28-08-2003 06:15									#31
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Mrmitchell: I used to have that philosophy that all this stuff was a bunch of **** and that I should just toughen up. Consulted with a few friends, and they said drugs were the easy way out...So I didn't take them.
I tried my best to lead a happy life. I did some chairty work, etc etc. Spent more time with family. But none of it helped. I tried facing my depression but..it always came back. But it was nothing.
That is, until I began seeing dead bodies in my house and people materialize out of thin air.

Needless to say, I'm much better now. Most people who say "tough it up" have no idea what its like (or a VERY mild one). Why should i let my life crash before my eyes when I can escape the building? I'd much rather lose some pride than lose my sanity.

	28-08-2003 06:22									#32
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quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell But there really is little knowledge of what these drugs do 30 or 40 years down your line

Some information is beginning to come to light. Most anti-deprssants work by preventing the proper function of seratonin re-uptake receptors. They are called re-uptake inhibitors. This initially causes a higher level of seratonin in the brain. Seratonin is essential in preventing depression. The problem that is emerging now is that the brain adjusts to the elevated levels of seratonin and begins to produce less and therefore higher doses or changes in the anti-depressant is required. Additionally, there is emerging evidence that the re-uptake receptors may "shut off" and not function properly once the drug is removed. This could result in long term changes in brain chemistry.

For most people, depression is a temporary thing. Brain chemical production changes for a large variety of reasons. For most, it will readjust itself in a period of from a few weeks to a few years (depending on the cause and severity). The introduction of anti-depressants and their effect on long term brain chemistry are now being thought by some to be creating life-long chemical dependent people.

The bottom line is...If you can avoid taking antidepressants, the don't take them.

Good Luck.

	28-08-2003 06:22									#33
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I think if the source of depression is really from a bad synapsis (sp?) in your brain then you canīt fix it by "facing your fears", "tough it up" "whatever" IMHO, same as you canīt fight a bad infection without antibiotics (well you can try but...).

Edit: But I agree with this too,

quote: ...If you can avoid taking antidepressants, the don't take them.

If the problem isnīt severe, wich is something that a profesional should judge, not a bunch of people in a web forum , then you donīt need them... as somebody else said meditate or something, spend more time with your family, friends, etc.

	28-08-2003 06:23									#34
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Comrade, it sounds like you're one of the few tough cases (a fluke in the land of taking any drug for any reason). However, they're might be different things entirely.

Depression is not really "druggable" in my opinion. The correct fix is to make yourself happy without drugs.

Seeing dead bodies? Get yourself to the friggin doctor this instant damnit!

	28-08-2003 06:30									#35
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The people out there who oppose people using medication to help their depressions (or other disorders) simply don't understand, and probably can't understand unless they're in the shoes themselves.

Just because they can "pull themselves out of a depression" doesn't mean everyone else can. The reason these people tend to be in a depression is because sh*t is going bad in their lives. Other people have chemical imbalances that lead to severe depression even if everything is honky-dory.

So would the people like mrmitchell kindly can it and stop being insensitive dolts, it'd be much appreciated.

	28-08-2003 06:34									#36
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Okay, I'll admit, I've never had a serious depression problem. But I still think the majority of the prescriptions are for temporary things but turn into permanent prescriptions. REAL chemical imbalances need it, yes. But I'm under the impression that "real" is a much smaller crowd than thought.

(Seeing dead bodies is one example of "real" depression.)

	28-08-2003 06:34									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Asher The people out there who oppose people using medication to help their depressions (or other disorders) simply don't understand, and probably can't understand unless they're in the shoes themselves. Just because they can "pull themselves out of a depression" doesn't mean everyone else can. The reason these people tend to be in a depression is because sh*t is going bad in their lives. Other people have chemical imbalances that lead to severe depression even if everything is honky-dory. So would the people like mrmitchell kindly can it and stop being insensitive dolts, it'd be much appreciated.

Amen to that. Depression was the closest to insanity I can imagine anyone getting, and I was a pretty mild case.

	28-08-2003 06:35									#38
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Personally, my life has been made immeasurably better since I started Celexa.

1) I am no longer socially avoidant and excessively shy
2) I have a SO of over 3 months and counting, going great
3) I got a job in my field that pays great, mostly due to my ability to actually have a job interview coherently now
4) I enjoy playing video games, listening to music, watching movies, just hanging out with friends again
5) I'm not afraid to try new things at all anymore, just got a new Acoustic Guitar last night that I'm teaching myself
6) Academically my marks have improved, my concentration is better, and I have goals and work ethic

So it's somewhat disheartening for me to see a bunch of people who don't know what the hell they're talking about discouraging other people from seeing experts that may decide to put them on something too.

Where are your morals, I ask you? It's their life, not yours.

	28-08-2003 06:41									#39
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Asher, in many cases medication is indicated. In many it is not. The problem is that the medical community is predisposed toward medication. In your case the medication may be the best solution. It is not insensitive to suggest that in other cases medication may not be the best answer. Given the emerging data on the long term effects, one would be wise to consult all options before deciding on a treatment option. Simply going to see a professional and letting them decide is an abdictation of you responsibility to yourself.

	28-08-2003 06:44									#40
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A professional tends to know more about the issue than you do, and more about the options.

My doctor wasn't predisposed to medication, he actually suggested therapy first -- biggest waste of money, ever. $135/hr to listen to some guy ask "How do you feel about that?" "Why do you think you are sad?" "Does anything in particular make you sad?" GRRR.

Self-help works for some, therapy works for some, medication works for some.

People usually try to get themselves out first before asking for help (tried that for like 5 years ), then go seek help which is either therapy or medication, or both.

It's up to the person and for the doctors to decide which is probably best for you, not some people on Apolyton talking of "morals".

	28-08-2003 06:46									#41
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Plato explained my idea better than I would have.

	28-08-2003 06:48									#42
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Aha. Crosspost.

My point is, Asher, is that medication is viewed as a "cures every ail on every person" type thing, and a lot of the time it isn't.

	28-08-2003 06:49									#43
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quote: It's up to the person and for the doctors to decide which is probably best for you, not some people on Apolyton talking of "morals".

What I tried to say but a lot better .

	28-08-2003 06:54									#44
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$135 an HOUR?!

When I told my therpaist of my money problems, she did something that surprised me greatly. She simply said "Okay, I'll do it for free". And I haven't paid a dime ever since.

	28-08-2003 20:27									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's Pull yourselves out of it.

This may sound harsh but it is the truth. Take it from someone who tried every anti-depressant + therapy in the 90's. THe answers to your depression are, always have been, always will be, in your own head. The sooner you achieve mental discipline and are willing to train yourself to have a positive outlook on life the better you will be. I can only speak for myself, but psych drugs were only a crutch that gave me an excuse to stay depressed. They elevated my mood somewhat but I was still stuck in my neurotic behavior patterns. And psych drugs filter your sensations so you are not fully experiencing life sensually while you use them.

Follow this advice to get out of your depression without drugs:
1) Accept full responsibility for yourself and your actions;
2) Make no excuses or apologies to anyone for your actions;
3) Assert your rights as an individual as necessary;
4) Exercise regularly and eat right;
5) Build and maintain social relationships;
6) Think positive thoughts at all costs - even when it seems foolish to do so. This doesnt mean you have to be a glassy-eyed optimist, but very simply there are two ways to view anything: positive & negative. Always find the positive in everything and everyone.

	28-08-2003 20:32									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Feephi This may sound harsh but it is the truth. Take it from someone who tried every anti-depressant + therapy in the 90's. THe answers to your depression are, always have been, always will be, in your own head.

The answers to your depression was in your own head -- what the hell makes you think you can extrapolate that to everyone else?

Just because you had psychologically-induced depression doesn't mean everyone else does.

Obviously you're psychologically not all that apt to begin with, if you're truly incapable of thinking people have fundamentally different problems that can all result in some kind of depression, and various treatments work for different causes of it.

If somebody's having a seizure, do you just look at them and say "Stop that...if I had a seizure, I'd just stop doing it!"

	28-08-2003 20:50									#47
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i used to be on wellbutrin, back when i was with a shrink i liked.

now this new one, whom i hate, has put me on lexapro. i've never had side effects with any drug i've taken, but this one makes me dizzy something fierce when i wake up in the morning.

	28-08-2003 20:57									#48
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as for depression. mine's chemical. and a relapse.

i tried toughing it out again (the previous episode, i did, and everything worked out)... but this time i couldn't. two quarters of school, down the fcuking drain, unable to work, unable really leave the dorm, losing all sense of time, unable to do basic hygenic duties like laundry or dishes... unable to function much at all... almost five months, unable and unwilling to ask anyone, even friends, for assistance.

wasn't situational. everything was going fine. it was chemical.

toughing it out doesn't always work. so unless you've gone through it, no offence, but shut your pie hole.

	28-08-2003 21:00									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Asher The answers to your depression was in your own head -- what the hell makes you think you can extrapolate that to everyone else?

Would it be so terrible for you or anyone else to find out that there is another path out of depression besides your method of having a therapist lead you around by the nose while you emptied your pockets to him and the pharmacist?

What makes you think that your point of view is any more valid than mine? Are you an expert on depression? I qualified my experience with psych drugs by saying in my post, "this was my own experience".

I believe if a depressed person considers my point of view, this will save them a lot of money with drugs and therapy, and they will enjoy life more than if they take your advice. Do you always get this angry when people disagree with you?

A therapist will be only too happy to prescribe you the latest depression drug just to see how it works on you. Most of the time they cant be sure what long-term effects the drug will have on you because they will prescribe it for you as soon as it is released to the public. I've had many therapists tell me in the past, "Well we're not sure exactly what this drug does, but we find that it helps sometimes when we combine it with this other drug. So take both of them. " Many of these psych drugs also have side-effects, you must consider. So why be their guinea-pig when you can realize that you have the power within yourself to turn your life around without emptying your pockets to these "experts".

quote: Obviously you're psychologically not all that apt to begin with, if you're truly incapable of thinking people have fundamentally different problems that can all result in some kind of depression, and various treatments work for different causes of it.

There's really no need to make personal attacks, here Asher. I never suggested your way does not work. But realize that my way works too. The fact of the matter is, whether you come out of the depression with drugs+therapy or without, you'll still have to master the 6 points I listed at the bottom of my last post to keep the depression away. IMHO, of course..

	28-08-2003 21:10									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Feephi Would it be so terrible for you or anyone else to find out that there is another path out of depression besides your method of having a therapist lead you around by the nose while you emptied your pockets to him and the pharmacist?

Listen: I've suffered from depression and social anxiety disorder since at least around age 10. I've tried everything you listed, for years, and it never worked for me.

When I realized how much of my life I was wasting by being a hermit and constantly anxious, I went to my doctor and asked for help.

Tried therapy, which was a joke and didn't help.

Tried medication, and it did work, and it worked very well.

quote: What makes you think that your point of view is any more valid than mine?

Because yours is so blatantly wrong that anyone with a clue about how depression works would dismiss it outright. Some people can pull themselves out like how you described, others can't.

Frankly, it's downright insulting for people like you to tell people who are on medication that they should just "pull themselves out of it". It's ignorant, it's insensitive, and it's simply stupid.

You obviously don't understand what it's like to live in a depressive and anxious hellhole for many years, while attempting to pull yourself out with no success...

quote: Do you always get this angry when people disagree with you?

I'm angry because you disagree with me without understanding anything about what you're talking about. Stupidity angers me like nothing else, and that's all you've shown. Further, you act like a **** with an (intentional or not) veiled insult implying people who are on medication aren't smart enough to know to try to pull themselves out of their depressive hole before seeking help.

Get off your high horse, accept that what works for you won't work for everyone else.

	28-08-2003 21:10									#51
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asher might be happier, but the drugs haven't done anything for his complete twatishness :/

	28-08-2003 21:12									#52
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The answer to depression to taking people's advice, and doing something with your life. Usually depression is caused by not having enough to do. I've been there.

Get a friggin hobby (something that involves others), even if it something you are crap at now. You'll get better and it'll be much more rewarding that working seven hours a day then going on Poly or playing Civ for seven hours, then sleeping.

	28-08-2003 21:14									#53
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I'm not the one trolling a thread about someone seeking help with bullshit about how everyone can pull themselves out of a depression. That is twatish.

I'm angry because if I listened to people like that, I'd still be miserable and lonely.

	28-08-2003 21:14									#54
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Asher's right.

Doctors here do have a tendency to go straight to pills rather than considering the other options though and different things work for different people as Asher said. Being depressed is one of the worst things ever, anything that works for you is better.

	28-08-2003 21:18									#55
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quote: toughing it out doesn't always work. so unless you've gone through it, no offence, but shut your pie hole.

I don't think anyone disagrees with you. But the problem is that these are prescribed like candy even though all other alternatives haven't been exhausted.

Prozac is now one of the most prescribed drugs. That tells me that it's not a chemical thing, but a society thing. Is it now up to the medical community to come up with more powerful drugs to counteract the ever-increasing pressures of society? Or do people need to be willing to make life-choices, like time for meditation, exercise, and proper diet, as investments in themselves as opposed to money, school, or career?

I think the fact that SSRI's are so prevalent is a disturbing trend about how people aren't being treated like people. Instead, they're shuffled into a doctor's office, given a quick once-over, and shuffled back out with prescription in hand. At the same time, these are very powerful drugs whose range of effects on different people aren't fully understood.

	28-08-2003 21:19									#56
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I've been given anti-depressants before, but I didn't want to take them.

It demeans you.

	28-08-2003 21:20									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's The answer to depression to taking people's advice, and doing something with your life. Usually depression is caused by not having enough to do. I've been there. Get a friggin hobby (something that involves others), even if it something you are crap at now. You'll get better and it'll be much more rewarding that working seven hours a day then going on Poly or playing Civ for seven hours, then sleeping.

That's bullshit. There are loads of causes many of them medical.

	28-08-2003 21:21									#58
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If you're going to troll about how doctors are prescribing ritalin and SSRIs indescriminately, start another thread where you can blast that.

It's one thing to argue that, it's another thing to troll a thread about someone seeking treatment with comments like "everyone can pull themselves out of it"...

	28-08-2003 21:23									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's I've been given anti-depressants before, but I didn't want to take them. It demeans you.

It takes a man to know when to ask for help.

What's demeaning is having so many mental disorders as you so obviously have, and not doing anything about it.

	28-08-2003 21:23									#60
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Go have another beer Bodds

The problem is that Bodds hobby is taking anti-depressants in the form of beer, like me... So, we just don't see the need for mind altering drugs... apart for recreational use of course