28-08-2003 21:24									#61
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Boddington's I've been given anti-depressants before, but I didn't want to take them. It demeans you.

Luckily that kind of stigma about depression is getting less as people become more educated about it so hopefully people won't put off getting treatment for a genuine illness because they think like that.

Do you think getting anti-biotics demeans you?

	28-08-2003 21:28									#62
	Support Apolyton

quote: I think the fact that SSRI's are so prevalent is a disturbing trend about how people aren't being treated like people. Instead, they're shuffled into a doctor's office, given a quick once-over, and shuffled back out with prescription in hand. At the same time, these are very powerful drugs whose range of effects on different people aren't fully understood.

i'm not arguing against that. i'm arguing against those who think that the only answer lies with strength of will.

i hate my insurance, but it's all i've got. this means that i get funnelled to an abysmally piss-poor shrink cooperative, with a shrink i detest and am now on new medication the lexapro mentioned in the first post, that makes me dizzy when i first wake up in the morning.

lexapro == dizzy in morning.
to answer the first post.

	28-08-2003 21:30									#63
	Remove this text

Anti-biotics! If your blood/alcohol drops so low that virus' can actually live in your body then that is demeaning and I don't see how you could continue to live with yourself...

Honestly, we are just begining to understand the mind, and we have noticed that many psychosis are caused by chemical imbalances in the mind. These imbalances make it difficult or impossible for us to actually deal with certain problems, hence the use of drugs. If you have ever dealt with someone who is bipolar you would understand more... Maybe depression is some sort of this, and I for one know that I would be short one sister, a grandma, and a cousin if it were not for Prozac.

	28-08-2003 21:35									#64
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Let's all have heroin on the NHS!

	28-08-2003 21:36									#65
	Put an end to popups!

Finally a policy of yours I agree with.

	28-08-2003 21:52									#66
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Asher Listen: I've suffered from depression and social anxiety disorder since at least around age 10. I've tried everything you listed, for years, and it never worked for me.

Okay, that makes me wonder about the quality of your life right now, but at least you're not depressed, which is good.

quote: Tried therapy, which was a joke and didn't help.

At least we can agree that therapy is a joke.

quote: Tried medication, and it did work, and it worked very well.

I'm happy that you are cured. Medication does work for some, but for others it is not the best choice. Now let's try to have a calm discussion about our difference of opinion...

quote: Because yours is so blatantly wrong that anyone with a clue about how depression works would dismiss it outright. Some people can pull themselves out like how you described, others can't. Frankly, it's downright insulting for people like you to tell people who are on medication that they should just "pull themselves out of it". It's ignorant, it's insensitive, and it's simply stupid.

Please calm down, I can't talk to you when you're like this. Take a moment and go to the cupboard and find the little pill that calms you down and swallow one or two. Don't take too many or else you have to take the pill that brings you back up again...

As I said before, the "pull yourself out of it" phrase does sound harsh, but that really is the main idea. My advice on this subject is directed towards those who have been trying medication and/or therapy and not getting the results that they had hoped for - not for those like you, who are already cured.

quote: You obviously don't understand what it's like to live in a depressive and anxious hellhole for many years, while attempting to pull yourself out with no success...

And exactly how is that obvious? Go back and read my posts when your medication starts to kick in. I was depressed since my teenage years. It wasn't until my early 20's that I realized it was a problem though, and so I went through the whole therapy and medication thing during my mid 20's to early 30's. From my experience, that approach did not work. I'm taking this opportunity to share my story with others so they can consider the way that I escaped depression and maybe it will help them if what they are trying now doesn't work. If my way helps somebody get free of depression, would you object to that?

quote: I'm angry because you disagree with me without understanding anything about what you're talking about. Stupidity angers me like nothing else, and that's all you've shown. Further, you act like a **** with an (intentional or not) veiled insult implying people who are on medication aren't smart enough to know to try to pull themselves out of their depressive hole before seeking help.

So at age 20 you have all the answers, then? You believe that the whole world agrees with you and any who don't are stupid?
I have no idea what veiled insult you are talking about. You are creating this in your own mind.

	28-08-2003 21:58									#67
	Got spare money?

Okay, this is technically my thread, so I'm going to try to exercise a bit of authority here.

First of all, calm down Asher. There's absolutely no reason at all for you to be this angry. Understand that people have different opinions, especially in a community of over thirty eight thousand people.

That said, all those here who have said or implied that the only way out of depression - or the way that proves you're not weak-willed - is to tough it out, be quiet. No one here knows enough about this subject to truly speak definitively on it. Maybe if we got Strangelove in here he'd know something, but otherwise we're left with our own personal experiences and nothing more.

Next, I'm going to offer my side. I've been more or less depressed for five years (since eighth) grade. I've tried very hard to pull myself out of the depression manually, but have been totally unable to. In fact, every time I tried, I only got worse. My grades continued to fall, I lost my bestfriend, I totally withdrew from society and I lost interest in all but my writing. Now, I cannot even write.

I realized that I needed another way to fight this depression. I have a long family history of depression, suggesting that it isn't just bad times I've run into, but a disorder in me.

However, I have a strong dislike of pills. I really don't like things messing with my system, especially my mind.

So I've taken to meditation and focusing my mind. But I see no reason why I shouldn't use every resource at my disposal. If these sample pills I take (that means they're free!) can help pull me out of my depression, then maybe I'll be able to rely just on my own abilities in the future. But right now, I need all the help that I can get. I'm about to start college. I can't **** around any longer.

Now having given my view on this, everyone here remember that we all have different experiences, different conditions, different lives. Not all of our views are compatible. I don't mind my thread being threadjacked, I don't mind discussion, but I do mind people throwing insults and yelling and screaming.

Last edited by Lorizael on 28-08-2003 at 22:05

	28-08-2003 22:03									#68
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

lori, i agree with you entirely.

and i'll say it again. lexapro makes me dizzy in the morning. be careful with it.

i'm looking to have my prescription changed back to wellbutrin. this lexapro stuff works, but so was wellbutrin (maybe not as well), and it was doing it without making me dizzy.

	28-08-2003 22:07									#69
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Feephi Take a moment and go to the cupboard and find the little pill that calms you down and swallow one or two. Don't take too many or else you have to take the pill that brings you back up again...

See, at least I'm forthright with my opinions. You thinly veil them like that, which is sad...

So what's this one supposed to mean? That I'm a person who takes pills for anything and everything? I don't even take Tylenol, I find it doesn't do anything.

quote: And exactly how is that obvious? Go back and read my posts when your medication starts to kick in. I was depressed since my teenage years. It wasn't until my early 20's that I realized it was a problem though

If you don't realize until your early 20s that you were depressed, it must've have been very bad at all. You're out of your league here.

quote: So at age 20 you have all the answers, then?

No, not all -- I just know for a fact that people respond differently to different treatments. People who say otherwise are stupid, there's just no way around it.

Boddington's is on your side man, there's no hope for it.

quote: I have no idea what veiled insult you are talking about. You are creating this in your own mind.

When somebody tells someone else that they can do something without the aid of the medication they're on, particularly when they've already explained how they tried to get themselves out of it, it is insulting.

I'm sorry if you're too dense to comprehend that.

	28-08-2003 22:36									#70
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Lorizael That said, all those here who have said or implied that the only way out of depression - or the way that proves you're not weak-willed - is to tough it out, be quiet. No one here knows enough about this subject to truly speak definitively on it. Maybe if we got Strangelove in here he'd know something, but otherwise we're left with our own personal experiences and nothing more.

I've had a considerable amount of experience with this subject. I was diagnosed with major depressive disorder + anxiety. My whole point with my posts here is that you don't necessarily need to treat depression as some sort of mystic puzzle that can only be solved by someone with a PhD and an MD. I found my way out of the labyrinth by realizing that all the answers were already within me and all I had to do was make myself tough mentally to confront my problems and disect my neurotic behavior patterns. For me, psych drugs were like a cloud over clear thought and I couldn't get better until I stopped taking them. Despite what Asher thinks, I'm trying to help people with these posts. I don't normally post this much in any thread, but this particular subject I feel strongly about. When you are depressed and you feel like you've tried everything and nothing works it really sucks. I hit rock bottom and then this was the path I found out of it. If I could help just one person out of depression with anything that I've said then all of this typing was worthwhile.

	28-08-2003 22:56									#71
	Increase Your PM Length

I already do what you do, Feephi. I have incredible mental focus that allows me to solve pretty much any problem I encounter. But my depression I have not been able to overcome. So I'm going to do something that will give my own abilities a little boost.

	28-08-2003 23:18									#72
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

what is sweet lady liquor?

	29-08-2003 01:11									#73
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by elijah Its not as easy as that. Its a chemical issue, the brain re-absorbs seratonin (a happy hormone) too effectively, and thats why we take selective serotonin re-uptake inhibitors. The cause can be either psychological or medical. Either way, it can't be helped. I was on this generic fluoxitine hydrochloride (basically prozac) and it ****s with your head! I flushed it a couple months ago, the next month was tough but I'm good now. I do think depression gives you an interesting outlook on life though, a new non-pragmatic, idealistic, philosophical perspective that is quite common in depressives or post-depressives in my experience. Every cloud...

Prozac has done wonders for me. It hasn't radically changed my outlook or life in some ways but it takes a lot to get to me, and my anger is more controlled and the frustration doesn't kick as hard. I am still aware of the problems in my life but they don't cripple me like in the past.

	29-08-2003 01:14									#74
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Absinthe makes the heart grown fonder. Gin takes it and breaks it.

I tried to commit suicide twice before realising that I was always going to be a failure at it, and that I'd better start looking for another way out.

Watch "Fight Club" - it's as good a starting point as any.

	29-08-2003 01:17									#75
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I'm with Asher on this one, some of you really don't seem to have a clue what depression is like and that it isn't just something you can snap out of if you want to. I have been to counselling myself, which although useful in some ways it is just sometimes impossible to change how you feel by questioning your thoughts...and that is when I thought antidepressants would be a better choice for me. They have worked for me. If you don't like the idea of them, then that's your decision, but perhaps an avenue you are closing off to yourself without ever really knowing...

	29-08-2003 02:07									#76
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed lori, i agree with you entirely. and i'll say it again. lexapro makes me dizzy in the morning. be careful with it. i'm looking to have my prescription changed back to wellbutrin. this lexapro stuff works, but so was wellbutrin (maybe not as well), and it was doing it without making me dizzy.

STAY AWAY FROM WELLBUTRIN AT ALL COSTS. I don't know about Lexapro, but that damned Wellbutrin gave me a seizure. It was only one seizure, but I've been off Welly for two or three years, I'm on continuous Depakote 125 mg/day, and my hands still shake all the time. Apparently I was one of those acceptable two percent side-effect cases, but I don't think you want to risk it.

	29-08-2003 02:17									#77
	Got spare money?

I was really depressed once, and I wanted to do myself in. But my analyst is a strict Fraudian, and they charge you for the sessions you miss.

	29-08-2003 02:19									#78
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Is that Freudian or Fraudian?

	29-08-2003 03:13									#79
	Support Apolyton

I'm back! I see that many a temper has flared over the issue.

There are cases where depression and anxiety drugs are the correct prescription. However, it is my belief that there are a lot more cases where depression is situational instead of chemical, and anxiety is just a complicated medical buzzword for being a dork. In these cases, it is incorrect to give out the medicines because they don't need them and they either don't help or they cause the problem to worsen. Depending upon the doctor you have, you might get an accurate assessment. But docs are all too happy to hand out medicines--it pays the bills, and for some patients it gives them a reassurance that they're getting help (some people really are like this.) To me, when a doctor gives me a buttload of pills after a 3 minute check, it makes me nervous because I get the idea he's not thoroughly figured it out. I know he's just trained to be quick and has a lot of experience, but I get the feeling he just wants me to hand him his car payment and get out.

...I went off topic a little there. Medicines are perfectly alright with me when the patient has been in a long-term deep blue funk (more than 6 months just to start off), has tried a few things that didn't work, and/or have had a family history of the thing. The other allowance is that they're seriously teetering on the deep end (Comrade, I don't like to use people as an example, but seeing dead bodies is a good example of seriously teetering. You're an example of one of the few people who needed help, in that instance.)

Medication is NOT necessary and might even hurt when it is situational ("I lost my job" / "I am a teenager" / "Some jackass on the internet told me to tough it out"). It's also bad when the depression (or anxiety) can be solved by something else like a better lifestyle (get off your ass and quit eating McDonalds). The worst case I can think of, though this is probably relatively rare, is cases where a doctor is really seriously a quack and says "You're depressed. Here's Expensapro" when you come in because of, say, a chest pain or a bad cold.

	29-08-2003 03:17									#80
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

It's amazed me just how many people who post on this board are on/were on anti-depressants!

	29-08-2003 03:30									#81
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

In my previous posts I outlined some new information that has come to light. By saying what I did, I certainly didn't mean to demean anyone. These are powerful and new to relatively new medications. I only urge caution. Do your research...things are advancing so fast that no medical professional can keep up. Remember that you know your situation far better than any medical professional ever will. Listen, research, think. Then make a decision that works best for your situation. If that is taking medication, then you will at least know you made the right decision.

	29-08-2003 03:42									#82
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Anyone else thought this was going to be a thread about E?

I'm also surprised at the objections some people express to body/mind modifications. My brain chemistry is currently tickity-boo but if it wasn't and meds where the only option, I certainly wouldn't be so violently against taking the red pill.

So it's an unnatural state of mind. *shrug* The natural state certainly wasn't working. We walk around in fake furs and synthetic fibres, breathing polluted air in a changing climate, on our way to get our latest piercing/ink job/surgical correction of the aging process done during our lunch break. Let's crack open the skull and feast on the yummy chemical insides. Mine currently tastes of actylchlorine with a faint undertaste of ethanol, caffiene, THC and the last metabolic remains of herbal E. Enjoy.

	29-08-2003 03:59									#83
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I've been on antidepressants and found them helpful, but I want to recommend depression management. Treat you happiness as something as important as income or girlfriends, and be concious of what gives you joy. Being outside, having friends, playing upbeat music, maybe even, GULP, getting away from the computer occasionally. Use them to suplement your medication, as they don't have side effects. Spend some of the time you have to aquire things, doing the things that help you aquire happiness.

	29-08-2003 04:13									#84
	Re: Happy Pills Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Lorizael Soo, I've joined the ranks of depressed teenagers on SSRIs. My doctor has given me a bunch of sample pills of this stuff called Lexapro, which he described as a third generation Prozac. Apparently this is supposed to be good, new stuff. Now, I've done my own research on this drug, simply because I wasn't gonna put something in my body if I didn't know exactly what it was going to do to me, but I want to know more. Are there any Apolytoners on Lexapro? If so, can you tell me how you've fared on it, what kind of side effects it's given you, whether or not you've noticed any beneficial effects? Thanks in advance.

Lexapro is the long acting form of Celexa. The only major problem is the permanent eradication of your sperm count. Just kidding. Enjoy.

	29-08-2003 04:21									#86
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Feephi This may sound harsh but it is the truth.

Just a few questions about your depression:

1. Have you been diagnosed with Major Depression with Psychotic Symptoms, psychosis, obsessive compulsive disorder, post traumatic stress syndrome all at the same time? If no, please do not attempt to speak with authority on the subject.
2. Have you seen dead bodies lining your house? If no, see above.
3. Have you locked yourself in your bathroom for hours at a time because you THOUGHT that something was going to posess you to kill your children? If no, see above.
4. Maybe you refused to eat ANYTHING for days at a time because you thought you were going to die from them?
5. Did you feel that someone was near you about to kill you?
6. Did you hallucinate about people being in your house?

I'm sorry, but it does stir up a lot of emotions when people say "tough it out". I tried that and it put me in a situaiton worse than I was in.
These people have NO idea what I've gone through personally. They have no idea what its like to sometimes go 1.5 days without sleep because your afraid something terrible might happen, or almost calling the police because you see a dead body lying in your bed.
They have no idea what I went through when I used to see my childrens eyes turn pure black, or when I began to see faces in the TV when I was watching it. They have no idea what its like to constantly live in fear, thinking ANYTHING and EVERYTHING was going to kill you at THAT VERY MOMENT.
They have no idea what its like to have to stay inside the house, doing nothing, stayiing up till godknowswhen before theyre bodies physically put them to sleep (and sometimes that wouldn't even kick in!).

I'm tired of people saying "tough up and it'll go away". Because they havent the faintest idea at all.
Ugh.

	29-08-2003 04:31									#87
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell long-term deep blue funk (more than 6 months just to start off)

Check. Five years.

quote: has tried a few things that didn't work

Check. Total reworking of my personality, a psychologist, a lot of thinking upon what my goals for the future were, attempting to become more social, etc...

quote: have had a family history of the thing

My mother, my father, both of my brothers, an aunt and a few grandparents. That I know of.

I think I've made the right decision.

	29-08-2003 05:17									#88
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Well, the five years were during your teenage years, that blurs the data a little bit. But with the family history and psycho(logist) not working, you probably made the right decision.

	29-08-2003 21:04									#89
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: I am still aware of the problems in my life but....

This is it. Taking a pill doesn't sort your life out at all, it just provides a gloss over it.

Kind of like taking a crap car and giving it a new colour - doesn't help to sort out the things that really need improving.

	29-08-2003 21:17									#90
	Full PM-box? Change here!

It's more like replacing a car that breaks down every 10 feet with one that will run for a while, to let you go places.