23-10-2003 23:59									#31
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Sounds interesting.

	24-10-2003 00:42									#32
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It really is I added a deeper form of sea one where no food can survive you can only really use it for production.

Then you have the modifications to deep sea rifts , channels and basically missing tiles actocrap should have added

Then deep sea rifts and mountains

	24-10-2003 04:17									#33
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An extra sea tile then? so how long is this gonna take?

	24-10-2003 14:19									#34
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depends on how long activision keep the source code as there is no rule for the continental shelf and there is one two many tiles to create a working rule easy

	24-10-2003 16:37									#35
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For ctp 2 there are 46 tile rules to deal with continental shelf’s and every one of them uses -6 and -5 which I don’t have a clue what they are so I am well and truly stuffed with that deep shelf’s plus then I have to add other tile rules all suing the minus symbols fun hey

	24-10-2003 19:21									#36
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quote: Originally posted by The Big Mc For ctp 2 there are 46 tile rules to deal with continental shelf’s and every one of them uses -6 and -5 which I don’t have a clue what they are so I am well and truly stuffed with that deep shelf’s plus then I have to add other tile rules all suing the minus symbols fun hey

rt*hf

Mc, do you have any idea how much time was spent on the information in that help-file? well neither have I, but it is not counted in man-hours, but rather in months. (You probably contributed to it yourself)

Try opening TileEdit, go to Add or Edit TileRule and press the Help-button and you will find the following information:

• -5: shallow, beach
  
• -6: shelf, trench
  

Remember: If everithing else fails, read the manual (or in lack of a printed version, the help-file)

Martin the Dane

	24-10-2003 21:40									#37
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Ok in the screen shot below you can see I experimented with no borders like Maq did a long time ago, except I added some terrain outside the top left and right edges on the grassland and plains graphics in an attempt to get around the square borders look and make more earth like terrain.

You'll see the gray borders showing the new edges of the terrain. I only made one bigtile of eachgrassland and plain so thats why they look uniform. If this looks good and people like I'm thinking about cutting some of thegood earthy shapes from the mix terrain files of Civ3 and use that on the edges of thesquare tiles and get rid of border rules.

you'll notice that there is still the "triangle cut out problm" that we had with the mountains though.. I might have to "blend" around it so its not square and rigid.

Attachment: big tiles.jpg
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	24-10-2003 22:07									#38
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martin

In the tile edit version I have used in the past never had a manual :eek

V3.0.2 for the record

Now I know there’s a help fill I am happy

E

I think you will have a major problem with overlapping look at the grass land beach border its crossing over and nearly hitting the sea

	24-10-2003 22:26									#39
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quote: Originally posted by The Big Mc V3.0.2 for the record

V0.3.0.20 I presume, the last version without a propper help-file. V0.3.0.21 through V1.0.0.26 used the same help file. The help-file was updated in build 27 with the info on Variation-rules.

But the info is available in "Script file format.txt" from build 8

	24-10-2003 22:30									#40
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well i got the new version after the v rule was added

	25-10-2003 19:24									#41
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quote: You'll see the gray borders showing the new edges of the terrain. I only made one bigtile of eachgrassland and plain so thats why they look uniform. If this looks good and people like I'm thinking about cutting some of thegood earthy shapes from the mix terrain files of Civ3 and use that on the edges of thesquare tiles and get rid of border rules.

I agree with the Big M you could have more problems with the borders, but i would like to see the effect with more earthy shapes on the tiles.

I think the reason the unbalanced or uneven look works so well on civ3 tiles is because theyre bigger than ctp2 tiles, they have more room for details, because they dont need borders. With ctp2 tiles i think its more you have to create the detail using a pattern of a few tiles or borders, which is a challenge to look less uniform.

	25-10-2003 22:13									#42
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Maq you are right about the civ3 tiles, they are bigger but also the civ3 system also allows some 20 tiles with different terrains mixed on them to replace grasslands etc, you can see it in there terrain graphics files. If I mess with it enough I probably could do the same if i figure out what the tile rules are like: what tile does Ctp2 pick to put grasland next to desert or to a plains etc, then i could do a mix tile.

	25-10-2003 23:08									#43
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Yeah thats right E, but would it produce the same large pattern on the whole terrain? Thats one thing i couldnt really figure out, so i didnt bother trying. I can give you a hand with the terrains if you want.

	26-10-2003 02:01									#44
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Dumb question but how does civ 3 deal with tile borders

	26-10-2003 02:07									#45
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It doesnt, theyre all "full" tiles weaved together so no borders at all. It can be repetitive if you know what to look for, but on the whole it looks random and also looks less blocky because the tiles know which tiles theyre gonna be next to so they can overlap.

ps join #lemuria for the dg chat

	26-10-2003 04:11									#46
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The way I see it is that forest, hills, mountains, jungles share the same border.
As well as tundra snow w mountains w hill share the same border

While civ3 desert, plains and marsh have different ones

That makes a total of 25 tile borders

Which if you look at civ3 screen shots the images seam to blend so just copy that

ill post and example

	26-10-2003 16:45									#47
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The main question is E what do you want

An alternative tile file or an alternative tile set were a user can customise what tiles he wants form yours and the original ctp !

	26-10-2003 21:44									#48
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A tile file that includes both CTP2 and Civ3 tiles requires some modding to make it work, while an alternative tile file can be put at the place of the original tile file and it is mod independent.

-Martin

	27-10-2003 01:45									#49
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not really martin all it would take is to splice the tile file data in txt file as aposed to in tile edit the only added on image data would be the border images which would not take long at all

and the actual splicing process would take a mater of minutes rather then hours I would have to read up however

	28-10-2003 19:59									#50
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I kinda wanted to make a new set of terrain graphics to attract more players, especially with the source code comingout and the assumption that you guys will make some great additions to the game. Of course graphics is an eye candy thing some like, some dont. So I'll just throw them into a tilefile and also upload all the TGAs to give the option of replacing the graphics or letting modders pick what they want.

	28-10-2003 21:53									#51
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Why not make a completely new tileset E? Redo all the tilefile, even new sea/beach tiles. All we need to do is copy the original tile's layout but with (hopefully) more detailed, more colourful and interesting graphics, like it really feels like your looking down on real terrain and not a cartoonish landscape. Itll take a while but the best thing to do is do the work for yourself, because youll eventually lose interest in the project if your doing it for other people.

	11-04-2004 20:53									#52
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I'm still cranking away on the update. I am looking to add SnOOpy's sea tiles, with the cliffs. So far the beaches look good. I'll post an in progress review hopefully in a week.

	12-04-2004 20:12									#53
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Great news E. I look forward to seeing your new work.

	20-04-2004 06:05									#54
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Onepresent,

I'm still working on the sea tiles. I've seen your work and I'm looking for some advice. Attached are the Rifts cut out and place on Snoopy's ocean tile, and of course theregular rifts. I want to give the oceans a feel of seeing the water but seeing the rift under the water. CTP2 makes it almost look like land. I guess blurring would help but I'd like to hear your two cents first.

Thanks for the help.

Attachment: image2.jpg
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	20-04-2004 06:27									#55
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Have you looked at it on a full screen? I took the above image and put this tile in the corner. Looks pretty good to me. I'm not sure if what you are after is possible with CTPII as it now stands. I like the way CTPII handles marshes/swamps, but because the water the is "self-enclosed" it has options about blending blues the ocean tiles don't have. Maybe if the programmers allow us to add a couple of pixels of animations, some "water shimmering" would get what you are after.

Attachment: rift.jpg
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	21-04-2004 01:05									#56
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Thanks one present.

I think the tile you added was the original CtpII I pasted for reference. But your shimmer hint was good. I'm messing with it now, I'm going to blur the original rift (but try to make it not look like an oil slick) and then ad the shimmers. I think it should give the effect. thanks.

	21-04-2004 02:57									#57
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If you make a moving shimmer use a the effect spr file you could use it in the original game too. There was a source code debate about this.

	21-04-2004 17:32									#58
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I guess a shimmer sprite would just be small sploches changing color from light blue white to dark blue etc. Of course there is the debate about what it would add etc.

	29-04-2004 08:39									#59
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Attached is a draft of the second version with new beach and sea cliffs. Some tiles still need to be added. THis is very draft and I'll post the 555/565.til files. I'll post a screen shot when I find my CTP2 disc...



#2 removed latest is #4 (4-may-04)

(see first post for latest)

Last edited by E on 29-05-2004 at 08:16

	29-04-2004 18:24									#60
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Wow, looking excellent so far brightens the whole terrain up too.

BTW you only have to zip and upload 565.til for us to use it E. The game doesnt use the other one.