25-08-2003 05:35									#91
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PLATO speaks the truth...

	25-08-2003 05:40									#92
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And the next person who posts a personal insult is toast...

	25-08-2003 05:41									#93
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just for the record... I was referring to PLATO's statements about poverty and education coinciding with crime rates...

	25-08-2003 05:51									#94
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quote: Originally posted by Ming And the next person who posts a personal insult is toast...

Ming, some principles are beyond the realm of moderation. Racism surely cannot go unchallenged. For the sake of peace, I will hold my tongue. Accept my apologies if I affended anyone.

	25-08-2003 05:54									#95
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Bod's get's restricted for his racist attitudes often... there is no need for you to sink to the same level

	25-08-2003 05:55									#96
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quote: Originally posted by Ming Bod's get's restricted for his racist attitudes often... there is no need for you to sink to the same level

You are, of course, correct. Won't let it happen again.

	25-08-2003 18:34									#97
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I am not racist - I am just exploring all possibilities here that others are afraid to do for fear of getting on the wrong side of Ming, or not being politically ubercorrect.

Basically I am asking..why can it not be skin colour that determines both risk of crime and expected income (rather than a more complex explanation)?

	25-08-2003 18:40									#98
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's I am not racist

Next you're going to claim you're not homophobic.

	25-08-2003 18:42									#99
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I'm not, the fear should be the other way round.

	25-08-2003 18:44									#100
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's I'm not, the fear should be the other way round.

Well duh -- I would not be afraid if you were not homophobic.

But you know, sometimes the truth is more fearful than the lie.

	25-08-2003 18:49									#101
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I'd just like to point out that yesterday it was anounced the U.S. was at a 30 year low for crime.



Even though thats the case, profile away-I'll be bitter till I die about being descriminated against in college because i'm a caucassian male.

	26-08-2003 05:54									#102
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's Can't we at least consider that maybe skin colour is the true indicator, and crime figures and socioeconomic status are both a result of that.

A staggering, brilliant idea!

Very black people then get, say, two police to follow them, on the grounds that being so black, they might be twice, or four times as likely to commit a crime.

Slightly less black people get one police officer or one full time, one part time, police officer.

Mixed race people (would they have to be Afro-Caribbean, or would Caucasian and Semitic or Caucasian and Dravidian do?) would get just one, unless they could prove themselves to be members of the local golf club and a Conservative supporting business person, in which case they might get just a Hendon trainee dropping in from time to time to have a cup of tea.

Pure whiter than white people (such as say, Jeffery Archer, Dennis Nilsen, and Myra Hindley) would of course not require any police escort, because they're so unlikely to commit crimes. Aren't they? Oh, unless they're slope browed murdering thugs of Irish descent like me, of course, in which case they'll need dubious forensic tests to be carried out on them, and then be locked up after the most monstrous miscarriage of justice and clear collusion between police and government to fake evidence and withhold evidence from their defence.

Who needs satire with you around, Boddington?

You supply it yourself.

	26-08-2003 06:01									#103
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i feel i must congratulate boddingtons for this very well done troll

	26-08-2003 20:53									#104
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What is your point, Molly Bloom?

Are you saying we shouldn't target resources where they have shown to be most needed?

	26-08-2003 21:06									#105
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Socioeconomics is one factor determining crime rates amongst communities, and generally, the poorer the community the more crime there will be commited. True that PLATO, and that is why there is racial profiling. In most communities there is racial indicators to specific economic status.

Profiling is a very useful tool in tracking down a suspect and should not be dismissed. It will always exist as long as their exists detectives with a braing between their ears.

Now, stopping AND harrassing someone who seems to be in the wrong neighborhood is the type of racial profiling that should be stopped. Yet, just stopping someone is not... A cop should stop an old white lady in S. Fresno... she is obviously lost.

If going by the numbers can't be used by the police then what tool do they have to prevent crime from occuring? Or, will they just have to wait until the crime is commited before they can come and tell you "sorry" we can't even speculate who might have done it?

[sarcasm]At least we have a strong justice system that is obviously doing a great job at detering criminals![/sarcasm]

	26-08-2003 21:08									#106
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's Are you saying we shouldn't target resources where they have shown to be most needed?

You seem to be saying that it's ok to judge people based soley on the color of their skin... Which sure sounds racist to me.

Just because you want to raise statistics that might support your point of view that one skin color may be more likely to commit a crime... that doesn't make it so for everybody of that skin color. All races commit crimes.

Innocent until proven guilty... no matter what their skin color.

	27-08-2003 20:27									#107
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If colour of skin can be taken as a proxy for income (which can be sometimes hard to assess on the street), Ming, as has been stated by most in this thread, and (lack of) income is an indicator of likelihood of committing crime, then skin colour can certainly be used as a basis for ascertain the possibility of criminal actions.

That's just one explanation of course.

The other is that it is skin colour (or something connected with that, ie race, in a more generalised concept) that provides the increased crime and lower income. So it is no surprise as a result that crime and income would also turn out correlated.

	27-08-2003 21:07									#108
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Bodd's... that's what is known as a "false cause" conclusion...

I recently saw a study that concluded classical music DID NOT contribute to making babies smarter. It was previously thought that playing classical music for young children would make them smarter... but it was discovered that parents that played classical music did other things to contribute to their children's education that led to the higher IQ ratings.

make sense?

	28-08-2003 09:34									#109
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You can prevent thse false conclusions,
if you match the Statistical Analysis to socioeconomic Status.

Compare Groups of the same socioeconomic Status and look if different Skin Colours mean different Crime Rates among the Groups of this Socioeconomic Status.

Just comparing Crime Rates of Blacks, Whites, Latinos etc. without grouping for socioeconomic Status would be a proof of very bad scientific methods, indeed.

	28-08-2003 09:36									#110
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you are assuming Bodd's is basing his conclusions on statistics, or some other factual information...

	28-08-2003 09:37									#111
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That would be the day.

	28-08-2003 09:38									#112
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... "whhheeeen you say goood byyyyeeeyyyaaayyy"

	28-08-2003 21:27									#113
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Show me the false statistics and I'll back down. Until now, we can say blacks commit more crime and poverty is no excuse.

So they should be targetted.

	28-08-2003 21:33									#114
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Naw, the reason Black people are more likely to commit crimes is not because poverity thrives in their communities, it is because they blind in with the night!... Now that's a racist statement.

What about the profile for every serial killer being a young WHITE male?

	28-08-2003 21:48									#115
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Everyone wants the cops to prevent crime as long as they aren't incovienced in the process.

"Catch that drug dealer on the corner but dont be harassing my baby, he ain't done nothing.."

	28-08-2003 21:55									#116
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's So they should be targetted.

Again... the majority of blacks don't commit crimes. So to target them for the crimes of others is just racist.

As stated... it probably has more to do with income levels... so if you really want to follow your figures with logic... you should be asking for the police to target poor people, no matter what race they are...

	28-08-2003 21:57									#117
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Generally I see more patrol cars in poor areas then in rich areas so it seems the cops already do target poor people. I have to agree with this as well. The cops should be where crimes are most likely to be commited so satistically they can stop the most crimes.

	28-08-2003 22:04									#118
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quote: Originally posted by Japher What about the profile for every serial killer being a young WHITE male?

When a suspect is of the Anglo-Saxon race, police are not inclined to harrass all white males, since those cops that are racist would never resort to such behavior.

Rather, when there is a white suspect, it seems they look out for much more details of the individual than is the case with a black suspect.

Or am I mistaken?

	29-08-2003 21:10									#119
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quote: you should be asking for the police to target poor people, no matter what race they are...

Walk down the street. Think you can accurately assess the income of someone?

(Of course you probably live in some rich suburb away from minorities anyway, like most social liberals, so can preach without encountering the reality)

	29-08-2003 21:16									#120
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I've seen more reality than you have It must be nice to preach about the real world when you are still in school and haven't really had to face it yet

But now you are really being racist. Your response indicates that since you can't tell people are poor, they can't be targeted, even though their level of crime seems higher... yet since you can tell people are black... you can target all of them because of the actions of the minority of them...