 08:59									#4
	Increase Your PM Length

If they're cheating then they're cheating and there's nothing we can do about it. They'll find a way to compensate for the extra NMs if that's really what they're up to. Or they could end up with exceptionally good luck. There's no way we can prove their cheating.

	14-08-2003 13:02									#5
	Increase Your PM Length

I would like to see a few more NM's thrown in the mix for both army groups. If we have to sacrafice a MI or 2 for it, so be it.

We are sending only 5 NM's in the assault? Maybe we need to build a few more......

	14-08-2003 13:09									#6
	Re: Other information about GCA we can use Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Trip This adds up to a total of 12 thirty-shield units which is fairly close to the 15 I predict they have.

If I had more time, I would run those number through the Army Analysis Procedure. Using this, and using the fact that their army is approximately 80% of ours, we can determine their approximate army size and composition quite well.

	14-08-2003 15:40									#7
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I agree with BigFree- we need at least 2-3 more NM, perhaps even a bit more. If They are that Horesmen heavy, our main advantage would be the NM- which could easily stop horesman offensive dead () on its tracks. Throw in some more NM, and I'll feel much safer...

	14-08-2003 19:27									#8
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

If CDG sent that much of a Immortal heavy force against GCA with only 2 spearmen, they deserve to get taken out of the game. Idiots!

I too want a few more NM's in the main assult force. As long as they don't get Feudalism, then we will be o.k.

E_T

	14-08-2003 20:00									#9
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

What makes you think that they'll even attack? If we have too many NMs they won't even attack us and all of those defenders will be essentially useless. If they wait in the cities and hope to drag us out into a long war by using heavily protected forts then the NMs will be useless and our offensive forces will be drained away.

If we can find a city where we can easily replace 1 Med Inf. with 2 NMs then that would be alright. But we're already probably going in with fewer forces than hoped for and the main impact of the assault will be from the Med Infs - the more we have the farther we can drive forward.

	14-08-2003 20:16									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

What would you think of moving AGA 1-1-2 on turn 1 to gain the defense bonus from the forest?

	14-08-2003 20:36									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Randolph What would you think of moving AGA 1-1-2 on turn 1 to gain the defense bonus from the forest?

It sacrifices mobility by moving off of the road, so it would take an extra turn to get AGA to the gates of Goatcity. If we remain on the road we can move all of AGA forward but the units that attack.

I don't think there's much of a threat from CDG early on anyways. It's unlikely they would station the entireity of their home army only a few tiles from Elucidium, and that would be the only threat to AGA on the first turn of the invasion.

If they lose a major battle early on (which would be the case if they tried to engage us so soon) then the war is already ours. So in some ways, I would invite them to try and take a shot at us early.

	14-08-2003 20:52									#12
	Tired of ads?

Makes sense, you'll be moving forward past Elucidium on turn 1 with what I would consider a sparse force, but you're right that it's unlikely that they will have much to counter with. Mobility probably will be more important that early.

It's a riskier plain then I would want to put on the table, but it certainly has a good chance of working brilliantly. It will all depend greatly on how surprised and unprepared we catch GCA. I'm just worried that they might not be as surprised and unprepared as we might hope.

	14-08-2003 20:55									#13
	Inflate your Upload Space

Another random thought; is there any possiblity that GCA has a navy that could redeploy units from the CFC front to our front (2-3 galleys)?

	14-08-2003 20:57									#14
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Randolph Makes sense, you'll be moving forward past Elucidium on turn 1 with what I would consider a sparse force, but you're right that it's unlikely that they will have much to counter with. Mobility probably will be more important that early. It's a riskier plain then I would want to put on the table, but it certainly has a good chance of working brilliantly. It will all depend greatly on how surprised and unprepared we catch GCA. I'm just worried that they might not be as surprised and unprepared as we might hope.

We will certainly investigate a few cities before we attack, so we should know what we're up against in Elucidium. I doubt they would have more than 2 Spears there, and even if they do they have a very slim chance of holding the city. A vet Med Inf. has a 70% chance of killing a vet fortified Spear and an 81% chance of killing a non-vet.

On the other hand, a vet Sword has a 44% chance of killing a vet NM and a vet Horse only has a 25% chance to do so.

Them's some good odds for us.

	14-08-2003 20:58									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Randolph Another random thought; is there any possiblity that GCA has a navy that could redeploy units from the CFC front to our front (2-3 galleys)?

They don't have Map Making.

So no, there's no possibility that they have a navy.

	14-08-2003 21:12									#16
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Well that puts the navy question to rest.

Are those odds taking into account the walls?

2 spears? Could they possibly believe that we are that benign? They must be worried about us; since they're doing well against CFC I'd guess they've started to put resources into their northern boarder. Well, we should certainly investigate the city, an excellent idea.

	14-08-2003 21:18									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Forgot the Walls again.

55% against a vet, 70% against a regular.

Silly CDG, why did they have to finish those Walls the turn before GCA attacked.

They don't believe us to be benign, but they do (probably) realize that if we launch a major attack their best chance of surviving it is using distance... Elucidium to Algalord is entirely crap for them and they can easily afford to lose that territory without any major repercussions (besides increased army support costs). If they're smart (which they are) then they should realize that trying to force a decision early against our massive stack will only end with us both losing a lot of units... for us ones we can easily replace, for them, not so much.

So what Elucidium holds isn't a matter of how they view us, only of how they best feel they can defeat us. A massive battle at the gates of Elucidium is not that.

	14-08-2003 21:24									#18
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

All this brings up a good topic: reverse prediction. What do we think they'll do if we enact our plan as expected? What's the best case scenario? Worst case scenario?

Luckily about half their army is being chewed on by CFC, or else that would make things more difficult. Having a 2.5:1 numbers advantage will be very important, and make it very hard for them to win.

Based upon what Kentonio has said, GCA should muster its army as best it can in one location, then try to hit us as best it can when they have an advantage (attacking from a city). I view this as likely, which means using AGA as a decoy force early on to draw them out can be useful if we don't allow them to perform repeated attacks from cities (which is why we need to merge AGA and AGB once we reach Goatcity... since they can use all attacking units TWICE if we keep AGA and AGB split up).

The most annoying thing they could do is simply hold back until Catchopolis and hope to maul our stack as best they can there, and have enough units left over so that we can't capture the city.

This means their greatest advantage is conserving their units.

Which in turn means our goal should be to draw them out to fight. If we can achieve that (and don't catch CDG's luck ) then we should be able to win. If they hunker down in cities on hills with walls behind rivers, we'll be in for a chore.

	14-08-2003 22:13									#19
	Support Apolyton

Although Catchopolis is certainly a fortress of a city, I doubt they'll decide (or should decide) to make they're stand there. You're probably right that they would be most likely able to hold out the longest by pulling back to their capital and taking shots where they can, but there is almost no way they can win the war this way.

If GCA looses everything north of Catchoplis they are finished, their three or four existing cities cannot hold up to us. If we are allowed to move throughout their land with little opposition we can ravage their land, deny them resources, perhaps even grab the cities behind Catchoplis. We would win a slow, but largely risk-less war. Even their returned armies from the CFC front would do little to save a three-city nation in the long run.

Their only chance at survival is to defeat our army quickly and set up a strong defensive front or sue for peace. Yes, the changes of this succeeding are very slim, but it is better then the certain defeat found by falling back to their capital.

If I were GCA I would engage offensively as soon as possible, probably north of goatcity, definitively before Aglalord. Elucidium might be sacrificed (definitely disbanded, it would be easier to re-build then to take a walled city w/ NM) if my odds were significantly better by pulling back a city. I would make a stand at Aglalord only if there seemed to be no chance of victory before that. Agalord cannot fall; I would role the dice before this.

Maybe they will be scared and shortsighted causing them to pull back to Catchoplis, but I wouldn't count on it. If they do this we should take it slow once we get to Catchoplis, taking advantage of our vast economic superiority and offensive position.

	14-08-2003 22:20									#20
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

If we march south with our big stack and they have a lot of units (15 or so, which they should be capable of) in the fortress of Catchopolis that would be bad bad news for our stack. Even with 25 units (~20 of which are offensive) the odds are bad for taking the city, and we'd have to wipe out every last unit they have there. Mind you, they'd probably be mauled just as we would, but we'd both have to build armies from scratch again, and they would be able to fill the void between Catchopolis and everything we captured. Meanwhile we waste more of our GA building units and the war starts over from square 1 again. I would rather deal a destructive blow on the flats and sweep through their undefended cities after that. That means them doing the opposite of that would be best for them, and worst for us.

Mustering 15 units in one city if they concentrate all they have should be within their reach. With a little luck (which they seem to be swimming in, at the moment) they could hold off against our first attack wave, then counter-attack with Swords. If our NMs are intact, then we should dish out more than we take, but all their units in front of our stack is bad however you look at it, unless they're out on the flats, which I would welcome.

As I said before, the key is luring them out into the open for a fight. I would hope this is something they would do, but if they prepare for a climax at Catchopolis don't be surprised if things get ugly...

	14-08-2003 22:35									#21
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

If GCA concentrates EVERYTHING in one city, why do we neccessarily have to take that one? If Catchopolis becomes "Turtleopolis" (I think this is actually rather likely) then why don't we sweep past it and smash another city?

Once we are within our GA-production, how long would it take to create AGC (Army Group C) and bring them into position?

If GCA plays it maximum smart and tries to fight us inside Catchopolis (again, I think this is VERY likely, and you win wars by assuming your opponent will do as much as possible right) then why don't we blow past Catchopolis, take OTHER towns, raze them to the ground... this would give GCA more incentive to face us in the field. By razing, rather than capturing, we ensure that GCA will not be able to retake them, and we effectively doom GCA in the long haul by removing piece after piece of their production base. GCA can certainly defend ONE city against us, but once we get to Catchopolis, if they still haven't attacked us - screw em, let's go burn some easier targets down and wait on AGC.

And hopefully, if the timing is right, as they move into the field to face us, AGC will sweep in from the north, giving GCA the devil's own decision, and giving us a hammer-and-anvil situation with Catchopolis square in the center.

Exactly how long would it take to create an AGC force to move down after the offensive begins? If we're researching at 10 percent, we ought to be pulling in a bit of cash.... how fast can we slam together a third army group?

Last edited by Fried-Psitalon on 14-08-2003 at 22:41

	14-08-2003 23:02									#22
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Fried-Psitalon,

Exactly what I was trying to say. Perhaps I could have been more clear.

Trip,

You're scenario is very realistic, but the massacre at Catchopolis is unnecessary. As FP stated, just don't engage them, keep their main force tied up in Catch and strike at points of opportunity. Maybe make a run at balance of power, deny resources, and pillage their land. Meanwhile we can amass a huge number of troops that can make the final assault on Catch.

My point is that a Turtle can hold us back, but it cannot defeat us, at some point they must engage us or become a city-state. What small chance they have for long-term survival rests on engaging us before we turn them into a three-city province.
A Turtle strategy would only be effective if we are actually stupid enough to assault a city on a hill across a river. Otherwise it's only tying up tons of units in a city of only moderate strategic importance.

By the way, I'm not saying that this means the plan needs to be reworked in any major way, I just wouldn't be so confident in an essential "march to their core". It's a good plain, but it may need to be tempered a bit.

Blitzkrieg worked wonderfully in Poland and France, but overly ambitious action in Russia created disaster after disaster.

	14-08-2003 23:05									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Fried-Psitalon If GCA concentrates EVERYTHING in one city, why do we neccessarily have to take that one? If Catchopolis becomes "Turtleopolis" (I think this is actually rather likely) then why don't we sweep past it and smash another city?

No, but they will have an advantage of mobility (especially with Horsemen), which means our Horses must be on pillage duty once we reach GCA proper.

quote: Once we are within our GA-production, how long would it take to create AGC (Army Group C) and bring them into position? If GCA plays it maximum smart and tries to fight us inside Catchopolis (again, I think this is VERY likely, and you win wars by assuming your opponent will do as much as possible right) then why don't we blow past Catchopolis, take OTHER towns, raze them to the ground... this would give GCA more incentive to face us in the field. By razing, rather than capturing, we ensure that GCA will not be able to retake them, and we effectively doom GCA in the long haul by removing piece after piece of their production base. GCA can certainly defend ONE city against us, but once we get to Catchopolis, if they still haven't attacked us - screw em, let's go burn some easier targets down and wait on AGC. And hopefully, if the timing is right, as they move into the field to face us, AGC will sweep in from the north, giving GCA the devil's own decision, and giving us a hammer-and-anvil situation with Catchopolis square in the center. Exactly how long would it take to create an AGC force to move down after the offensive begins? If we're researching at 10 percent, we ought to be pulling in a bit of cash.... how fast can we slam together a third army group?

Once we hit our GA stride we should be producing around 105 shields per turn in our main cities. That's over 3 NMs/Horses a turn or over 2 and a half Med Infs per turn. So in 5 turns that's about a 13 unit balanced army. 10 turns is 26 units.

If they do turtle then we do have some options, but it will be hard to determine exactly where they're concentrating.

	15-08-2003 02:15									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

This is where an investigation of GCA's cities will pay off for us. If they have a sizeable force in Old Elucidium, then we should march right on by and take the least defended cities closer to their Captitol.

Another Army Group will be easy to put together while we are in a GA.

	15-08-2003 02:15									#25
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Oh, and I insist on putting at least 2 more NM's in AGA.

	15-08-2003 02:47									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I agree with BF. We cant plan for everything to go well. And I wouldnt be suprised if they have quite a counter-attack.

	15-08-2003 03:23									#27
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

That's what I'm hoping for...

Again, getting the GCA units to expose themselves is our primary concern. The whole reason AGA and AGB are split up is so that AGA can be used as a decoy force. GCA won't try to attack it if it has more NMs than they have units.

	15-08-2003 03:37									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

It's really hard to make a full scale plan for how a hole war should progress turn by turn. I'm sure that someting unexpected will happen and we will need to change our plan.
But I think it's great that we have out initial moves ready for when the war begins.

BTW: From an objective standpoint it is clear that we definitely are in the best position now before the war. We have a much better industial land than GCA. And we are even entering our golden age shortly. The odds for winning this war is very much in our favor, and we will only be stopped if GCA cheats or if they are extremely lucky (again), which I don't think is likely.

We WILL win this war, I'm confident of it.

	15-08-2003 03:44									#29
	Got spare money?

Trip how long would it take to build a horseman and an MI?

	15-08-2003 03:51									#30
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I wouldn't count on the GA yet, in the early turns, if they pull back and turtle, our NMs might not have a chance to kill anything for a while.