11-09-2003 09:47									#1
	How do i play civ 3 the way i want to play it? Increase the size of your Attachments

I'm a civ veteran. Ever since civ 1, through to civ CTP and SMAC.

Those games, i was frustrated at the lack of AI. They AI was stupid, and unchallenging.

When Civ 3 came out, i got sick of it pretty quickly because of a few reasons that look to have been since fixed up with the latest 1.29 patch. So here i am playing it again.

but i want to play a game where the planet is HUGE. I don't mean huge as in the games version of 'huge'. I'm thinking of something like 4x that size.

Is that possible. In SMAC, you could open up a txt file and modify away, but unfortunately, the game didn't like BIG maps (anything over 256x256) and i would constantly have the AI do something half way though the game that made it lock up. Very annoying.

Anyways, considering Civ 3 is newer, i thought it may be possible to enjoy a HUGE game, without the problems i had in SMAC.

If it is, then is it possible to modify the corruption you get in cities for being to far away from the capital? Obviously, with a map 4x the size, you'll want to halve the capital distance penalties. Can this be done too.

Why would i want that? Well, i just have a fetish for HUGE epic style games, where even in the modern era, it takes 10 turns to get to that continent ruled by the AI.

At the moment, i play on a 'huge' map with only 5 AI. Which is kind of the civ/land ratio i'm looking for.


Another thing you guys may be able to help me with is, How many cities can you have in Civ 3? Is there a limit where things start to get ugly?

Exactly how good is the AI later in ther game? From what i've seen so far is good. In civ2 and the like, the AI would only build like 20 cities and then stop, and those cities kind've sucked never having good buildings in them etc. I would just build up an avanced army and walk all over them. I want a challenge, especially in the post-modern era (after all tech has been discovered).

I want to build a massive army, build a lot of transports, and a massive navy, and an airforce on lots of carriers, and then send them over and attack a civ. Will i just walk over them, or do they actually give me a challenge?

What i would like to see even more is the AI doing that to me. Will they. Is the AI good enough to launch such attasks?

Another thing that i couldn't find in your FAQ or the manual was the 'disappearing' of resources. Do luxury resourse eventually run out? I know the stategic ones do. What happens when they all run out? Do they reappear somewhere else?

Thanks for your time guys.

	11-09-2003 09:53									#2
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Hi.

Luxuries do not run out. Some resources disappear and reappear elsewhere. That's from the luck of the draw. There are some resources such as horses which will not shift. Someone probably knows where to find a file containing information on each resource on whether they shift or not.

As for discussions on how good the AI is, there is really no one source describing the AI. But it's pretty well accepted the AI is competent but not spectacular. Fixes since 1.29f have made it a little tougher in the early game though. In the late game, it has trouble handling some of the 3 movement units, always a complaint among people here.


I would recommend 2 things.

#1 buy C3C when it comes out this month. You get last year's xpansion pack content and the new content as well. The AI tweaks and modificaitons post 1.29f as well as new units and civilizations to play with are worth the price of entry.

#2 I would highly encourage you to play a huge map game (256X256 or larger) with 16 civs, and 24, or 31 civs when you get Civ3 Conquests (C3C).
The game dynamics is just so different with so many AI civs running around.

Because the Civ 3 AI is a lot more blind when it comes to differentiating between human/AI players, you won't feel picked on, unless you initiate things that makes the AI hate you, like breaking 20 turn deals before they are up.

I encourage you to check out the following threads.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=96605

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=84645






Have a nice day

	11-09-2003 10:36									#3
	Inflate your Upload Space

I would warn you about playing on maps of 250 or more and 24 civs or more. It requires a lot of horse power. I saw some turns of nearly a 1/2 hour on 3.02GH machine. If many civs are at war with lots of units, it could be painful. That is not the length of all turns, some when a few minutes.

	11-09-2003 11:30									#4
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 I would warn you about playing on maps of 250 or more and 24 civs or more. It requires a lot of horse power. I saw some turns of nearly a 1/2 hour on 3.02GH machine. If many civs are at war with lots of units, it could be painful. That is not the length of all turns, some when a few minutes.

1/2 an hour on 3.0 ghz machine? Either some heavy modding has gone on to make the game fly off the rails or something with the specs is acting as a bottleneck. Maybe a scheduled task like an anti-virus program was running in the background unkown to the user.

I've played 24 civs on 256X256 maps before on my old p3 450 and it ran fine. A few minutes of processing in most normal turns. 16 civs on the huge map provided by the game usually take a few minutes when world wars are going on.

	11-09-2003 11:37									#5
	Increase the size of your Attachments

[QUOTE] Originally posted by dexters


1/2 an hour on 3.0 ghz machine?

Hmmm.. Can you provide full system specs?

	11-09-2003 11:52									#6
	Remove this text

Pent IV 3.02GH 1G mem 9800 Radeon PRO running XP PRO SP1.

This was a game I let all the civs have fun and get into modern age and was mostly water. I did not paly to win, but to see how big the AI's would get and how much a load they would create. When little or no combat, a turn was fast. If anyone was in action, it could be a lot turn. The game will want to recalc all trade routes, if any city falls or harbors or airports are destroyed. You could actually sit for several minutes when a settler created a new city.
I ran the game on my 1.7GH machine and some turns took nearly an hour. That machine was a Win98SE.
I think the big key is it was all large islands with 24 civs. I think only one or two islands had more than 2 civs, many only had one. Many civs had 2-3 hundred units.
If you played normally, it would probably be a lot less of a drag. You would see some civ eliminated and with less water, you get less trade calculations.

	11-09-2003 12:36									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

We were having this discussion about game loads on large maps a few months back.

I think the reason it may take so long between turns is the water. It was you, I think, who speculated that trade routes have to be calculated over every water tile, on account of the blockade feature. And that makes sense, as I've played 24 civs on a 256X256 pangea map with my old P3 450 and it ran solidly, with 2-5 minute turns under normal conditions.

For such an infrequently used feature, I think Firaxis should let players disable the blockade feature and calculate water trade routes differently to speed up some games, and loading some games as well.

BTW, You've got a nice rig. HT enabled?

	11-09-2003 12:44									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

What size are the 'huge' maps exactly? Are they 256x256?

Is there a txt file that can be modified in civ3 as in SMAC?

How many Expansion Packs are there? I know there is the play the world, and the one you mentioned that is coming out next month (maybe not here in Australia). Is there another?

If i don't have PTW, will i get Multiplayer if i buy Conquests (is that the name of the new expansion pack)

	11-09-2003 13:14									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Yes, Civ3 Conquests will include all the content from PtW (the only exp. pack so far), including multiplayer. Plus the new stuff; read the C3C forum to see what is new. I recommand you especially this thread:

Comprehensive Feature List in Conquests

As for the maps, I don't know. I don't play on larger maps than "regular". I don't have the time for it. Even on such a map (regular) I feel teribly bored to move 100+ MAs and MIs (plus bombers and arties and battleships and whatnot) around in the modern era, so I usually quit playing or I try to win with UN vote or culture or anything that shortens the game.

Last edited by Tiberius on 11-09-2003 at 13:22

	11-09-2003 13:53									#10
	Get a bigger avatar today!

The game is coded to include only 16 civs max on the standard large map size 160X160.

You can however increase both # of civs and map size on the editor.

Max # of civs is 31 and max map size if 320x320. As vmxa1 noted, caveat emptor when playing on the higher end of the spectrum with regards to map size and civ count

Tiberius, I think you're missing out on the large map experience.

There have been several threads by a few people talking about the fun of playing these maps. The key word is fun.

It's not about the points, winning early, or any of that. It's about watching all these AI systems interacting with each other, the map and you. The game on these scale, with lots of civs, tends to you less "player centered" and there's lots of opportunities of Machiavellian style of play. Refer to one of the two links I gave earlier.

	11-09-2003 18:39									#11
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So, how do i play pn these 320x320 maps with 31 civs???

	11-09-2003 20:05									#12
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quote: Originally posted by snoochems So, how do i play pn these 320x320 maps with 31 civs???

pretty easy to change the map size in the editor. As for expanding the civ list, you'll have to make your own new ones up to 31 or download a set or individuals from here or civfanatics.com.

	11-09-2003 21:15									#13
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Although I'd recommend you play with 24 civs... wait till Conquests for 31.

	11-09-2003 21:21									#14
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quote: Originally posted by dexters BTW, You've got a nice rig. HT enabled?

Yup. I get a new machine each year for E3. My son comes out to E3 and I give him current one. I will get one set for gaming. Last year I I build one instead, but I did not want to bother with it this year.

	11-09-2003 21:27									#15
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

One big pain to me with 24 civs, is it is a nightmare to use the F4 screen This really needs to be addressed.
A one glance method would be so nice. Trying to figure out who all may have MPP's with others so I can tell if I need to worry about dog piles, is a drag.
Want to sell a tech or a map or do any deals with 24 civs, ouch.

	12-09-2003 05:23									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

So, let me get this straight. Conquests will have everything that PTW had, plus a lot moore cool stuff.
....so would i be a fool to go out and but PTW now?

is there any advantage in owning both expansions over just Conquests?

	12-09-2003 05:30									#17
	Put an end to popups!

As far as I know, nope...!

	12-09-2003 05:31									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I can't find exactly where i'm suppose to change the map sizes... help

	12-09-2003 05:38									#19
	Increase the size of your Attachments

How about editing the capitol curruption distance?

	12-09-2003 05:41									#20
	Get a bigger avatar today!

BTW guys, are there any REHAB clinics for ppl who are addicted to civ3?

	12-09-2003 06:26									#21
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quote: Originally posted by snoochems BTW guys, are there any REHAB clinics for ppl who are addicted to civ3?

No but we did have a thread on the subject. I t dealt with a means to limit play time IIRC.

	12-09-2003 06:27									#22
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quote: Originally posted by snoochems How about editing the capitol curruption distance?

Take a crusie through the creation thread. It may have those answers.

	12-09-2003 07:07									#23
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(The following apply to the PTW editor)

quote: Luxuries do not run out.

You can modify the game so they can (Natural Resources tab). But they do not reappear as with Strategic Resources: once they go, they are gone and you will have to adjust with your Entertainment slider.

quote: I can't find exactly where i'm suppose to change the map sizes... help

World Sizes tab

quote: How about editing the capitol curruption distance?

You don't, directly, because it is relative to other cities. There is World Sizes tab, Optimal Number of Cities. Also, Difficulty Levels tab, "Percentage of optimal cities" and Corruption level slider.

The way I want to play Conquests is to be able to have ANY (not just fast) units retreat from combat. Not that I have much hope in the matter, but I am an old-time (pre-computer) wargamer where "Defender Retreat" was a common result.

EDIT: I want any unit to be able to retreat, regardless of fast unit status.

	12-09-2003 07:49									#24
	Re: How do i play civ 3 the way i want to play it? Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by snoochems but i want to play a game where the planet is HUGE. I don't mean huge as in the games version of 'huge'. I'm thinking of something like 4x that size. Another thing you guys may be able to help me with is, How many cities can you have in Civ 3? Is there a limit where things start to get ugly? Exactly how good is the AI later in ther game?

The maximum number of cities in any game is 512 for all civs combined.

Within that overall limit of 512, individual civs are limited by corruption. You can go into the editor to change the optimium city number which effectively controls the number of cities an AI civ will build. You may also change the corruption values in the editor (see the "world sizes" tab IIRC). You can effectively edit corruption out but every civ will then be trying to build 512 cities each.

The AI is serviceable in the later game. The AI is not good at invading another continent and does co-ordinate its attacks well and has a few tactical problems. The AI really needs to outnumber you to put up any sort of fight (but then the AI in any game I have ever played needs to outnumber the human).

	13-09-2003 04:32									#25
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

If you ever want to start a game like your talking about, Im down to play. My ICQ is 264629772

	13-09-2003 11:45									#26
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Brandenburg, i'd love too, but i havent' got a decent internet connection.

	13-09-2003 23:55									#27
	Increase Your PM Length

You might like to try AU 402: Gargantua.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=90539

	14-09-2003 00:00									#28
	Remove this text

Now that is cruel.

	14-09-2003 00:14									#29
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

It's pretty much what was requested, although perhaps not as spread out.

	14-09-2003 01:57									#30
	Increase Your PM Length

If I ever get the problem resolved with PTW and my PC, I am thinking of playing that one again, but this time play it normally, to see how long the turns get to be.