29-08-2003 21:21									#91
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Yes, but you're not changing your life by taking a pill.

	29-08-2003 21:29									#92
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Who said you were?

The pill helps you take control, doesn't change your life.

	29-08-2003 21:31									#93
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Why does depression stop you taking control. Don't be a pussi.

	29-08-2003 21:51									#94
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Obviously you've never been truly depressed if you have to ask such a stupid question.

	29-08-2003 22:59									#95
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Bods, those pills can get you the motivation and confidence you need to sort out problems. And believe it or not, those 'situational' things can actually result in long term changes in your neurochemistry. If you expose a cell to a stimulus for too long it will become desensitised initially by enzymic means, and eventually by changes in the pattern of genetic expression...the latter is what can happen. I hate the way some of you seem to speak with some sort of authority on the chemical nature of depression and anxiety when you really don't know what you are talking about...I've got a lot more confidence since I have been taking antidepressants, more direction.

Stew, you know perfectly well what depression is all about...stop being a tw@t...

	29-08-2003 23:09									#96
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We all need to listen to Boddington's. Those so-called "psychiatrists" have only studied psychology, neurology, and pharmacology for a few years. Bodds, on the other hand, has heard about all the effects of these drugs from countless TV commercials, Fox special news reports, and several reliable afternoon talk shows. He's the real expert here.

	30-08-2003 00:44									#97
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quote: Originally posted by Elok We all need to listen to Boddington's. Those so-called "psychiatrists" have only studied psychology, neurology, and pharmacology for a few years. Bodds, on the other hand, has heard about all the effects of these drugs from countless TV commercials, Fox special news reports, and several reliable afternoon talk shows. He's the real expert here.

And you're absolutely certain of the integrity of your psychiatrist? That he feels no financial motivation to keep you in therapy or trying new drugs all of the time. Even if you can answer "yes" to that question, that's only your individual experience and rest assured not everyone is so lucky. How do you know he's guiding you properly? How do you know you're getting his full attention and effort?

	30-08-2003 00:48									#98
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quote: We all need to listen to Boddington's. Those so-called "psychiatrists" have only studied psychology, neurology, and pharmacology for a few years. Bodds, on the other hand, has heard about all the effects of these drugs from countless TV commercials, Fox special news reports, and several reliable afternoon talk shows. He's the real expert here.

Which is the group that has financial incentives to offer pills?

Which is the group that is thus biased?



Rich, explain how this extra motivation and confidence has benefitted you, rather than just talking in vague terms. Offer examples.

Without the fog of mood-enhancers (heroin for all!) distorting reality, you can see things more clearly. Otherwise you're just being held up by artificial things - a stiltsman isn't really twelve foot tall is he.

	30-08-2003 01:21									#99
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quote: Originally posted by Feephi that's only your individual experience

I think everyone should take heed of this phrase. Yes, even you Feephi

	30-08-2003 03:02									#100
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's Which is the group that has financial incentives to offer pills? Which is the group that is thus biased? Rich, explain how this extra motivation and confidence has benefitted you, rather than just talking in vague terms. Offer examples. Without the fog of mood-enhancers (heroin for all!) distorting reality, you can see things more clearly. Otherwise you're just being held up by artificial things - a stiltsman isn't really twelve foot tall is he.

Agh! You're not getting it!

Your body produces serotonin, a chemical that affects mood. The more serotonin, the better your mood. Sometimes the parts of your body that manage your serotonin levels can malfunction. They don't work right anymore. Antidepressants fix that malfunction.

When you have cancer, it's because the cells in your body aren't working right anymore. They're doing things they shouldn't be doing. So you take drugs that are designed to stop that. You don't just tough it! You don't think that because you can't see the cancer, it's all in your head and there's nothing you can do about it.

I think I might have more to say, but I'm going to dinner, so I'll think more on this later.

Sometimes people are sad. That's fine, you can fix being sad. But sometimes your brain stops working the way it should. There's a difference.

	30-08-2003 03:16									#101
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We have the FDA for a reason, geniuses. They have determined that Prozac et al are safe and effective for use in humans. They have been doing that sort of test for many years. They have people with doctorates working on said tests. They are wrong at times, but you do not have the right to assume without evidence that professionals are incompetent.
And if you are implying that your average doctor will knowingly encourage his patient to use dangerous substances for his own financial gain, you've been watching too much of the frigging ten o'clock news. Not every person on this earth is a comic-book supervillain.

	30-08-2003 04:08									#102
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's Why does depression stop you taking control. Don't be a pussi.

Oowwwwhhhhhh. More advice from "Mr. Well - Adjusted."

Some people consider fascism to be a symptom of depression, like the Columbine killer lads for instance.

	30-08-2003 05:04									#103
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Don't get my thread closed, Doc.

	30-08-2003 11:19									#104
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Depression is a LOT like insomnia - if you've never had it before, you don't know what you're missing.

	30-08-2003 11:29									#105
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I think brain pills should be reserved for those with more serious complaints, such as schizophrenia. Someone I have known for two years had to drop out of uni as a result of his illness and the side-effects of his medications.

If you are feeling down, get out there and do something about it. Exercise, get fit, and meet people in an exciting range of new hobbies. If you still feel bad after all that, then maybe you do have a problem.

But it's no wonder people get depressed when going to work, watching TV and sitting on the net are their activities of choice.

	30-08-2003 11:33									#106
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Have you seen Gloria Estefan's hair lately? WTF?!?!

	30-08-2003 17:46									#107
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Wow.. People trying to drag bods out of his narrow social view. That alone makes me depressed enough to search through the medicine cabinet and try to make some homemade prozac.

	30-08-2003 18:20									#108
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what is sweet lady liquor?

and how does jumping in front of a train or hanging myself up or so "make me stronger as a person"?

	30-08-2003 21:08									#109
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quote: Originally posted by Starchild Wow.. People trying to drag bods out of his narrow social view. That alone makes me depressed enough to search through the medicine cabinet and try to make some homemade prozac.

It's like he's not even listening, sigh.

	30-08-2003 21:23									#110
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's Which is the group that has financial incentives to offer pills? Which is the group that is thus biased?

I've no idea, but it isn't the doctors or pharmacists.

Did you really think they got paid by the pill?

	30-08-2003 21:28									#111
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By the pill? No.

	30-08-2003 21:35									#112
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Carry on.

	31-08-2003 00:26									#113
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quote: Drug companies distribute educational material free of charge to medical schools; they pay for doctors to attend conferences and symposia overseas. There are currently very few academic meetings not sponsored directly by the industry.

"Young psychiatrists are tutored in a very narrow understanding of human beings and their problems, and are not trained to think beyond the medical approach or to offer alternatives. So, despite the glamour of Prozac, the reality is that many psychiatric patients complain that all they get from their doctors is one drug followed by another."

And unrelated to your thread, but related to this thread:

quote: Clinical trials suggest that between 60% and 70% of those given the active drug gain benefit. However, between 40% and 50% of those given placebo report a substantial improvement. This indicates that the clinical effect due to the pharmacological properties of these drugs is at best marginal.

And to top it all Laz, it's all from your favourite bias.

http://society.guardian.co.uk/menta...,660311,00.html

	31-08-2003 03:42									#114
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So where's the financial incentive you mentioned?

Incidentally, where anti-depressants are concerned, the difference between 40-50% and 60-70% is millions of people...

	31-08-2003 04:32									#115
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Absence and absinthe make the heart grow founder.

	31-08-2003 04:38									#116
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quote: Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp Did you really think they got paid by the pill?

Pharmacists are paid. Their livelihood depends on people buying drugs but their not not the ones who perscribe medications. The big problem is the psychologists who over perscribe medications. an excellent example is ADD and the use of ritalin. They have narrowly decided upon what is "normal" behavior for a child and then everyone who is out side of their disciption is "abnormal". The problem is 1/3 is called abnormal. Many doctors now contend that these kids are perfectly normal and it is our difinitions which are abnormal.

	31-08-2003 04:47									#117
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Pharmacists don't write perscriptions.

	31-08-2003 04:51									#118
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Pharmacists write receipts. DOCTORS can write prescriptions, which are actually just suggestions, if you think about it.

	31-08-2003 05:56									#119
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It really p!sses me off when people think depression is something you can just click your fingers and snap out of, and that those who are perpetually depressed are too lazy to do the mental legwork.

In my experience, those with depression are usually that ones that are intelligent enough to arrive at a depressing conclusion about their lives. A suprisingly high number of those are philosophical people who can work within that.

Bodds et all: You don't seem to understand that when depressed you literally "cant" be happy. You can laugh, have fun etc, but that is all superficial, the depression and pain is all very close under the surface. For various chemical reasons, you simply cant be happy for prolonged periods of time. Consider yourself lucky that you dont understand it, because if you did, you were probably there.

	31-08-2003 06:28									#120
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Some people who suffer depression are REALLY good actors. My 'friends' and family have never believed I've EVER had a bad day, nor do they believe I'm depressed.

The scars on my wrists are what my doctors have labelled "hesitation marks" - what people who aren't depressed do to entertain themselves, apparently.

They just thought I was bummed about the BeeGees getting back together.