29-08-2003 21:22									#121
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I notice you didn't deny what I said. Yet I bet you still have "friends who are black blah blah"...

Because as has been stated many times without question, skin colour is a proxy for income.

	29-08-2003 21:25									#122
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I'm just wondering what sort of guy you'd (really not) want for your daughters...

	29-08-2003 21:27									#123
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I notice that the best you can do is throw around insults instead of debate.

Saying skin color is a proxy for income is just racist.
Yes... data show that blacks have less income...
But that doesn't mean that all blacks are poor, or that all are criminals. There is no reason to target all blacks just because they are black. You saying that people should is about as racist as you can get.

	29-08-2003 21:30									#124
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Target wasn't the best choice of word...it's just obvious that police resources are better diverted to problem areas. Rather than amongst places where crime is lower and people who don't tend to commit crime as much..

	29-08-2003 21:32									#125
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I have no problem with police concentrating their resources in high crime areas... But you are advocating racical profiling... going after people simply because of their skin color. That is racist.

	29-08-2003 21:33									#126
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No, it's targetting resources on the places and people that need them most. Ask any black neighbourhood five miles from your home and they'd say they want more policing. What's wrong with that.

	29-08-2003 21:33									#127
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quote: Saying skin color is a proxy for income is just racist. Yes... data show that blacks have less income...

How is racist, if racism is a frame of thought, if there is data/facts to support such claims?

quote: But that doesn't mean that all blacks are poor, or that all are criminals. There is no reason to target all blacks just because they are black. You saying that people should is about as racist as you can get.

No, not all blacks are poor criminals, and saying the contrary is an ignorant statement. Saying the ppl should assume that every crime is commited by a black person is also stupid. Also, just pulling someone over because they are black without justification other than them being black is wrong. Yet, that is rarely the case. The police, whose job it is to 'serve and protect', have more often than not had other reasons to suggest wrong doing or to have 'probable cause' apart from them being black.

There is nothing wrong in pulling someone over who appears to be in the "wrong neighborhood", yet if they are harrassed (and by that I mean more than some quick and simple questioning) then there is something wrong...

	29-08-2003 21:37									#128
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quote: Originally posted by Japher Yet, that is rarely the case. The police, whose job it is to 'serve and protect', have more often than not had other reasons to suggest wrong doing or to have 'probable cause' apart from them being black.

Tell that to the Black Bank VP in a nearby suburb who got harrased every time he took a walk during his lunch break... or all the other Blacks that get hasseled because they live in upper income suburbs...

Probable cause is one thing... Being pulled over for simply being black is just crap... and happens all the time.

	29-08-2003 21:50									#129
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Racial profiling is A OK. And a vital tool in stopping crime. Otherwise you'd end up with an APB that looks like this: "We're looking for a living creature that has some height, that may or may not have hair, that may or may not be blind, and has a tatoo on his right forearm."

And that's just retardedly gay.

	29-08-2003 21:55									#130
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The Color of Crime

Until the numbers change I hope racial profiling continues, and I will agree not to wear a Ski mask into a convienent store...

	29-08-2003 21:55									#131
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Venom, you aren't talking about racial profiling... you are talking about legitimate discripitions of possible criminals being followed up. The better the discription, the more likely the police will get the right people.

But "black male, age 21, dark jacket, jeans, 5 foot 10, short hair" shouldn't lead to every black person in 10 square miles being stopped. Even if they don't even come close to matching the discription.

	29-08-2003 22:11									#132
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I hold that harrassment is wrong, but profiling is not. If a cop sees a black man in a predominantly white neighborhod, and just doesn't fit in (wrong clothers, loitering, etc.) then there should be no reason why the cop can't ask him what he's doing... Cops aren't suppose to be anyones enemy...

	29-08-2003 22:18									#133
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quote: Originally posted by Japher I hold that harrassment is wrong, but profiling is not. If a cop sees a black man in a predominantly white neighborhod, and just doesn't fit in (wrong clothers, loitering, etc.) then there should be no reason why the cop can't ask him what he's doing... Cops aren't suppose to be anyones enemy...

But that's not what some police are doing.

The Bank VP I was talking about wears a suit, and takes a walk down the street from his bank at lunch... and gets harrased.

My Black friends (yes Bodds, I have black friends, gay friends, and other minority friends... do you) who live in affluent suburbs get pulled over all the time while simply driving home... and they drive nice cars and dress well.
Hell... they even have city stickers on their windshields...

Profiling is being used as an excuse to harass blacks... simply because they are black.

	29-08-2003 22:43									#134
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Well, I wouldn't blame profiling, or call it such... It's police harrassment and racist cops... don't cut off the nose despite the face is all I'm saying...

	29-08-2003 22:45									#135
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"Racial profiling" is the PC version of "police harrassment and racist cops."

	29-08-2003 22:49									#136
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quote: No, as per reason outlined in the first ten or so posts. Please return to Page 1.

That you're a fascist bigot?

	29-08-2003 22:50									#137
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo "Racial profiling" is the PC version of "police harrassment and racist cops."

Profiling is targeting a group of people simply because of skin color/race, and for no other reason. This is not right. I don't care if blacks are more likely to commit crimes... the simple fact is that the MAJORITY of blacks DON'T commit crimes, and like any group, shouldn't be punished or treated differently.

Targeting people who match a discription is not profiling, and is legitimate police work.

	29-08-2003 23:28									#138
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I see my post on the previous page did not produce any reply.


oh well

	29-08-2003 23:38									#139
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Actually, Bodds, if it's all right with you I'd like to back this argument up. What are you implying? Given the statements:

Group X[black people] has a higher rate of criminal activity.

Group X has a number of other distinct characteristics[higher poverty rate, etc.] but these characteristics should be ignored as not relevant[reason not clearly specified].

It seems that you can only be suggesting one thing:

Group X is intrinsically criminal because it is Group X.

I hope that isn't what you mean, but if it is, what makes you think that? Is the gene for melanin and hair texture, etc. linked to behavioral genes somehow? Or are you suggesting an environmental factor, like the way they are raised? Whichever it is, it seems to me that if such a thing *were* the case our time would be better spent solving the problems where they are instead of damming them off with continuous surveillance. If black people were predisposed towards criminal activity, spending all our resources hawking them would make about as much sense as assigning 24-7 bailing crews to keep a leaky dike from flooding rather than hiring a mason to plug it. So just what are you saying?

	30-08-2003 00:44									#140
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Well it's becoming increasingly obvious, Elok, that the amount of time different races spent on different continents has led to different character, physical and intelligence traits.

"Group X has a number of other distinct characteristics[higher poverty rate, etc.] but these characteristics should be ignored as not relevant[reason not clearly specified]."

Never said they were irrelevant. I said they were harder than skin colour to ascertain from fifty yards.

	30-08-2003 00:50									#141
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quote: Originally posted by Ming Venom, you aren't talking about racial profiling... you are talking about legitimate discripitions of possible criminals being followed up. The better the discription, the more likely the police will get the right people. But "black male, age 21, dark jacket, jeans, 5 foot 10, short hair" shouldn't lead to every black person in 10 square miles being stopped. Even if they don't even come close to matching the discription.

Every black person that comes close to that description it should. Because ,I don't know if you've noticed it, but that's not exactly a detailed description. That probably fits about 20 people I come across at any point in the day.

Unfortunately police descriptions rarely carry a whole "Brown eyes set 1.67 inches apart. Left ear slightly lower than the right. Exact skin coloration 3 shades darker than burnt umber."

	30-08-2003 00:54									#142
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If blacks are sick of being stopped too much, surely they should blame their brothers for committing too many crimes, rather than the police for doing their job.

	30-08-2003 01:00									#143
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quote: If blacks are sick of being stopped too much, surely they should blame their brothers for committing too many crimes, rather than the police for doing their job.

Hypothetical: Your a cop and you come to a scene of a crime where someone has JUST been stabbed to death you see two people in the general vacinity a white guy standing around not paying attention and a balck man running... what do you do?

	30-08-2003 01:09									#144
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First I'd check on the person who'd been stabbed.

	30-08-2003 01:11									#145
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quote: JUST been stabbed to death

	30-08-2003 01:19									#146
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You don't determine death from a stab wound. You'd have to check the person's pulse and breathing first, and by that point any criminal would have escaped.

But I'm not a police officer so I don't know what the true protocol is.

	30-08-2003 01:28									#147
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nevermind

	30-08-2003 02:49									#148
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's If blacks are sick of being stopped too much, surely they should blame their brothers for committing too many crimes, rather than the police for doing their job.

Talk about being a racist...

When the police harass somebody for just being black, they aren't doing their job... Maybe the good police should blame the racist cops for the bad rap all police are getting because of their actions...

	30-08-2003 02:52									#149
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And playing the blame game is needless talk about the real problem, anyway.

	30-08-2003 02:53									#150
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quote: Maybe the good police should blame the racist cops for the bad rap all police are getting because of their actions...

yup that is exactly what needs to be done.