27-08-2003 06:08									#61
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I do remember that :
when a city culture flip to me - i get the city with a defensive unit inside.
when i get a city as part of peace negotiation - there will be no defensive unit

but of course i am playing Civ III 1.29, not PTW.

	27-08-2003 06:52									#62
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Yep, them's the old rules.

I've been told that in MP that when a city flips all units inside the city are not lost (as was before) instead, they are instantly transported to the Capitol and the Civ getting the city does not get any free units in the flipped city.

	30-08-2003 10:40									#63
	Put an end to popups!

We should have a constant stream of reinforcements heading south so as long as they don't get any free units things ought to be fine. The only real risk for culture flipping is on the turn we first capture one of their cities.

	30-08-2003 15:20									#64
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I think we should ask GCA to tell us what happens during the battles that happen on their turn. Both team can agree to tell the other what units were attacked how they were killed etc rather than just getting the save back with less units each turn.

	30-08-2003 15:47									#65
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That a good sugestion, but I doubt GCA wants to give us or CFC any intel like that. I know I would not do so. The fog of war, even though unrealistic in this case, is a helpful tool.

	01-09-2003 05:25									#66
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Okay, I've done a bit of research and based upon what we know about the GCA military (from what we can see and what CFC has shown us) plus a guestimate that they have 5 vet and 4 regular Spears that we can't see, I've deducted that GCA can have between four and fourteen vet Swords (using Swords for test purposes) that are out of sight. Which is amazingly precise, I know. This means it will be very important to note our exact strength if/when we become strong vs. them. It'd be nice to know which end of the 4 or 14 they're closer to.

	02-09-2003 01:56									#67
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After this turn and the upgrades we've done + the units we've finished we can assume that GCA has at least seven "vet Swords" out of our sight.

	02-09-2003 09:20									#68
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Or a combination of elite Horsemen as well.....This is not an exact science. They could very well have a ton of Vet warriors as well, we will never know till we attack....

	15-09-2003 11:53									#69
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Bumping this thread ....... we are a few turns away from War, it's about time the Minister of War updates this thread and everybody else scan through every single detail.

	15-09-2003 20:30									#70
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I'm going to fully update it sometime today after classes once I have some time to do so.

	15-09-2003 21:59									#71
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Alright, I went ahead and updated it now since I had time. Everything in the first post should be current now.

	15-09-2003 22:24									#72
	War Turn Report: Turn -3 (118) Suffering from ads?

This turn we upgrade the rest of our units up north so they will be able to join with the rest of our main army at the proper time for the invasion.

A Catapult is finished in HoD, which will begin moving towards AGA/B.

WWNN will move 4 this coming turn, then 6, then 4 again, which places it adjacent to BigFree to block our invasion stack on turn -1. It will also be on a road so it will be able to join AGA on turn 0.

	16-09-2003 04:21									#73
	Put an end to popups!

When the war stars (I can hardly wait ) can the Minister of War post bulletins at each turn showing how well the plan is working? (what made changes in each plan)

	16-09-2003 04:36									#74
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That's what I was planning on doing (look at the post above yours).

	17-09-2003 06:13									#75
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This is a (more) simple graphical representation of the basic plan for the first four turns of the invasion.

It will also be placed in the first post of this thread to be more accessible.

Turn 0



This should be the result of the first turn of our invasion. Ideally, all 4 GCA units we can attack on the first turn will be killed without costing us any casualties. With the 5 Catapults we have a good chance to do ~3 HP damage to the GCA Sword and Spear fortified on the iron, giving us a good shot at killing them both without losing any MIs.

Also, the GCA Horseman was attacked by a MI, where it then retreated and was finally killed by an NM to start our GA.

Army Group A is 6 of Elucidium/Rye, Army Group B is in the fort city.

Turn 1



In this shot for turn 1 we have captured Elucidium and the rest of AGA has moved forward in position to attack Goatcity/Outpost.

Our blocking NMs are now in place to keep Zarigueya/Dancing isolated while Army Group C is formed to capture it. Meanwhile AGA and AGB continue moving south. Army Group B is placed in Elucidium/Rye to remain out of GCA's sight for another turn.

This is the only turn in which AGA is really vulnerable at all. AGB cannot attack beyond AGA, leaving our army open to attack for a turn before we can mount a serious retaliation (if you consider the threat of 8 MIs not very serious, of course...).

Turn 2



Goatcity/Outpost is captured by AGA, where it stays in order to catch up with AGB for the assault on Algalord (most likely the point where GCA's main army will be stationed to try and stop our invasion). AGB is now 1 tile behind AGA as the blocking NMs remain in place (may be replaced later, but I'm not accounting for AGC or reinforcements).

Turn 3



In this final screenshot AGA and AGB merge outside of Algalord. The next turn they will capture the city and continue south as a merged entity.

As I said before, Army Group C has not been included in this simple run-through, though it should arrive sometime between turns 3 and 5 to capture Zarigueya/Dancing.

Note this sim also does not account for roads being cut, which could delay us quite a bit especially if we don't have any accompanying Workers (*cough*cough*).

Last edited by Trip on 17-09-2003 at 06:18

	17-09-2003 20:37									#76
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Nice plan. Good thing to put it into pictures.

Tell me, how many units do you expect to see inside of Rye, Random, Dancing and Algalord?

	17-09-2003 20:44									#77
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That's really hard to say.

Like I said before, I expect them to have most of their homeland army (except for the units we can see) further back, probably in the vacinity of Algalord. This force amounts to ~7 Swordsmen (maybe 8 by now).

Unless there's a major confrontation before Algalord then this plan should remain fairly accurate, though we may lose 1 or 2 more units than displayed in the plan if they have more than 1 Spear in the cities when we attack. However, things only get seriously derailed if they pillage roads left and right or when we find their main army... and that's when the real fun begins.

	17-09-2003 21:10									#78
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How does GCA best defend against this plan? In other words, what is our worst-case scenario?

GCA is likely to have many of their units ready to meet us, since they've told us straight up they expect an attack.


Dominae

	18-09-2003 04:10									#79
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I am a little uncomfortable with only 8 MI in AGA when we attack Catcher. When I play MP I always want 10+ attacking units in a stack, to guard against bad RNG luck and/or my opppnent having a decent army there.

	18-09-2003 05:41									#80
	Put an end to popups!

Wasn't there a 2nd GCA leader running around? We might find a three sword army in catcher, that's where I would plant one. Might make it a lot tougher to crack. rather kill 3 individuals than try one big guy.

	21-09-2003 05:18									#81
	War Turn Report: Turn -2 (119) Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

8 newly upgraded MIs head south and will end up in Karina this turn. The next turn they will join AGA/B at Cuido 2.

Another Catapult finished in Karina, which will join AGA/B along with the recent Catapult from HoD.

WWNN will move 6 this coming turn then 4 again, which places it adjacent to BigFree to block our invasion stack on turn -1. It will also be on a road so it will be able to join AGA on turn 0.

	24-09-2003 04:29									#82
	War Turn Report: Turn -1 (120) Increase the size of your Attachments

The 8 recently upgraded MIs will join up with the rest of AGs A and B at Cuido 2 this turn..

Another Catapult finished in Possumopolis, which can get as far as Cuido this turn. It will be able to move 2 tiles S then bombard without problems the turn we invade (121).

WWNN will move 4 this turn, which places it adjacent to BigFree to block our invasion stack form GCA's view. It will also be on a road so it will be able to join AGA on turn 0.

At the end of this turn all units in AGs A and B should be at Cuido 2 except for 1 Horseman, 1 Catapult (possibly 2 on turn 121) and 2 Warriors.

	26-09-2003 11:48									#83
	War Turn Report: Turn 0 (121) Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

AGA and AGB spring into action this turn, killing 5 GCA units and advancing on Elucidium with the help of a fort city.

As this is a fairly complicated turn, more details can be found either in the turnthread orders or in the first post of this thread.

	01-10-2003 01:46									#84
	War Turn Report: Turn 1 (122) Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

GCA has razed Elucidium and pillaged a couple roads heading south from it.

They've killed one NM, and retreated most of their army back towards Random Outpost. With 1 scouting Warrior we can see 3 vet Horsemen, 3 vet Spearmen and a Settler in the immediate area.

AGA and AGB will both make their way south, AGG taking a slight detour to IDG as AGA takes Random Outpost. They will then merge and head south with reinforcements.

	01-10-2003 02:02									#85
	Re: War Turn Report: Turn 1 (122) Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Trip AGA and AGB will both make their way south, AGG taking a slight detour to IDG as AGA takes Random Outpost. They will then merge and head south with reinforcements.

Could you be more specific about this. When you say they both move south do you mean they will make one stack S,S of Nevermore as suggested in the other thread?

	01-10-2003 02:04									#86
	Re: Re: War Turn Report: Turn 1 (122) Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by OPD Could you be more specific about this. When you say they both move south do you mean they will make one stack S,S of Nevermore as suggested in the other thread?

Updated orders on the way...

As before, please continue discussion here and reserve the turnthread for other matters.

	01-10-2003 02:25									#87
	Re: Re: Re: War Turn Report: Turn 1 (122) Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Trip S02 Flash pillages the iron road. S01 Jagjef attacks GCA Sword in Dun na Anarchy.

Would it not make more sense to attack first then pillage?

It would keep our options open, say the sword wins with no HP loss and the only defender left is a horse? Would you then want to attack with the other sword?

	01-10-2003 02:29									#88
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I would respectfully suggest that perhaps attempting to pillage their iron and horses is wiser than throwing two swords at a town that could have any number of defenders.

	01-10-2003 02:32									#89
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quote: Originally posted by OPD Would it not make more sense to attack first then pillage? It would keep our options open, say the sword wins with no HP loss and the only defender left is a horse? Would you then want to attack with the other sword?

Having two attackers is exactly the reason I'd wait a turn to attack. We NEED to pillage that iron tile much more than we need to take the city. We can't let them have the opportunity to build any more swords (or pikes if GWT gifts them Feudalism) without making them build a new road first...one that we can pillage all over again. Pillaging is necessary right now. Taking the city is great, but it's not as necessary IMHO.

	01-10-2003 02:33									#90
	Re: Re: Re: Re: War Turn Report: Turn 1 (122) Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by OPD Would it not make more sense to attack first then pillage? It would keep our options open, say the sword wins with no HP loss and the only defender left is a horse? Would you then want to attack with the other sword?

Possibly.

If we attack with both Swords this turn and don't take the city but take damage then GCA could kill our Swords before we have a chance to pillage. Permanent damage done = 0.