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Andydog
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London
Jan 2001
time: 05:30
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Three hours to get home tonight. We're just sitting there half way between Milton Keynes and London and the train driver announces "Ladies and Gentlemen, it's the usual bollocks, signal failures, bendy tracks, wrong kind of snow, take your pick. The truth is, we don't know how to run a railway. Thank you."
quote:
Originally posted by Havak
Your ‘season opener’ was also our first game post season, with a changed line up, against a damn good side on their own patch. I have consistently tried to ***** this bubble in the thread that our forwards played anything other than badly in that game. They are hugely unlikely to play so badly against you again. Your chances of getting so much ball are highly questionable to me. |
Mate there is no doubt your pack are formidable, the best in the world. All I'm saying is that ours aren't the walkovers that you and Tamerlin make them out to be. I watched England France those weeks ago and walked off with the feeling that Mealamu was more a more accurate lineout thrower than Thompson. I also think that our forwards will be quicker to the ball than yours if we play you in Sydney. Bring it on!!! 
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Five games. A destruction of Wales, two superb runs away from home in the tri-nations and two frankly not that hot games at home? Mixed messages in a way – very English of you if you will forgive me for saying it.  How far have they come – I find it hard to measure until you face us again to be honest. |
Well those two not than hot games at home were against Australia and South Africa, two sides who always lift their game tremendously when looking for revenge against the ABs. When I said the AB backs had come far since the start of the season, I was referring to the cohesion, vision, partnerships, timing etc. As good as Robinson and Cohen are, against us they ain't going to have the luxury of the gaps that the French gave them!
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You are clearly a very very good and promising side – England are a very good side too. We can beat you. I’m aware you can beat us too. |
Agreed!
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Dominated in the loose? Or overall? Hmm I watched that last game and I felt a known to be weak Aussie front row gave real problems to your boys. I’d like wider opinions I think. |
I think our forwards dominated in the loose play and overall for most of the game. The Aussies looked dangerous every now and then on the quick phases, but we defended well. Their front row were much better than they were the last time we humped them, and as I eluded to before, Aussies seem to thrive when they're the underdogs.
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I don’t under rate your pack – I don’t rate it as good as ours either. My opinion that - and if you like to see it as my problem then fine by me. |
And you're entitled to that opinion. I agree our forwards aren't as good as yours, but it irks me that everyone here seems to think that yours will "slaughter" ours, as Tamerlin puts it. They won't.
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I’m just as keen to see that as you – and I think you really need to be prepared that it may be you not I that gets hugely surprised. |
I am suitably prepared. I think your forwards will dominate ours in some areas, but not others. We need to stop you punching holes if we can, and we need to win and get that pill out quick smart. If we can do that, we have the cup.
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I’m not  at all by the way.
I accept that as sole Englishman I’m going to draw ire by gobbing off from my corner – do keep it coming. |
You're and Englishman alright! Thru and thru. Make sure that you visit Kiwiland one day (if you haven't already). Walk around the streets and see how many kids are chucking balls around. Go into a pub and start talking, then watch the kiwis flock to you and your accent whose bothered to fly all that way to visit them. You'll love it! 
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finbar
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Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Andydog
You don't think so? Mealamu, head down, legs pumping, regularly made strong yards for good set-ups; Chris Jack was an imposing presence as was McCaw. I thought the Wallaby forwards played much better following the 50-21 hiding the few weeks before. If I remember it was Gregan's erratic options and the lack of cohesion in your backline that let you down. Overall it wasn't a stunning performance by NZ, and we still have deficiencies in our pack I admit, but I still think they can give England a few surprises. |
Yes, I agree, your forwards had some good individual moments, but the combined effort was, I thought, um, disappointing. We had a makeshift front row - Panahoe starting for the first time in 18 months, replaced in the second half by rookie Al Baxter - and your lot should have shunted us off the park. Your lineouts were particularly, um, disappointing. All of which bothers me, because I don't think we can win the WRC, and I've backed you lot!
I have only one cause for hope. I know I keep banging on about the weather, but I'm sure it's going to play more of a part than anyone - on an official level - is prepared to admit. We seem not to be having a Spring, we seem to have plunged straight into summer. Midweek, here, it was 29C with a howling, hot north wind. It kept the humidity down, but it was still like a blast furnace. Brisbane has hardly had a day under 30C. The big men are really going to suffer. And the big, old men are going to suffer even more.
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finbar
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Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Andydog
Three hours to get home tonight. We're just sitting there half way between Milton Keynes and London and the train driver announces "Ladies and Gentlemen, it's the usual bollocks, signal failures, bendy tracks, wrong kind of snow, take your pick. The truth is, we don't know how to run a railway. Thank you." |
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Well those two not than hot games at home were against Australia and South Africa, two sides who always lift their game tremendously when looking for revenge against the ABs. |
Oh dear. Cue Havak to trot out his hoary old chestnut re everyone and his or her dog lifting their game against England. 
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I agree our forwards aren't as good as yours, but it irks me that everyone here seems to think that yours will "slaughter" ours, as Tamerlin puts it. |
Anyone here old enough to remember vinyl records? And how the needle occasionally stuck in a groove? Tamerlin, for some reason, takes me back to those glorious days.
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You're and Englishman alright! Thru and thru. Make sure that you visit Kiwiland one day (if you haven't already). Walk around the streets and see how many kids are chucking balls around. Go into a pub and start talking, then watch the kiwis flock to you and your accent whose bothered to fly all that way to visit them. You'll love it! |
Gee, Kiwis suffer the same cultural cringe Australians do.
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finbar
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Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:30
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quote:
Originally posted by LDiCesare
Couldn't read all the thread. I just noticed the big amount of , which probably means French posters were busy in the thread (or at least one of them ) |
Yep. I've bought shares in the French-based manufacturer of s.
And speaking of matters cultural, a couple of international cultural gems caught my eye this morning:
1. Starbucks - the appalling coffee franchise - is making a move into France. This must not be allowed. I expect Tamerlin - and LDiCesares, if he ever gets off his train - to lead the battle against Starbucks. At the very least, they should emulate that famous anti-GM farmer - Monsieur Bove - who isn't beyond spending a tad of time in prison in furthering his cause;
2. The World Conker Championships are soon to be staged in Northampton, England. Bound to be won by an Englishman, and, if the evidence of this thread is anything to go by, bound to produce a plethora of gloating
smilies
from Havak;
3. In New Zealand, and only in New Zealand could this happen, an administrative bungle has resulted in a woman discovering that her husband misled her about his income during the 50+ years of their marriage, claiming he could only afford to give her a meagre housekeeping allowance because he didn't earn very much. With her discovery that he earned a great deal more than he told her, relations between Mr and Mrs are now said to be frosty.
In the obvious absence of anything remotely resembling culture in Australia, I am unable to report anything vaguely resembling a local cultural gem.
Last edited by finbar on 27-09-2003 at 05:58
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Tamerlin
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Toulouse (South-western France)
Apr 2002
time: 06:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Andydog
Three hours to get home tonight. We're just sitting there half way between Milton Keynes and London and the train driver announces "Ladies and Gentlemen, it's the usual bollocks, signal failures, bendy tracks, wrong kind of snow, take your pick. The truth is, we don't know how to run a railway. Thank you." |
This is illustrating the obvious superiority of the private sector over the public sector.
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I also think that our forwards will be quicker to the ball than yours if we play you in Sydney. Bring it on!!! |
When you exempt a hooker of what was a major role as pusher in a scrum I hope for him he is able to run faster than those that are still affected to this task. This kind of Rugby is perhaps your cup of tea, and if it appeals to you like that it is all right, but it is certainly not mine.
When I am saying that your forwards will get "slaughtered" I am speaking about the scrums and mauls and this is at the same time a feeling and a wish as I would like the whole SH to be reminded that scrums are meant to be pushed and are a very important phase of the game, and that the game is not limited to running everywhere at the fastest speed.
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I think our forwards dominated in the loose play and overall for most of the game. |
Once again this is not a surprise, they don't have to push in scrums and are thus trained to run. As soon as the Aussies used mauls and tried (they were no longer used to it) to push the scrums your forwards struggled and commited mean fouls that should have been more heavily sanctionned.
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And you're entitled to that opinion. I agree our forwards aren't as good as yours, but it irks me that everyone here seems to think that yours will "slaughter" ours, as Tamerlin puts it. They won't. |
They wil be slaughtered...
They wil be slaughtered... They wil be slaughtered... They wil be slaughtered... They wil be slaughtered... They wil be slaughtered... They wil be slaughtered... They wil be slaughtered...
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I am suitably prepared. I think your forwards will dominate ours in some areas, but not others. |
True, this is exactly what I am saying in this post. 
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If we can do that, we have the cup. |
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LDiCesare
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La Ferté sous Jouarre France
Jan 2001
time: 05:30
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quote:
They wil be slaughtered...
They wil be slaughtered... They wil be slaughtered... They wil be slaughtered... They wil be slaughtered... They wil be slaughtered... They wil be slaughtered... They wil be slaughtered...
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A nice little bourrage de crâne in case he didn't get your point?
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Caligastia
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I was watching the Canterbury/Wellington Ranfurly Shield match and started to get bored about 15 minutes before the game was due to end because Wellington were playing like crap and were down 38-10. Suddenly, they exploded with a plethora of tries, and ended up drawing with Canterbury 38 all!
Definitely one of the most amazing comebacks I've ever seen. Pity it didn't win the the shield.
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Havak
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Swing Low, Sweet Chariots.
Aug 1999
time: 05:30
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quote:
“The truth is, we don't know how to run a railway. Thank you.” |
Now on this we can probably agree. I’d love them to be that honest. Public transport in the UK is absolutely awful. Don’t forget as your train was over twenty minutes late arriving you can claim half the fare back. Bet it will make you feel better?
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All I'm saying is that ours aren't the walkovers that you and Tamerlin make them out to be. |
Now don’t tell anyone this will you – but there’s an element of pure mischief in my doing that.
Perhaps if I’m clearer – when I talk in terms of your forwards not impressing me (beyond certain named individuals like McCaw and Jack) the frame of reference I have to use is our forwards. I’m not comparing them to Havaks over 35 Vets side. They are clearly all talented players – but the direct comparison is sometimes tough. Similarly your point about Thompson is fair – he couldn’t hit a barn door sometimes and that holds back how highly one can rate him as a hooker. He is a barnstorming player around the paddock however – very much in the mold you are rating Mealamu.
As for Sydney – well we have to get their first. But the age and fitness of our pack may surprise you. Flatman, Vickery, Thompson and Moody are all young guys…and only Thompson figured in NZ in June.
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As good as Robinson and Cohen are, against us they ain't going to have the luxury of the gaps that the French gave them! |
I never thought they would.
Both guys are super finishers never the less – you can’t let your guard down. And Lewsey is faster than either of them.
Our weakness remains the centres for me – Greenwood can be mercurial at times but Tindall is very one dimensional indeed. I have no doubt this is where the Abs would target us to stifle ball reaching the quick guys.
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it irks me that everyone here seems to think that yours will "slaughter" ours, as Tamerlin puts it. They won't. |
Tamerlin sometimes lets his passion run away with him.
Do I seriously expect to put the ABs away by fifty (my definition of slaughter) – of course not. I expect a closely contested and hopefully excellent game of rugby. I want England to be victorious of course – I’m not budging on that one!
The dynamic remains fascinating – pack versus backs, unpredicatable talent (Carlos) versus total reliability (Wilko)…really hope it comes down to the final we might be expecting.
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We need to stop you punching holes if we can, and we need to win and get that pill out quick smart. |
The former is a challenge – the latter is perhaps the most interesting point of all as the old master (Backy) fights with the young buck (McCaw). I like McCaw – he has the best points of a combined Backy and Moody. But then Moodys job will be to clear McCaw out…again it’s something to really look forward to.
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Go into a pub and start talking, then watch the kiwis flock to you and your accent whose bothered to fly all that way to visit them. You'll love it! |
It’s on my list for sure – Lions 2005 was a possibility until it was pointed out to me it’s in your winter, your winters are apparently not nice, and that the country didn’t have a very big ‘pub per head of pop’ ratio and may not be best geared for 20000 brits on the lamb at one go. Have I been misinformed?
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And the big, old men are going to suffer even more. |
Half the pack will be mid twenties hopefully – and Jonno is beyond mere mortal concerns like fatigue surely?
And maybe it is time for that hoary old chestnut too…
Interesting to see Caligastia reporting that huge comeback. I have one to relate myself. At 40 minutes on Friday night Tigers were trailing Newcastle 18-3 and I was not a happy man at all. We managed to scrape a scrappy try via the Italian lad pez and went in at 18-10 – but without me having much hope as the Falcons had done us up front and exposed the fan defence badly on several occasions. Imagine my surpise then that in the fsecond half we scored 15 points before any reply from them and the game ended up 28-21 to Tigers as late penalties were traded.
The key to it? We scored a pushover try shortly after the break (so were still behind at that point) and Mark Andrews totally lost his discipline and got himself rapidly carded. He was quickly followed by another of their players as their team discipline went out the window (followed by various rattles). It was truly bizarre – but quite good fun in way as Rob Andrew was visibly furious!
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finbar
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Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:30
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Phew. Gloucester finally won a game, too. Although I might have to transfer my allegiance to a certain other club as soon as a certain feisty ex-Waratah fly half gets there. 
Oh, and for Havak's benefit, in addition to the forthcoming World Conker Champsionships in Northampton, bound to be won by a Pom, the World Black Pudding Throwing Championship has just been staged in Manchester. Won, of course, by a Pom, against competition from Turkey, Australia, New Zealand and Mongolia. So, Havak, just to save you the time and trouble:
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All times are GMT. The time now is 05:30.
Apolyton Time is 00:30. |
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26-09-2003 21:03
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