17-04-2004 13:32									#331
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Their slowmovers are already there. Along with 25+ Ansar.

	17-04-2004 13:34									#332
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That did not show in the last screenshot....

Where are you getting your info?

	17-04-2004 13:44									#333
	Remove this text

They're on the hill north of the lake. 25 Ansar, 8 Pikes, 15 Catapults, ~5 MIs and a Settler. That's why miccofl abandoned Sevenoaks.

	14-06-2004 21:40									#334
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What is the latest with CGN?

They accepted the city on the NE pennisula. Are they going to stick it out or what?

Im back by the way and Ill try and get CGN into some kind of productive chat.

Is that what GCA was doing the taunt about? CGN accepting the city on our NE pennisula??????

I just need a quick and dirty summary of where we stand with CGN right now. Then Ill chat them up.

	14-06-2004 23:39									#335
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Yes, GCA sent them a fruit basket image congratulating them on "hypocrisy" for protesting GCA's survival but then fleeing their continent by city gifting as well.

Miccofl was talking about them giving up, but it looks like they're going to stick it out now. Probably just a response to the fruit basket thing...

	14-06-2004 23:59									#336
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Lucky gets my vote for a$$hole of the century award.

Thanks for the update, Ill chat up miccofl this week.

	28-06-2004 21:34									#337
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See the latest correspondance from CGN here.

On the WW issue: If Lucky is correct, they do need to send peace. But I suggest we stay out of this issue and leave it to CGN and GCA to hash out. If CGN won't budge and GCA has a problem with that, then Lucky can complain to mongoose and see how he likes trying to force a team to give peace. If CGN does send peace, GCA shouldn't have any further problem. I don't think we should get involved either way.

On the galleys: Damn, I missed this log of BF's chat with miccofl. I was chatting with BF at the time and initially told him we could send Nav before E_T pointed out doing so would cheapen the cost for GWT; I didn't realize BF didn't mention we would likely not be giving them Nav due to that issue after that. And thinking about the value of a few empty galleys now vs. easier research for GWT later, I don't think we should give it to them. We do need to talk with Miccofl about that issue.

	28-06-2004 22:41									#338
	Got spare money?

If think CGN's response of silence will do just nicely And if they get hasseled, they can just point out that GWT clearly still thinks the war is on, and they won't accept peace until it is from both of them

	30-06-2004 21:31									#339
	Put an end to popups!

I was planning to hand off Mauritania and Cyrene to CGN sooner, but they had the [sarcastic mode] infinate wisdom to go into Anarchy. [/mode] So, I'm delaying that until turn 194 (765 AD).

Cyrene will finish up it's Cat and will grow at that time (size limit until a Harbor is built AND/OR the desert is RR'ed. Mauritainia will be just about to grow and unless I spend a lot of shortrush money to build a Unit, I'll just keep it at Wealth until the had off. I'm sending BigFurryWorker and the Grumpy Group up there to get things set up, infrastructure wise.

The 97 of the 137 of the funds that they had sent us, previously will be used for the moment for some of my shortrushes, while they are in Anarchy

I STRONGLY suggest that they go back into Republic OR barring that, that we send them Monarchy and they can go into it.

I also STRONGLY suggest that they send those 3 galleys, with the workers on them, up there. The workers will be added to cities and that galleys can be upgraded to Gallions for the later Invasion. They can also be used for Picket duty (freeing up some picket territory from us).

As for the one Galley that they still have, with the 1 knight on it, I'm not certain, but they need to make sure that they don;t do something STUPID with it (like that won't happen,,,,,, ). We need to get Aggie (and other MoW team members) set up into their Embassy forum and he can maybe plan some things.

note to Con or any other FAM person, if you send this to CGN, PLEASE edit out the deragatory things

I'll be working to get them some info as to what to build when and where, including any shortrushes at the approprate times. We will need to send them that 97 gold back and likely more, for when we get the upgrades.

We will have their Capitol connected to our Trade network in 5 turns time (after this next turn) and other worker items done soon.

We will need to get an Embassy (currently 26 Gold) with them and a RoP, in a few turns, as I need the workers to have free movement. But that isn;t required just yet.

I'll post more when I think of it.

MoI E_T

	02-07-2004 07:44									#340
	Put an end to popups!

Sounds like a good plan, if CGN doesn't use its' infinite wisdom, as you said

	10-07-2004 05:26									#341
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Was this ever communicated to CGN?

I see no record of it in the FAM thread.

If not I can start working on this.

I would like the counsels to take a quick look, and Togas as well. For sanitization purposes , then give me the go ahead to get this to CGN.

	14-07-2004 05:05									#342
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OK guys especially consuls, any comments on this??????

	14-07-2004 10:44									#343
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Con, it would seem that Togas is no longer having anything to do with this game. Looks like your the FAM now.....

E_T

	14-07-2004 11:04									#344
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The FAM is not as important as it was before, so having only one or two members in the FAM department is fine.

	14-07-2004 23:30									#345
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Message from CGN:

quote: Now somebody tell Lucky to shut the hell up.

	14-07-2004 23:31									#346
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DP!

	14-07-2004 23:34									#347
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It looks as if CGN attacked and killed a GWT Galley!

We'll have to see if any Ansar come to the rescue or not...

	14-07-2004 23:41									#348
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roflmao

	14-07-2004 23:56									#349
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Now THAT'S classic!

	15-07-2004 00:02									#350
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Man, can't we post this at the UN?

	15-07-2004 00:04									#351
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and now CGN has the excuse that they weren't communicating because they didn't want to reveal their military plans, which makes sense. "we don't want to make peace this turn because we can attack you once the save rolls back around, thanks "



one thing we must be weary of at this point is a snafu involving this and our landing. We can't have a replay of a turn once we've landed, thats for sure, so CGN must agree to peace 5 turns from next turn.

	15-07-2004 00:43									#352
	Remove this text

I still support peace in 4 turns, as proposed at the UN. For two basic reasons:

1) Whatever CGN can do to GCA/GWT militarily is trivial at this point (because they stupidly abandoned their capital)

2) Past precedent (GCA/APO). Similar enough, IMO. Let's be consistent.

IMO, CGN should post the screenie of the battle in the UN thread, with a quote from Lucky suggesting they were lying about being able to fight, and THEN STILL AGREE TO MAKE PEACE IN FOUR TURNS.

Because the fact remains that a galley or two and a couple of knights (or one, in this case) isn't going to do diddly squat.

-Arrian

	15-07-2004 03:07									#353
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian I still support peace in 4 turns, as proposed at the UN. For two basic reasons: 1) Whatever CGN can do to GCA/GWT militarily is trivial at this point (because they stupidly abandoned their capital) 2) Past precedent (GCA/APO). Similar enough, IMO. Let's be consistent. IMO, CGN should post the screenie of the battle in the UN thread, with a quote from Lucky suggesting they were lying about being able to fight, and THEN STILL AGREE TO MAKE PEACE IN FOUR TURNS. Because the fact remains that a galley or two and a couple of knights (or one, in this case) isn't going to do diddly squat. -Arrian

Agreed. As annoying as Lucky's been, CGN has been at least as much if not more uncooperative.

	15-07-2004 06:29									#354
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I say 5 turns "after" the last combat in which CGN was involved in provided that no further combat can take place.

CGN did not plan to delay giving peace to either GCA or GWT by putting units on Galley's just to simply give thoses two teams more WW. They did it because they knew that if they left those units in the Capital they would have simply died. Yes, they would have inflicted some damage against GWT in the insuing assault, but they felt that they might be able to get the "last laugh" so to speak if they were to make a landing near an empty or underdefended city and cause either GCA or GWT to lose a city it had previously taken. I know that most of you do not consider that having only one Knight does not constitute the "ability to wage war"; but let me remind you that it only takes one unit to take such a previously described city. And, how does CGN not know that GWT or GCA would present such a target? The situation bewtween GCA and APO some time ago does not mimick this situation. It's too bad that mongoose never responded and did not make a ruling in this case. each case should be looked at for it's merits. You just don't blindly say that each situation should be handled exaclty like the last unless they are exactly the same. I believe in being fair. And in this case, with CGN attacking a GWT Galley (and winning ), and then presenting a possible attack of a GCA city on the next turn certainly shows how APO's situation was and is different with GCA.

I think CGN is justified in it's latest actions and that they do not owe any explanations to either GCA nor GWT. CGN has been forthright to us and that's all that should matter to us and CFC. Screw Lucky. Since when does he deserve the right to have his "case" heard and responded to by CGN? I can't wait till we can make public Luck'y previous "explanation" on how the RNG works.

	15-07-2004 08:06									#355
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I suspect that any peace won't last long - probably as little as one turn - as GWT and GCA won't allow CGN to be able to "spy" on their cities for us. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if GCA and GWT accept the peace and declare war again on CGN in the same turn...

Question is whether having a 1-turn peace makes more sense than having an enforced peace or not.

	15-07-2004 09:34									#356
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Well, if GWT and/or GCA declared war on CGN then the WW would return to their previous levels if they didn't wait more than 5 turns. I think it would take nearly 20 turns for the WW to completely abate before GWT or GCA could declare war without suffering from the effects of WW from the previous war. That said, CFC can still "spy" for us; well, until they make their own landing that is.

That does bring up a very intersting point though as well....

What if a team did not want to sign a "peace" treaty with another so as to prevent that other team from spying on you? Even if no combat is taking place there can and will be situations where a team would want to prevent such a thing.

	15-07-2004 11:11									#357
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quote: Originally posted by BigFree What if a team did not want to sign a "peace" treaty with another so as to prevent that other team from spying on you? Even if no combat is taking place there can and will be situations where a team would want to prevent such a thing.

In this case I would suggest that the team who doesn't want to get spied upon be the one to declare war.

	15-07-2004 12:59									#358
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen In this case I would suggest that the team who doesn't want to get spied upon be the one to declare war.

That doesn't quite cut it.

If a second party started a war and they want to prevent spying due a third party they are now at war with they should not be forced to sign peace with the first party so that it opens them up to be spied upon by that first party.

For instance, lets say CFC makes it's landing and has to declare war on GWT. CFC makes it's withdraw (or their units die, whatever) and five turns pass and CFC asks for peace from GWT. Heck, if we are still at war with GWT we might ask CFC to do some spying for us on GWT cities. It would be in GWT's best interest to not give peace to CFC just because of their ability to spy for us. Yes, they could give CFC peace and then on the next turn declare war themselves, but why even have a lapse of a single turn? CFC and APO would be (are, in fact) in an alliance against GWT. Why would GWT not be allowed to secure it's postion of all out war on both CFC and APO?

For this reason, I say that all cases need to be looked at individually.

	18-07-2004 01:10									#359
	Micco Posted this over at CGN's Embassy Forum Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: It's not a screenshot but this is probably the best place to put this so someone will notice. The turn is at GWT on a 48 hour hold (~33 hours now) Bongo from GWT stopped by #isdg yesterday and offered the following proposal: quote: GWT will offer peace and 5gpt to CGN on the end of their turn 720ad. CGN will accept immediately. If the peace holds, GWT will pay 50 gold in turn 770ad and 50 more on turn 870. The treaty will run for 20 turns and the total sum will be 200gold. By our constitution I had to run the poll, but I did so with the following disclaimer (so far there are no yes votes and peace requires a 2/3 majority.) quote: Originally Posted by miccofl Weighing the advantages against the disadvantages, along with insights and inferred intent in the chat (see bolded text below) I must consider the effect the loss of WW to GWT would have on our allies who are about to wage war on GWT. I therefore vote No. quote: [07:16:16:14] *** Bongo (tom-rune.d@1868C60.863FDC21.4E9E9559.IP) has joined channel #isdg [07:16:16:16] [miccofl> Hello [07:16:16:21] [Bongo> Hi there [07:16:16:22] [miccofl> Heard you guys wanted to discuss some things [07:16:16:23] [Bongo> Yeah, any things actually, I don't think our two teams has discussed anything the last 6 months [07:16:16:24] [miccofl> not since the war started so maybe longer [07:16:16:24] [Bongo> I think the war had just started when I joined... [07:16:16:24] [miccofl> sounds about right [07:16:16:25] [Bongo> Noticed one missing galley this turn, I guess that is your work [07:16:16:25] [miccofl> [07:16:16:25] [Bongo> we are currently discussing the turn so we haven't actually looked there yet [07:16:16:26] [miccofl> had to put its cargo ashore and you were in the way [07:16:16:26] [Bongo> haha [07:16:16:26] [miccofl> lucky shot really [07:16:16:26] [Bongo> We haven't seen the cargo yet but I guess it is close to washington then [07:16:16:26] [miccofl> within its borders [07:16:16:27] [Bongo> galley vs galley is always 50% , got a promotion btw? [07:16:16:28] [miccofl> no promotion [07:16:16:29] [miccofl> had to prove to Lucky that he was wrong [07:16:16:29] [Bongo> Oh well, we will probably leave the galley alone, our navy will be busy elsewhere, but the cargo may be disposed of quickly [07:16:16:30] [miccofl> would be nice if you let him see it [07:16:16:30] [Bongo> He'll see the galley, and we will send him a pic anyway [07:16:16:31] [miccofl> I have screens to back our position as well but was hoping to rub it in [07:16:16:32] [Bongo> The previous situation between GCA/CFC/APO were handled...sub-optimal [07:16:16:33] [Bongo> I was thinking perhaps we could sort this out without waiting for the admin? [07:16:16:33] [miccofl> by the book it's 5 turns after hostilities cease [07:16:16:35] [miccofl> so 5 turns after the "cargo" dies we accept [07:16:16:35] [Bongo> well, the book is a bit unclear on that point, besides, it doesn't stop us seeking alternative solutions does it? [07:16:16:35] [miccofl> nope [07:16:16:36] [Bongo> I believe it was much more than 5 turn when mongoose intervened. And GCA didn't want peace at all when they found out APO was hurt by WW [07:16:16:36] [miccofl> true [07:16:16:36] [Bongo> So Mongoose just said 'enough is enough' and told them to make peace [07:16:16:38] [Bongo> I don't know where the 5 turns came from, it may have been just an example. [07:16:16:38] [miccofl> mongoose's computer is fried [07:16:16:38] [Bongo> Anyway, I always thought APO were stupid not to solve this diplomatically [07:16:16:38] [miccofl> it's hard to be diplomatic when you are talking to Lucky [07:16:16:39] [Bongo> They complained to us but never offered us anything, or asked us to do anything [07:16:16:39] [Bongo> Hehe, he can be a pain in the ass sometimes [07:16:16:39] [miccofl> you are too kind [07:16:16:40] [Bongo> Neihter GCA nor APO has given the impressioin they actually talked to each other btw [07:16:16:42] [miccofl> not after they switched continents but they did before that [07:16:16:42] [Bongo> Ouch, so we had one very angry team and one that teased them as best as they could, and they didn't speak [07:16:16:43] [Bongo> Anyway, would you be interested in some compensation for accepting peace earlier? [07:16:16:43] [miccofl> what did you have in mind? [07:16:16:43] [Bongo> Gold? [07:16:16:44] [miccofl> how much gold? [07:16:16:44] [miccofl> I'll have to poll it [07:16:16:45] [Bongo> Somo place between what we save on geting rid of WW 5 turns earlier and what you get anyway when you are forced to make peace ( 0 ) [07:16:16:45] [Bongo> Other kinds of compensations may also be possible, any suggestions? [07:16:16:46] [miccofl> we still out-tech you and we have no harbor yet so gold is about all we have to work with [07:16:16:47] [miccofl> give me a more specific proposal and I will poll it ASAP [07:16:16:48] [Bongo> True, how about a promise to not follow you? [07:16:16:48] [miccofl> GCA on the other hand can wait another 5 turns [07:16:16:48] [miccofl> follow us? [07:16:16:49] [Bongo> you are not very far away from us, once we get navigation you are only 3 turns away [07:16:16:51] [miccofl> if you wanted to do that, what was the purpose of this discussion? [07:16:16:51] [Bongo> To get rid of WW, crossing the sea would take much longer than 5 turns [07:16:16:52] [Bongo> According to APO, you sold them your free tech on the beginning of the next age, taking you out before that could happen would hurt APO [07:16:16:53] [miccofl> next on your hit list are they? [07:16:16:55] [Bongo> Not really, but currently they are the strongest civ next to us, of course we want to weaken them if we can [07:16:16:57] [Bongo> I'm not saying we *are* going to chase after you without a deal. It's just something we *may* do if we decide we will benefit from it [07:16:16:58] [miccofl> So if I were to poll on us accepting peace with you on the turn after next with our acceptance we would get __________________ (fill in the blank ) [07:16:17:00] [Bongo> I discussed the subject loosely wiht the team and 5gpt for 20 turns is okay, I would also add some one-time payment to get the total at about 200g [07:16:17:00] [Bongo> we have not done any polling or detailed discussion on this [07:16:17:02] [miccofl> shall we both poll on 100 lump sum and 5 per turn? [07:16:17:02] [Bongo> What is your personal opinion btw? [07:16:17:03] [miccofl> undecided, there are advantages and disadvatages to both options [07:16:17:03] [Bongo> Personally I would part the lump sum in half, one at turn 5, one at turn 10(or 15) [07:16:17:04] [Bongo> Accepting the deal will give you money, but also strengthen us [07:16:17:05] [miccofl> pitting one of the advantages against one of the disadvantages does not help me to make my decision [07:16:17:06] [Bongo> Hehe, it's not supposed to be easy, if it was, one of us would be making a very bad deal [07:16:17:07] [miccofl> I usually vote last anyway in case of a tie vote [07:16:17:08] [miccofl> if I tie the vote I vote twice [07:16:17:09] [miccofl> I'm glad this constitution didn't make it to the C3Cidg [07:16:17:09] [Bongo> What do you need to include GCA then, would it be enough if we make lucky behave [07:16:17:09] [miccofl> don't take this wrong but you don't have enough gold [07:16:17:10] [miccofl> If they were included the poll would fail [07:16:17:11] [Bongo> Ok. Should I summarize this into a temporary treaty then? [07:16:17:11] [miccofl> ok [07:16:17:13] [Bongo> GWT will offer peace and 5gpt the CGN on the end of their current turn. If the peace holds, GWT will pay 50 gold in turn 770ad and 50 moron turn 870. The total sum will be 200g over 20 turns. [07:16:17:13] [Bongo> *to CGN' not the... [07:16:17:13] [Bongo> *more on* not moron [07:16:17:14] [miccofl> I'll poll it [07:16:17:14] [Bongo> So will I, shall we meet again tomorrow? Or is an PN exchange good enough? [07:16:17:15] [miccofl> I need 48 hours on war/peace polls [07:16:17:16] [Bongo> Hm, we'll have to hold the game then. [07:16:17:17] [miccofl> don't you need to poll it before you offer? [07:16:17:18] [Bongo> No, I can offer anything I like but it isn't valid until after a poll. [07:16:17:19] [Bongo> Unless I am acting withing some predefined authorithy, but that is not the case now. [07:16:17:22] [miccofl> well we might as well both poll then, that way we both know [07:16:17:23] [Bongo> Yeah, I'm wiring the poll now. I have to remember the 'behead Bongo' option [07:16:17:24] [miccofl> me too lol [07:16:17:24] [Bongo> While I'm here, why was your capitol named Århus? [07:16:17:25] [miccofl> We named our cities after team members cities. CGN and buster the owner live there [07:16:17:25] [Bongo> Ah [07:16:17:27] [Bongo> Another thing, did you ever build the forbidden palace? Our statisticans claim with 85% probability you did not [07:16:17:29] [miccofl> don't you just love a mystery [07:16:17:30] [Bongo> They can't prove it, but they did have an impressive list of cites where it possible couldn't be, which left half dozen places which would be real stupid places for the FP [07:16:17:32] [Bongo> Did you put up the poll yet? Should probably include the starting turn of the treaty(730 for you) [07:16:17:32] [miccofl> working on it [07:16:17:33] [Bongo> I'm revising the traety some... [07:16:17:34] [Bongo> GWT will offer peace and 5gpt to CGN on the end of their turn 720ad. CGN will accept immideately. If the peace hold, GWT will pay 50 gold in turn 770ad and 50 more on turn 870. The treaty will run for 20 turns and the total sum will be 200gold [07:16:17:35] [Bongo> removed typos and added dates... [07:16:17:35] [miccofl> ok [07:16:17:40] [Bongo> Anyhing more? [07:16:17:41] [miccofl> no, I'll have an answer in 48 hours [07:16:17:41] [Bongo> Good, so do I or one of my team-mates [07:16:17:41] [Bongo> Bye then [07:16:17:41] [miccofl> later [07:16:17:41] *** Signoff: Bongo (Quit: ) Thought I would post this for your intelligence service.

Miccofl had put the Bold type in the Original, so I have reproduced it here.

I've only really glanced at it, but it looks interesting. I did tell Micco, that Trip figures that GWT is likely running at 40% lux and they would make more than they would give them, if they got peace....

E_T

	18-07-2004 01:32									#360
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Wait, GWT said their navy is busy elsewhere. Am I the only one who finds that suspicious?