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Adrian Hon
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Living in Perplex City
Nov 2001
time: 05:31
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Can you provide us with an overview of CGN's military? They have a greater MFG than us, surely they must have been producing a reasonable number of units lately. While it's obvious that GWT will ultimately prevail, what I would like to know is how long this will take and how difficult it will be. I recall seeing a fairly decent number of defenders in Perris and another stack elsewhere - those must be wearing down *some* of GWT's attack force. For example, a couple of fortified musketeers in a large city must be a tough nut to crack with just Ansars.
On a broader note, do we have any good predictions about how the battle will go - how long it will realistically take for GWT to subdue CGN, and how many units they will lose in the process? This would be useful in working out a timeframe in which GWT might be expected to attack us.
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E_T
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Orlando, Florida
Mar 2001
time: 00:31
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Chat log with full specifics are located here.
Cleaned this up for easier reading. This is what Miccofl had posted over in CGN's Private Forum
quote:
Back when this thing started, we all had this grand vision of our civilization rising to power and dominating the world. We had our government, with its elected officials, selected by the people to do their jobs and further our aims and goals. And we had aims and goals; our ministers put forth plans and the chief executive implemented them. Then the first minister dropped out, replaced by someone who was really not up to the task.
Then we lost another minister, and another – some were replaced but the MoD was not, and we were at war. Our only recourse it seemed was to rely on democracy to prevail. As you all can see, this has failed us miserably and I must accept full responsibility for that, as I allowed it to happen. What we have is anarchy on the battlefield. Every turn the plan changes, every group that participates in chat changes the plan.
Don’t get me wrong, everyone’s participation in this is welcomed and appreciated, but when the very democracy we are trying to protect is killing us by its very nature, we have a problem.
There is only one copy of the Netatolian constitution. It is inside my head and I just flicked my bic underneath it (for a visual see Furloaf’s avatar.) We need a dictatorship, or at least a monarch to rule and direct. One plan, to be implemented by one man to save our asses (or at least kill as many of them as possible before we all die.)
I therefore move for the immediate dissolution of the Neatolian government. All positions are vacant and only one is available. All pending agreements with other civilizations will be honored (this is administrative – our honor above all.)
This poll will have 7 choices, you may vote for only one.
- Choice 1: Everything stays as it is, stop the constitution from burning.
- Choice 2: Declare shadowlord3 Emperor and give him absolute authority in all matters, he may appoint whatever staff he feels necessary to do the job, but his plan is the plan.
- Choice 3: Declare muk14 Emperor and give him absolute authority in all matters, he may appoint whatever staff he feels necessary to do the job, but his plan is the plan.
- Choice 4: Declare Furloaf Emperor and give him absolute authority in all matters, he may appoint whatever staff he feels necessary to do the job, but his plan is the plan.
- Choice 5: Declare brian_the_bold Emperor and give him absolute authority in all matters, he may appoint whatever staff he feels necessary to do the job, but his plan is the plan.
- Choice 6: Declare miccofl Emperor and give him absolute authority in all matters, he may appoint whatever staff he feels necessary to do the job, but his plan is the plan.
- Choice 7: Abandon the game (you can vote for this but it’s not happening.)
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E_T
Last edited by E_T on 12-04-2004 at 09:40
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E_T
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Orlando, Florida
Mar 2001
time: 00:31
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This is their first experiance with a "Democracy Game". We have had several, in several different Forums, for several different games. Shoot, I'm almost thinking that they have never played any succession games, which is a form of Demo game, without the debate, but with leadership changes and different styles played over time.
We have learned from a lot of mistakes in all of our Demo game experiances, even though we are still learning, and in some games, like the MZO C3C Demo Game, trying whole new approaches to how to play the game. We aren't perfect, but we have the background to make this (or any system) work.
We even try (and succeed at times) to have fun doing this. We work at making this system work and it does.
E_T
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E_T
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Orlando, Florida
Mar 2001
time: 00:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Trip
And that's what they need right now more than anything else... a single path that is planned out. It doesn't really matter how it's done. |
Our AltSP 1 & 2 comes to mind for us. That is our main plan, our outline, if you will, to how we go about getting our nation built up and running. This has been debated, refined, ratified and followed, as best as possible. You set attainable goals, you decide how your going to go about doing it and then, all you have to do is do it as efficiently as possible.
But then, when you don't know how to run a demo game, getting to the point of realizing that something like this is a nessesity, then your not going to have a unified front when things don't go the way that they are supposed to.
E_T
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Arnelos
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of the Free World
Sep 2002
time: 00:31
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quote:
Originally posted by notyoueither
We were wise enough to equip ourselves with the dictatorship, watered down by numbers, from the onset. Of course it suits the Consuls and the people to be democratic with most issues and when times are tranquil, but make no mistake, the Consuls are those who decide our fate from turn to turn when issues are in the balance. |
Concisely stated, a republic.
A republic, by its vary nature, is the delegation of authority by the populace to a government capable of making decisions on its behalf without necessarily resorting to direct consultation on such matters.
In a republic, the government makes decisions, at times even in contravention to the wishes of the public. However, the point is that the government is in the service of the public and not the other way around. If that is ever lost, the government ceases to be a republic. In addition, many republics are indeed democratic republics, in which the people have control over WHO is making decisions for them and are consulted over decisions or even given control over certain decisions.
What CGN needs is not an outright tyranny, such as miccofl proposes, but a republic. Perhaps a rather authoritarian republic, but still a republic. Give the leadership the power to direct the war and evactuation as is needed without being strung down by tons of insipid referenda, but keep the government accountable to the populace by creating something akin to our "Change of Command" motion, along with regularly scheduled elections.
Yes, CGN needs the clarity that will come from strong centralized leadership, but that leadership also needs to be kept accountable. Otherwise, we're going to end up allied with a team that shrinks to 1-3 members by the time they make it to our continent, assuming that the 1-3 people left don't decide simply to fall on their swords rather than to waste their time helping Apolyton to win the game in the long run.
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Aidun
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The Hague, the capital of the civilized world
Nov 2002
time: 06:31
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I have been thinking of this before I became inactive in this forum.
Republic is in itself not per definition a good type of government.
Most important thst the government is capable for managing those things that they are supposed to manage. If this condition is not met, for the country the result is dissastrous, like the example of CGN shows.
Directly followed by capability is legitimacy: the government MUST, by those who are subject to it, be considered legitimate. If this is not the case, two things can happen: (1) If the subjects are not nessecarily subject to the government, but by their own choice, they may simply walk away: the membership drops; or (2) They revolt if they are nessecarily subject to the government, which is true for (national) states.
There are more conditions for a good government, but these two are the ones that matter here.
In our case Republic is the best type of government: the government is capable and considered legitimate. Before I went lurking in this forum, I for instance, did not consider the government entirely legitimate, which provided for me a problem. In societies where it is believed that the local chieftain decends from the gods, republic will be considered totally illegitimate, while despotism will be considered legitimate.
Republic is thus not the only legitimate government type, but the legitimacy of a government is subject to societal factors such as whether the society is at war or peace with other societies, what role religion plays, etc, etc. In ancient Rome for intance republic was the legitimate government type. During war, it lost it's legitimacy to dictatorship, because the efficiency of the later was higher than that of the first. During peace, however, dictatorship was shunned: Julius Ceasar was killed because he stayed on as dictator even though the war that caused him to become dictator was over.
In the case of CGN they have to determine what they desire: the strong most authoritarian, efficient, leadership or less efficient: (but not nessecarily worse leadership) more monarchial, republican or even democratic leadership. The legitimacy of the government is partly subject to the need of the people subject to the government.
Our expeniences have but learned that something between monarchical (not confuse with despotical or tyrranical) leadership with strongly centralized power, but with a little decentralization to ministers and advisors and with a goal of consensus and Democratic Republic with many elected officials with executive power that is not dependent on majority support are the most stable and effective types of government.
For CGN I think that the the monarchial kind of leadership would be best, but it's up foir them to decide.
Aidun
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08-04-2004 04:47
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