08-10-2003 13:06									#331
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quote: Originally posted by finbar BTW. The only way I can access this thread now is via the little envelope on the LHS of the thread title. That takes me to the first page of the thread, from where I jump to the last page. Very odd.

Same with me. I have to open the thread header, then jump to the last page. This opens the last page up as a jumbled mess, so I press back, then forward, and it comes right somewhat. I wonder what on earth has happened.

I see the AB's have taken Ali Williams with them!! His foot is healing nicely, and they hope to play him in the last of the pool games.

	08-10-2003 13:09									#332
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quote: Originally posted by Havak *Edit* Pleased to see that wlell regarded Frenchman Tony Marsh has been recalled after beating cancer. France definitely look better wioth him in the side.

I think Tamerlin will confirm that M'sieur Marsh was, in fact, born M'sieur Marais, in Carcasonne, and only anglicised his name while holidaying in New Zealand.

*Havak scrambles for his French dictionary*

quote: I also look forward to Finbar turning a wry on on todays news that the England Georgia game is only half sold so far. Apparently the organisers in Perth claim they are fighting the inertia of a public perception that the games were sold out long ago.

Mmmmm. Might have something to do with the cricket. The first Australia -v- Zimbabwe Test starts tomorrow. OTOH, it will probably be all over by the time the rugby starts. Once they know there are tickets available, the tickets will go. Sh*tloads of Poms and Boks in Perth. Not to mention ravagon.

	08-10-2003 13:14									#333
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quote: Originally posted by Andydog Same with me. I have to open the thread header, then jump to the last page. This opens the last page up as a jumbled mess, so I press back, then forward, and it comes right somewhat. I wonder what on earth has happened.

This site has been riddled with faults since they went to a brand new, supposedly crash hot, all-problems-solved server. They also seem to run into problems with some of the organisations to whom they rent ad space, who, in turn, sub-let it to undesirables who infect the place with goodness knows what.

There's also, of course, the possibility that Tamerlin's self-indulgent over-use of his s has somehow buggered the system.

quote: I see the AB's have taken Ali Williams with them!! His foot is healing nicely, and they hope to play him in the last of the pool games.

Yes, with Big Norm as cover for him.

	08-10-2003 14:05									#334
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Best find a Druid here to rain on the Witch Doctor’s parade then.

quote: And the qualification will be judged to be prescience when you dip out in the QFs.

The favourite opponents for us to meet at QF stage is either Wales or NZ. So we can’t go out before the SF with France now can we?

(note to Kiwi guys – that was sarcasm)

quote: And I use Mozilla, with pop ups blocked, so I never see those things.

I must get around to setting up an alternative browser myself.

quote: *Havak begins to twitch uncontrollably knowing his lads are now going to have to stand up to the reputation he has bestowed upon them*

Have I oversold them? I don’t think so. It’s the best equiped England team ever to leave our shores and fully capable of beating absolutely anyone else in the tournament. But I’ve been around long enough to know ‘many a slip twixt cup and lip’ is a saying based in fact.
I see Michael Jones has now praised England as one of the most technically proficient formidable packs ever (according to him second to his 96 outfit, according to ME even better!) but still picked NZ with his heart.

What price Italy an upset in the opening game? Long odds I suspect.

quote: *Havak scrambles for his French dictionary*

I actually speak French fluently. At an 18 month old level.

Australia-Zimbabwe? Something of a mismatch methinks!

Isn’t there going to be a delicious irony in Tamerlin using by the bucket load when reacting to the suggestion his use of by that bucketload is causing problems? Or is it just me?

Williams, if fit, seems to be the best option open to the ABs. Lets see if his foot holds in full contact gameplay. And lets hope the injury to it stops him pumping it up and down on another players head again perhaps?

	08-10-2003 14:25									#335
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quote: Originally posted by Havak I must get around to setting up an alternative browser myself.

Mozilla's a corker, I reckon. Along with Safari, but being a Bill Gates acolyte, you can't use Safari!

quote: But I’ve been around long enough to know ‘many a slip twixt cup and lip’ is a saying based in fact.

I've got the witch doctor working on that one too!

quote: I see Michael Jones has now praised England as one of the most technically proficient formidable packs ever (according to him second to his 96 outfit, according to ME even better!) but still picked NZ with his heart.

I'm with Jones on the pack situation. Most of all, they didn't rely on one man to the extent that yours does.

quote: What price Italy an upset in the opening game? Long odds I suspect.

I liked the coach's line this morning. He wants the Italians to play the way Italians drive.

quote: Isn’t there going to be a delicious irony in Tamerlin using by the bucket load when reacting to the suggestion his use of by that bucketload is causing problems? Or is it just me?

No, it's not just you. Presumably it will be like a dam of s bursting -

etc.

quote: Williams, if fit, seems to be the best option open to the ABs. Lets see if his foot holds in full contact gameplay. And lets hope the injury to it stops him pumping it up and down on another players head again perhaps?

Young and all as he is, I still don't think he's good enough around the ground.

	08-10-2003 15:34									#336
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quote: Mozilla's a corker, I reckon. Along with Safari, but being a Bill Gates acolyte, you can't use Safari!

I’ve got Mozilla downloaded – just need to get my act in gear with using it. I’m no Acolyte – but the reality of my working life is having to use MS stuff so one just has to get on with it really.

quote: I'm with Jones on the pack situation. Most of all, they didn't rely on one man to the extent that yours does.

The intensity may not be quite the same level without him I guess. Any pack that still figures Hill-Back-Dallaglio can’t be too shabby though – and Kay and Grewcock can hold their own in the second row. Our current front row is as young and powerful as any in world rugby. I can’t really pick out any huge weakness there if the main man is missing.

quote: I liked the coach's line this morning. He wants the Italians to play the way Italians drive.

It’s a wonderful line all right. If they do there will be 22 dented ABs after the 80 minutes that’s for sure.

I have never seen driving like I saw in Rome – and that includes the Arc de Triomphe in Paris (which has to be seen to be believed itself).

quote: Young and all as he is, I still don't think he's good enough around the ground.

Well I think it’s been well enough documented that he didn’t impress me much – but he is still probably their best option?

No sign of Mr yet. Of course he keeps rather nocturnal hours doesn’t he – a bit early for him yet?

	08-10-2003 17:20									#337
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quote: Originally posted by Havak The intensity may not be quite the same level without him I guess. Any pack that still figures Hill-Back-Dallaglio can’t be too shabby though – and Kay and Grewcock can hold their own in the second row. Our current front row is as young and powerful as any in world rugby. I can’t really pick out any huge weakness there if the main man is missing.

Without doubt, yours is a very, very good pack. Except the pack Mr Jones talked about didn't rely on one man to the extent that yours does. I'd also probably back that AB back row against yours, too. Oh, and your current hooker possibly qualifies to clean Fitzy's boots, but barely.

quote: I have never seen driving like I saw in Rome – and that includes the Arc de Triomphe in Paris (which has to be seen to be believed itself).

I've driven a lot in Italy. Into and out of and around Florence many times. It's actually not all that scary after the first ten minutes adjustment. You just have to go with the flow. If you want to change lanes, put on the blinker and go. Hesitation is what causes problems. And, for all the supposed reputation, I've rarely seen accidents.

quote: No sign of Mr yet. Of course he keeps rather nocturnal hours doesn’t he – a bit early for him yet?

Down at the factory supervising his latest batch. Or, more likely, checking out his hydroponic set up to make sure he's got a supply to get him through the next few - for him, frustrating - weeks.

	08-10-2003 17:38									#338
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quote: Oh, and your current hooker possibly qualifies to clean Fitzy's boots, but barely.

Did you notice how I only mentioned their age and gave a context of reference to current opponents only? I’ve been privileged in the build up to RWC to catch some highlights of Fitzy and I think the term ‘fierce competitor’ may have been made for him.

As for that back row, nope sorry. One legend from that era plies his trade in Leicester and as good as he undoubtedly is (and was) he is simply not Neil Back. And he is still three years younger than Neil - head to head at respective peaks Neil takes it by a KO. And Richard Hill is one of the best blind sides ever (he must be - TV pundits keep telling me depsite my olnly thinking him a hard grafter). Zinny over Dally? Yep, you get that one without argument!

quote: If you want to change lanes, put on the blinker and go. Hesitation is what causes problems.

Obeying traffic laws generally is what causes problems there – it catches the locals off guard as you suggest.

quote: checking out his hydroponic set up to make sure he's got a supply to get him through the next few - for him, frustrating - weeks.

If the closing remark in that sentence doesn’t generate a few I don’t know what will.

	08-10-2003 19:00									#339
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Nice one Caligastia It’s a shame I cannot see the image you put up as the new replica shirt actually has a huge O2 sponsors logo in the middle. Being the RFU they have done various special shirts as well of course – may be one of those.

Must be. The lack of a dirty great sponsor's logo is my main reason for getting it. Here's a link so you can check it out:

http://www.worldrugbyshop.com/shop/...60&Department=6

	08-10-2003 19:20									#340
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I see what you mean - it looks a lot better sans the O2.

If it's the official RWC 03 shirt I wonder if the tournament has 'banned' shirt front logos - in which case perhaps there is a similar AB one?

	08-10-2003 19:51									#341
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quote: Originally posted by Havak I see what you mean - it looks a lot better sans the O2. If it's the official RWC 03 shirt I wonder if the tournament has 'banned' shirt front logos - in which case perhaps there is a similar AB one?

If you look at the other ones on the site, you'll notice that all the national team jerseys for the 2003 RWC are without huge logos on the front. The AB jersey has never had a massive logo on the front anyway. I already have an AB jersey though - the old style one made by Canterbury with the white collar.

	09-10-2003 04:18									#342
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All jersey sponsorship logos went out the window as part of the overall advertising signage clear out. Good thing too.

	09-10-2003 04:35									#343
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Did you notice how I only mentioned their age and gave a context of reference to current opponents only? I’ve been privileged in the build up to RWC to catch some highlights of Fitzy and I think the term ‘fierce competitor’ may have been made for him. As for that back row, nope sorry. One legend from that era plies his trade in Leicester and as good as he undoubtedly is (and was) he is simply not Neil Back. And he is still three years younger than Neil - head to head at respective peaks Neil takes it by a KO. And Richard Hill is one of the best blind sides ever (he must be - TV pundits keep telling me depsite my olnly thinking him a hard grafter). Zinny over Dally? Yep, you get that one without argument!

Prop - Olo Brown
Hooker - Sean Fitzpatrick (c)
Prop - Craig Dowd
Lock - Robin Brooke
Lock - Ian Jones
Flanker - Michael Jones
Flanker - Josh Kronfeld
No.8 - Zinzan Brooke

Sorry. Kronfeld and Back might, at their respective peaks, be on a par. Richard Hill one of the best blindsides ever? Someone's been at Tamerlin's hydroponic crop, methinks. J**** would obviously earn a spot in the above pack. His locking partner wouldn't. I'd back the above pack against your current pack. It also, obviously, goes without saying that I'd back their lineout against yours.

quote: If the closing remark in that sentence doesn’t generate a few I don’t know what will.

Mmmm. As every day passes without one of his s, I fear the size of the avalanche of them when he reappears.

	09-10-2003 06:48									#344
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quote: Originally posted by finbar All jersey sponsorship logos went out the window as part of the overall advertising signage clear out. Good thing too.

Is this just for the RWC or will it continue afterwards?

	09-10-2003 10:37									#345
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Just for the RWC. In order to satisfy the official sponsors of the World Cup, the IRB required that all ground ad signage - and jersey ad logos - be removed for the duration of the tournament so that the official sponsors wouldn't have any advertising competition.

This is what led to New Zealand losing the co-hosting role. The NZRFU, in its wisdom, refused to agree to remove the ad signage at their grounds. They decided, in their wisdom, that the ad revenue their clubs received from their signage was far more beneficial than the multi-millions the RWC would bring. They even went as far as to say that the NPC was more important to Kiwis than the RWC anyway.

Thus, as soon as the NZRFU lost the co-hosting gig, a broom was put through the NZRFU hierarchy and some people with brains were installed in place of the idiots. Just a bit too late, unfortunately.

On another, brighter note. I've just looked at the schedule for tomorrow, Saturday and Sunday. Tomorrow night, of course, I have Australia -v- Argentina to watch. On Saturday, I have NZ -v- Italy at 2pm, followed by France -v- Fiji at 7.30pm, followed by South Africa -v- Uruguay at 10pm. With highlights of Ireland -v- Romania on another channel at 9.30pm.

On Sunday, I have to make do with Scotland -v- Japan at 8.30pm, England -v- Georgia at 10pm, and the highlights of Wales -v- Canada at midnight.

You will, no doubt, understand why I've instructed Mrs finbar not to agree to any social engagements for the next month or so. Well, to be truthful, I told her she could, on her behalf, but that she should tell everyone I was unavailable on account of I'd died suddenly.

	09-10-2003 13:15									#346
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quote: All jersey sponsorship logos went out the window as part of the overall advertising signage clear out. Good thing too.

And yet sponsorship free shirts are seemingly not available in the UK through official channels. Not that this really surprises me in the slightest.

quote: Sorry. Kronfeld and Back might, at their respective peaks, be on a par.

Just proves the point that no one from the SH, including your good self, really knows the English players. As the only one here to have seen them play together (on more than one occasion) I’m backing my opinion on this – Backy by a clear head. Josh’s energy can be amazing, and he throws his body on the line in a way that will always endear him to Tigers fans – but sometimes it flatters to deceive.

And I think Ben Kay might surprise you. He hasn’t hit form this year (to the extent I’m surprised Clive still has him as first choice) but last year he was a certainty for a world XV. I’ve seen Jones (Wasps then Gloucester – great player) so he is the benchmark I’m using and Kay would push him for selection all the way. As for him and Chris Jack - they are actually very similar players...

As I say I admire certain qualities of Richard Hill. But just from curiousity who is the best blindside in the world – I would say it’s the French lad (Betsen)? You play two opensides - and I won’t even consider Thorn being suggested. If he wasn’t moved or injured so often I would say Moody had a shout there as well.

quote: I'd back the above pack against your current pack. It also, obviously, goes without saying that I'd back their lineout against yours.

Well there’s no accounting for perspective I guess. Suffice to say I totally disagree.

But then approaching a decade has passed and it’s always a little futile comparing eras – after all Willy John McBride could have knocked out that entire Kiwi pack on his own – or so rose tinted reminiscences tend to make us believe after a while? It is after all the pack that was knocked out by just one man (a hotel/restaurant chef apparently?)

Incidentally England are eating food prepared by the hotel chefs – I’m sure there’s something your witch doctor could do there Finbar?

Anyway lets forget this ‘England trail former Kiwi packs’ business and concentrate on real controversy – the seeding of Ireland above the hosts?

BOD says they were very lucky to get that – Woods says he is delighted as it gives the clash between you an extra edge on your part that he will relish. One thing is for sure your young hooker (Cannon is it now?) is in for a master class.

Should I attach a few above to compensate for our French friends absence?

The advertising blackout is not new as such – in 99 Welford Road staged the Italy-Tonga clash and the ground was ‘black bagged’ at a cost of Ł15K to hide all signs and sponsorship other than RWC approved. The shirts thing is good but don’t confuse the motives – it’s purely to maximise RWC revenue by guaranteeing sponsors exclusivity.

	09-10-2003 14:50									#347
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quote: Originally posted by Havak I suspect we would both be shocked if Tamerlin could dig out some Toulouse and French wages for us as France operates under very different salary constraints.

We French are educated people who don't discuss about such trivial and vulgar matters as wages. :disdain:

I would only say that though the raw salaries could be higher (I said could), the taxes are so high in our beloved country that the players could end up with much less money than in the British isles.

	09-10-2003 14:58									#348
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quote: Originally posted by finbar I think Tamerlin will confirm that M'sieur Marsh was, in fact, born M'sieur Marais, in Carcasonne, and only anglicised his name while holidaying in New Zealand.

You are only wrong about the birth location: Montferrand...

	09-10-2003 14:59									#349
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quote: Originally posted by Havak And yet sponsorship free shirts are seemingly not available in the UK through official channels. Not that this really surprises me in the slightest.

The mobile phone company obviously wouldn't allow it!

quote: Just proves the point that no one from the SH, including your good self, really knows the English players. As the only one here to have seen them play together (on more than one occasion) I’m backing my opinion on this – Backy by a clear head.

We're talking about them at their respective peaks! Which, as you note later on, is utterly pointless but I don't care! It's good for an argument !

quote: And I think Ben Kay might surprise you. He hasn’t hit form this year (to the extent I’m surprised Clive still has him as first choice) but last year he was a certainty for a world XV.

Promising player! But not yet up to either of those two AB locks of '96!

quote: As I say I admire certain qualities of Richard Hill. But just from curiousity who is the best blindside in the world –

Which side does Krige play?

quote: But then approaching a decade has passed and it’s always a little futile comparing eras –

quote: Incidentally England are eating food prepared by the hotel chefs – I’m sure there’s something your witch doctor could do there Finbar?

How can you make a chip buttie any more poisonous than it already is?

quote: Anyway lets forget this ‘England trail former Kiwi packs’ business and concentrate on real controversy – the seeding of Ireland above the hosts?

So the seedings are just as meaningless as the rankings.

quote: Should I attach a few above to compensate for our French friends absence?

No, I don't Tamerlin would appreciate having the p*ss taken.

quote: The shirts thing is good but don’t confuse the motives – it’s purely to maximise RWC revenue by guaranteeing sponsors exclusivity.

Yes, I know. I don't have a problem with it. If I were spending the money those sponsors are, I'd want the same thing.

BTW, Mr just popped up in that other thread started by Horse about my gardening trip to Canberra. He even posted a couple of s. Presumably for practice. He'd hate to turn up here out of practice.

	09-10-2003 15:01									#350
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quote: Originally posted by finbar There's also, of course, the possibility that Tamerlin's self-indulgent over-use of his s has somehow buggered the system.

	09-10-2003 15:02									#351
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin You are only wrong about the birth location: Montferrand...

Welcome back, Mr ! How are all the little s?

PS. Notice how Havak didn't flick through his French dictionary? So he didn't have to acknowledge my rather - if I do say so myself - inspired gag?

	09-10-2003 15:03									#352
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin

Look out! Mr 's back! Or, at least, his half-brother Mr is!

	09-10-2003 15:08									#353
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quote: Originally posted by Havak I see what you mean - it looks a lot better sans the O2.

In my not humble at all opinion, ads on national Rugby shirts are a shame, a tribute paid to the money grabbers that are striving to rule the world.

Really

	09-10-2003 15:17									#354
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quote: Originally posted by Havak It is after all the pack that was knocked out by just one man (a hotel/restaurant chef apparently?)

No need of a chef to knock you out when you consider that the Australians are eating non-organic chickens...

	09-10-2003 15:24									#355
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Great to see Tamerlin back and on form – there should be a :disdain: smilie there really should.

quote: the taxes are so high in our beloved country that the players could end up with much less money than in the British isles.

Income tax is reasonable here – but god help you if you want to actually spend some of your money – indirect taxes are ridiculous (are we the only country in the world that taxes petrol as a ‘luxury’?).

quote: The mobile phone company obviously wouldn't allow it!

Spot on Finbar – cash is king in English rugby.

quote: Which, as you note later on, is utterly pointless but I don't care!

I know you like a good argument – which is why I extended the point.

An additonal irony is both are damn good players so we are talking about tiny margins. I guess it’s possible McCaw would have ousted Josh by now – but I don’t think its certain by any means.

quote: Promising player! But not yet up to either of those two AB locks of '96!

I can’t be convinced of this easily – maybe in six weeks time he may have firmly convinced me himself - one way or the other.

quote: Which side does Krige play?

I’ve seen him play both – but he falls behind Hill for me. I see he is out of the opening game with cramps btw. And Straeuli has been quoted yet again as saying every bok side should be very Physical.

Perth is Foster’s territory isn’t it – that’s the ultimate way to make a Chip buttie lethal – add that muck to it.

quote: So the seedings are just as meaningless as the rankings.

The rankings are deeply meaningful – only the seedings are bizarre.

quote: He'd hate to turn up here out of practice.

God forbid it should ever be so…

Is there anything more frustrating for a writer than having the audience miss a carefully crafted gag totally by the way…?

Call the supplier - a truckful of is needed urgently!

	09-10-2003 15:24									#356
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quote: Originally posted by finbar No, I don't Tamerlin would appreciate having the p*ss taken.

The smilies have accumulated in the room as I was unable to post in this thread for a few days until I discovered I could access the thread if I used a different method as the usual one. The day to day check of the site remains painful without the mail notices and the impossibility to directly access the last pages of the threads.

	09-10-2003 15:24									#357
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Blimey, this forum has a lot of red spots on it. It looks like it’s been splattered with the blood of a pommy forward after getting his head stomped by Ali!

Anyway, Mitchell has laid his cards out on the table from day one hasn't he! And good on him I say. He's playing the strongest team that he can, with Williams and Mauger both missing out due to their injuries. The Italians must be crapping themselves - this the same team that put 50 points on the Aussies and the Saffees during the tri nations.

Mauger's groin injury looks like it will heal in time for the next match against Canada – thank goodness - the backline functions a lot much better with him in.

Big Brad Thorn starts the game at lock, in place of the injured Williams. Thorn getting more experience at test level can only be a good thing I guess.

Dan Carter gets the hot seat for this first game.

It’ll be interesting to see how Mitchell will use his subs. I’m kinda hoping he’ll flood them all on at once with 25 odd minutes to go - two fresh front rowers and two fresh loosies - that ought to lift the performance of the pack and hammer home the nails in hopefully a very big win!

	09-10-2003 15:29									#358
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I think we all realise poor Italy are in for a stuffing.

	09-10-2003 15:38									#359
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Great to see Tamerlin back and on form – there should be a :disdain: smilie there really should.

Thanks Havak, I won't let you alone against those SH barbarians (though Finbar, because of its education and northern origins - he could play for the well known Dutch Rugby Football Union nowadays - would rather qualify as a kind of Barbaro-Nordic...) and I agree there should be a "disdain" smilie.

quote: Income tax is reasonable here – but god help you if you want to actually spend some of your money – indirect taxes are ridiculous (are we the only country in the world that taxes petrol as a ‘luxury’?).

No you are not the only ones, oil is so heavily taxed in France that the "black gold" colloquialism certainly originated from here.

quote: Call the supplier - a truckful of is needed urgently!

I have already ordered a load of them, they are meant to be posted after each game played by the French team.

	09-10-2003 15:49									#360
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Your healthy sense of humour lightens the threads.

Would you agree with me that Betsen, on form, is the man in his position?