18-07-2004 02:16									#361
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I would say that they are headed to their Harbor Cities, to get upgraded as soon as they get Astro and then Send them off after they get Nav.

That, IMHO, would be Panama, as it;s closest to the section of CFC that is currently not Settled. I would send something similar to what we are doing, Muskets, Ansar & atleast 1 settler. Build a Beachhead city, land additional Units and see what happens. They would likely be taking on just CFC, but If I was them, I would also look at sending some boats over to the Poly side, maybe with GCA Units, too.

There are other things that they could do, but that is one very likely senario...

E_T

	18-07-2004 02:26									#362
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But that won't be for a long time, right?

	18-07-2004 02:44									#363
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Currently they need Edu, then Astro to get to Caravels, and then they'd still need to research Nav.

If we succeed in taking out their FP, their research should be pretty crippled until they can get it back up. I don't remember the figure Trip has from a sim, but their FP is a big part of their economy, and army maintenance takes a bite out of what they get from their original palace core.

	18-07-2004 05:02									#364
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We need to let micoffl know that we'd definately prefer to let GTW suffer through the WW rather than a measly 200 gold loss.

As far as the "Navy" being busy elsewhere...it's just likely that GWT does not really have that much of a Navy but they want to give CGN (and thus APO) the idea that it can/will go after CGN in order to deny the next age free tech to APO. In other words; it's a bluff of sorts in order to get CGN (and thus APO) to agree to their peace terms.

What I do find interesting is that GWT was thinking of offering tech to CGN but that it knows that CGN is behind them. I hope that GWT thinks we are just about even with them.

Does GWT have Monarchy? If they do, did they have it before us? That would tip them off (if they had it before us) that we were going to either plan for an extremely long war or the Hanging Gardens.

I also have mixed feelings about GWT being able to reach that Knight near Washington. I'm a little miffed that micoffl told them about the "cargo." GWT did not know it was there; though they may have guessed at it. GCA plays after GWT so only after GCA had played the turn could GWT have known about the "cargo." GCA would have been left to possibly deal with the Knight on their own for at least one turn; with CGN forcing GCA to either attack the Knight or risk the Knight attacking the next turn; either of which allows the war to continue for another 5 turns. Now that GWT knows that is is there, they may decide to kill it once CGN denies them peace and therefore denying WW to GCA for much longer.

	18-07-2004 06:35									#365
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Both GWT & GCA DON'T have Education NOR Monarchy. And no one still has Chemistry, Although I think that They are planning to go that route, soon.

Oh, Just to let you know, the Only GCA city that has Saltpeter is Washington AND GWT has cut their Iron, Again....

I agree that Micco shot off his mouth, about the "Cargo".

quote: [12:14] [miccofl> did you see the link I posted earlier? [12:14] [E_T[APO]> checking it out now [12:17] [E_T[APO]> hehe, 200 gold, they would make more than that in raw trade, without the WW [12:18] [E_T[APO]> Trip figures that they are likely having to run at 40% lux right now [12:18] [miccofl> Well, I had to listen - it's not like they are Lucky [12:19] [E_T[APO]> but the loss at 40% is much more than 5GPT and the additional sums over time [12:20] [miccofl> leads me to believe they are a bit cash-poor [12:20] [E_T[APO]> it would allow them to race up the Tech Tree and get to Nav much faster [12:21] [miccofl> didn't seem to sit well when I said we still out-tech them [12:21] [E_T[APO]> we took an Awful risk, as it was, including CFC in this and giving them the 3 techs, before GWT had them [12:22] [E_T[APO]> atually, as it stands, they are the trade leader [12:22] [E_T[APO]> they can easilly come up from behind and pass us [12:23] [miccofl> so how long before you attack? [12:23] [E_T[APO]> the only thing that we have over them, is our larger number of libraries and Markets [12:23] [E_T[APO]> but they have the numbers advantage [12:24] [E_T[APO]> we will hopefully be landing in 2 turns [12:24] [E_T[APO]> that is, if the spot is clear.... [12:27] [E_T[APO]> You know, you gave Bongo Info while they were still playing their turn [12:27] [E_T[APO]> they might have not know that you had landed units, until AFTER they had played and GCA had let them know about it [12:28] [miccofl> they knew the galley was gone [12:28] [E_T[APO]> weren't you in the Military?? [12:28] [miccofl> yes [12:28] [E_T[APO]> Don;t you remember OpSec?? [12:28] [miccofl> I didn't give them anything critical and was really testing to see if they were acting in good faith [12:29] [miccofl> when they return for their answer I intend to ask if they left the knight alone, if they did not I will refuse their peace offer on those grouds alone [12:29] [E_T[APO]> yes, they knew the galley was gone, they didn;t know that you had landed a unit or that your sinking their galley was the result of making that landing [12:30] [miccofl> I have the photo documentation needed to refuse them both peace for another 5 turns regardless of the knight suriving until then [12:31] [miccofl> us landing on the saltpeter blocked GCA's use of it and as such is an attack [12:31] [E_T[APO]> still, any info that you give them, without them going out and finding the info, gives them more to work off of [12:32] [E_T[APO]> so, they might nave not dispatched a Ansar against your Knight, if they hadn't known [12:32] [miccofl> might have sent it up north instead [12:32] [miccofl> might take two or 3 to kill it too [12:33] [E_T[APO]> on the other hand, if that knight is still there, and GCA wasn;t able to Reinforce and all that IS in the City IS 1 Reg Pike, you have a really good chance of retaking it [12:33] [E_T[APO]> which would make more of a difference, with the war [12:33] [miccofl> I did ask them to leave it alone - I want to see how they act on that [12:34] [E_T[APO]> as GWT will likely not want to continue it [12:35] [E_T[APO]> Oh, did you see the Worker, getting the road up to you?? [12:35] [miccofl> yep [12:35] [E_T[APO]> He's a BigFurryWorker that will have the road built in no time... [12:36] [miccofl> our Anarchy is done next turn [12:37] [E_T[APO]> should, sometimes you don;t know [12:37] [E_T[APO]> just go back into Republic, please [12:38] [E_T[APO]> I've figured, that between the 3 different Govs: Des, Mon & Rep, that Rep would be best for what we have in mined [12:38] [miccofl> too bad Facism isn't an option yet, I could use that as an argument to continue war for the purpose of inflicting WW as that is the purpose of that government type [12:39] [E_T[APO]> Feudalism [12:39] [E_T[APO]> that one kicks, somewhat [12:40] [E_T[APO]> but that's C3C [12:40] [miccofl> yep [12:40] [E_T[APO]> and I like the Limited unit support in Republic, too

E_T

	18-07-2004 15:32									#366
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Fascism is C3C only also, IIRC.

	20-07-2004 18:28									#367
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Snipped from the recent chat log posted in the correspondence thread:

quote: Bongo> We might want to argue a bit over that point, as poly never had to endure those 5 turns [07:18:16:46] miccofl> my understanding is they did, but unfortunately all those threads are gone [07:18:16:46] miccofl> no way to verify one way or the other [07:18:16:47] miccofl> what they do remember is all the flap associated with it [07:18:16:47] Bongo> The way I understand it, mongoose more or less said the 5 turns was gone already and then told GCA to accept it [07:18:16:48] Bongo> There had been more then 5 turns of non-action, but less than 5 after mongoose made his ruling [07:18:16:48] miccofl> so then in order to verify that they did go the 5 turns we would have to get a hold of mongoose and that is not currently possible [07:18:16:49] Bongo> There are other way of course, poly would know, their archives are likely ok

We could easily contact Bongo and give him a play-by-play of what happened at the end of our war with GCA.

Furthermore, while it's all well and good that CGN killed that galley and landed a sacrificial knight, the fact is they are doing EXACTLY what GCA did to us: dragging out the war for no other reason than spite, with the primary weapon being war weariness, not actual battle. Read the whole chat log. Micco makes it crystal clear that his team will do anything to spite Lucky, just 'cause they don't like him (hey, I hate the guy, but this is ridiculous). They've become just like him.

And that, my teamates, is bullshit. We cannot let it stand. They need to make peace in 760 (that was the date we discussed at the UN, right?), or we need to snuff them, for the good of the game. At the very least, peace should come 5 turns from this one - which doesn't conform to the compromise at the UN and will result in Lucky going apeshit, of course.

I personally feel that we need to send CGN a note, informing them that what they are doing is the opposite of helpful and furthermore is unsportsmanlike (translation: GCA-like). We ask them to make peace in 4 turns and if they refuse, I say we inform them that it's peace or death. If they choose death, so be it.

-Arrian

	20-07-2004 21:17									#368
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IF you read the whole thing, if GWT hadn;t had attacked that knight, it would have been 4 more turns (less IIRC) for GWT and 5 turns for GCA (who knows, that might have been the only unil in that city AND they could have won that engagement and retaken the city - a slightly less than 1/3rd chance to do it). But as it is, he will be doing peace with GCA in 4 turns and 5 turns with GWT.

E_T

	20-07-2004 22:53									#369
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I agree with the 4 and then 5 turns wait to offer peace to GCA and GWT respectively.

	20-07-2004 22:55									#370
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Whoops, I posted this in the GCA thread on accident. I meant to post this here:

Hmm, based on the latest info from Mongoose and his contempt for the game and the fact that the game could quite possibly held up again:

I believe we should discuss options to sack Remembrance in 5 turns. I'm sorry, but I've had it with Miccofl and CGN almost as much as I've had it with Lucky.

At least with 1 less cry baby in the game, it will go much faster.

	20-07-2004 23:03									#371
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Well, miccofl said he would do exactly as the game admin said to do. miccofl's interpetation of the rules is what is causing/allowing him to do what is being done now in regards to giving peace. GWT understands and agrees that 5 tunrs from the last turn is accepatable, especially seeing that they attacked CGN. CGN sees it that since they entered into GCA territroy and were going to attack (intent) that that qualifies for continued war action.

BTW, I've found out that in a PBEM, if you have a peace deal, which lasts 20 turns no matter what you do, and you want to declare war on that Civ before the 20 turns are up you will cause the game to crash in nearly every case.

If we held a team vote on the matter and then asked miccofl to do that, I'm sure he would. It's as simple as that.

	20-07-2004 23:04									#372
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If we discuss CGN being sacked, we need to discuss the same of GCA.

	20-07-2004 23:06									#373
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We can discuss it, but it's not so easy to accomplish it.

	20-07-2004 23:57									#374
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We should hold a poll here and if a majority approves tell miccofl that if he doesn't make peace we're wiping him out, period.

	21-07-2004 05:40									#375
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quote: Originally posted by civman2000 We should hold a poll here and if a majority approves tell miccofl that if he doesn't make peace we're wiping him out, period.

I don't think that wording would be needed at all. If we want CGN to give peace to a team we simply say: "Apolyton would prefer that CGN gave peace to _______ by turn ______."

I have no doubts that he would follow our request without the threat of "wiping" him out. Heck, their team had wanted to die with the last city falling over there. They only stay around so as to be a benefit to us. The ability to be a thorn to Lucky et al is just a bonus in their eyes. If we went at them threatening tham as suggested they would just quit the game by retiring or something simular. Remeber, they can help us in the future; much the same as GCA is helping GWT. We need them, they do not need us.

	24-07-2004 05:36									#376
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In chat, E_T brought up the idea of asking CGN to give CFC members permission to access the CGN embassy, so that we can have one big alliance embassy forum.

I think this sounds like a good way to have quick communication between all three teams. But it would give CFC access to previous posts there and we'd lose the forum as a means of communication with CGN only. I suppose we might also want to just see if Miccofl will open a new forum for all three teams if we don't want to use the old one.

Thoughts? Is there anything potentially damaging to our CFC relations in the embassy forum?

	24-07-2004 05:55									#377
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Ill go and check the forum but I dont think there is anything there that CFC could not know.

And Ill discuss with micco tonight in chat.

This could be the ticket to getting some communication flow.

Someone brought up this idea before. At least that we should have the same deal with CFC that we have with CGN.

	24-07-2004 06:32									#378
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Great idea Kloreep!

Make it so number one...

	24-07-2004 08:11									#379
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quote: Originally posted by BigFree Great idea Kloreep! Make it so number one...

Idling in the CGN chat room as we speak Captain.

I dont know how much longer I can hold her together though

	24-07-2004 08:40									#380
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quote: Originally posted by BigFree Great idea Kloreep!

Thanks, but...

quote: Originally posted by Kloreep In chat, E_T brought up the idea of asking CGN to give CFC members permission to access the CGN embassy, so that we can have one big alliance embassy forum.

	25-07-2004 01:52									#381
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The three-way alliance embassy forum has been set up. It's located here. Anyone who already has access to the Poly-CGN embassy will also have access to this forum.

	20-08-2004 01:18									#382
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This was posted by miccofl at the alliance embassy, it was a reply to a question from Donovan_Zoi from CFC:

quote: quote: Originally Posted by Donovan Zoi Micofl, do you know where the tech race stands for all teams right now? I need a major briefing. In a nutshell, no - not a clue; I'm not even sure what the alliance teams are researching much less the ones we are at war with. We haven't seen a tech trade since GP.

I think we should do a little damage control here and let our partners know whats up tech wise.

Where we stand relative to GWT and why CGN hasn't gotten all our techs.

Who can summarize this for me??????

	20-08-2004 22:40									#383
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I know that our original policy was to not give any tech to our allies until GWT had it, so as to keep their research costs as high as possible.

Should we reevaluate that policy?

Has it had a signifigant effect on GWT? It certainly seems to me that they're doing 40 turn research with GCA and sharing techs, so the actual cost of the techs being researched is irrelevant.

I'll make a poll about this.

--Togas

	20-08-2004 22:50									#384
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The other thing I need is a general lowdown on where we stand tech wise, and what we are doing with CFC.

I know about them jointly funding research. I just need to know what we have that we have not given them (CFC) and why.

I can explain about withholding techs, and I can also say we may reevaluate that BUT so far it has kept us in the lead which is gonna be critical for our preps ICO of them trying to invade us. (ie: the longer they teake to research Navigation for instance the longer we have to build up before an invasion is possible.

	25-08-2004 09:08									#385
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I started a thread over at the Alliance forum to coordinate domestic stuff with CGN.

I told them we can give them Cyrene in 2 and Mauretania in 4. (These are when they grow. Cyrene is also completing another catapult the same turn it grows, so it won't have to spend any time on wealth; Mauretania has 4 more turns on wealth.)

	29-09-2004 23:28									#386
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Have we given CGN Education yet????

If not we need to do it next turn.

	29-09-2004 23:31									#387
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Yes, I sent it to them this turn. Sorry for not metioning it. I plan on giving them those two cities near them when the Catapult in Cyrene is finished in 5 turns.

	30-09-2004 00:05									#388
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Roger that, Thanks

	30-09-2004 00:13									#389
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BTW that brought up another question:

Are we going to continue to have CGN to our NE if CFC agrees to give up the area around our silk colony?

Is the plan to have CGN in both areas?

Thanks

	30-09-2004 00:16									#390
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The plan is, AFAIK (and understand) is that it is more efficient to give CGN the jungle silks area, since the CFC FP is going to the est of their capital.


BTW, can some one tell me how to get into the alliance forums, and who to contact about access?