23-09-2003 22:21									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon *Agathon wonders why LOTM insists on turning every single thread he participates in into a lecture about Judaism*

only the religious threads

Cause i get kinda tired of disputes about "religion" in which it is assumed that religion = christianity. Why does everyone else turn such threads into lectures on christianity, or secularism or whatever? Maybe y'all might actually learn about something you dont already know about.

	23-09-2003 23:57									#32
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LoTM:

Well said, we do need to be reminded that 'religious' need not equate with Christianity.

Asher:

quote: If you are religious, and if you believe that homosexuality is either a sin, not natural, or immoral: 1) Do you recognize that most homosexuals are deeply offended by that?

Yes, I do.

quote: 2) Do you care?

Everyone who sins hates being told that what they do is sinful. As Christians, one of our tasks is to call out to people the necessity of repentence. In order to do this, one must first expose sin.

quote: 3) If you believe that homosexuals are okay, but homosexual sex is a sin -- can you please explain the logic behind that...

Love the sinner, hate the sin.

Our identity is not equated with our sexual preferences. Since it is possible for a person to change their preferences, it is also possible for a person to repent or to turn away from sin.

Now, this does not just apply to homosexuality, but to all forms of sin. What you have to remember is that this is the way God looks at people. God loves each and every one of us even when we sin. I'm reminded of CS Lewis when he says that we love God because God loved us first. Since Christians are supposed to emulate God, this is how we must see the people who we consider 'sinners'

	23-09-2003 23:59									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Love the sinner, hate the sin.

When this is applied towards avowed homosexuals, why does it sound to me, like it's patronizing/paternal, as well as ignorant?

	24-09-2003 00:01									#34
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Not all Xians are ignorant bastards. I wasn't. There's nothing wrong with homosexuality. The problem is the [i]evil[i] religious types, who unfortunately, are very numerous.

	24-09-2003 00:02									#35
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quote: or perhaps, were designed genetically to prefer other kids.

strike that out from the last post of mine.

	24-09-2003 00:02									#36
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark only the religious threads Cause i get kinda tired of disputes about "religion" in which it is assumed that religion = christianity. Why does everyone else turn such threads into lectures on christianity, or secularism or whatever? Maybe y'all might actually learn about something you dont already know about.

Y'all the same to me , boy.

	24-09-2003 00:05									#37
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quote: When this is applied towards avowed homosexuals, why does it sound to me, like it's patronizing/paternal, as well as ignorant?

Eh, if you're going to flame, do so openly. Don't skulk around in the shadows.

	24-09-2003 00:09									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Eh, if you're going to flame, do so openly. Don't skulk around in the shadows.

I'm not sneaking around -- why do you think I posted?



I would not be surprised if you and Park Avenue lust after one another.

	24-09-2003 00:11									#39
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People fear what they don't understand, and since many ppl don't understand homosexuals they will fear them. When fear takes hold everything begins to look weird. Shadows take the forms of ghosts, trees the form of witches, and words in religious text as words against those they fear...

People just need to let people live there life as those people see fit... as long as they arn't hurting someone else.

People are Strange
When they are Strangers

I miss Jim

	24-09-2003 00:11									#40
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun I would not be surprised if you and Park Avenue lust after one another.

	24-09-2003 00:27									#41
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Ben! This is a flame, just so you don' t think I am sneaking around!

Things That Would Be Different If The 12 Disciples Were Gay


1. The "Sermon on the Mount" would be a musical.

2. Jesus would never wear white after Labour Day.

3. Priests would get married... wait a minute... never mind.

4. The Gospels would be Matthew, Mark, Luke and Bruce.

5. Mary's hair would be FLAWLESS.

6. The Temple would not have been cleansed of money changers, just re-decorated.

7. The water at the Wedding Feast of Canaan would have turned into dry martinis with just a splash of Curacao for colour.

8. The Triumphal Entry just screams for a drag number.

9. Replace the "Beatitudes" with "Fabulous are they..."

10. The Last Supper would have been a brunch.

	24-09-2003 01:52									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Since Imran got the other thread deleted after a rather embarassing brainfart for him, I thought we'd try this again, toned down. If you are religious, and if you believe that homosexuality is either a sin, not natural, or immoral: 1) Do you recognize that most homosexuals are deeply offended by that? 2) Do you care? Also, for those to which this applies: 3) If you believe that homosexuals are okay, but homosexual sex is a sin -- can you please explain the logic behind that...

I'm a Christian.

From all I've been able to ascertain, Gay isn't a choice one makes, it's a recognition.
Something to do with gene makeup, I think.

That said, I've nothing against Gays, as a whole.
I've nothing against Gay relations, as a whole.

What I do have a problem with is Gays taking their sexual encounters "public"
But before any of you Gay people get all hopped up, the same goes for Straights.
I'm not a big fan of excessive public displays of affection.

I don't think Gays are condemned to Hell.

	24-09-2003 02:07									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi As Christians, one of our tasks is to call out to people the necessity of repentence. In order to do this, one must first expose sin.

As it occured to you, as Christians, that perhaps not everybody believes in the same wishywashy Santa Claus, Easter Bunny, God crap that you do? That we might find it offensive, downright annoying, and extremely condescending of you to call out to everyone to repent because some ancient book, interpreted in some ancient and twisted way, says what they do is wrong.

It's their life, not yours, so stay out of it.

	24-09-2003 02:12									#44
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Whenever I'm lectured by religious people about homosexuality and God, I always feel like I'm an adult being lectured by a 6-year old explaining how Santa can visit every house in a single night...

	24-09-2003 02:14									#45
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Ok, Asher.
I was going to ignore your flaming, but how is your ranting any better than anyone else's ?

	24-09-2003 02:22									#46
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I'm saying they should keep their opinions to theirselves, they're telling me I'm going to hell.

Do you really need someone to explain the difference?

	24-09-2003 02:24									#47
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Asher: You did ask for it by starting this thread

	24-09-2003 02:34									#48
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I guess I might as well clarify my position now, seeing as there are plenty of other Christians to attract the fires. Homosexuality is a sin of approximately the same gravity as heterosexual fornication, insofar as it is sexual gratification with somebody you aren't married to(we don't do gay marriages, they're a male-female thing). This policy isn't necessarily the fruit of homophobia itself, though it is safe to say that the rock-throwing godhatesfags crap is, seeing as you don't see those people mailing explosives to the cast of Friends for depicting sexual depravity...like I said, I'm pretty indifferent on the issue myself, but that's the idea I've been told in a nutshell.

	24-09-2003 04:18									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Asher I'm saying they should keep their opinions to theirselves, they're telling me I'm going to hell. Do you really need someone to explain the difference?

Sure, you're going to hell; but not because you're gay.

	24-09-2003 04:27									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Asher I'm saying they should keep their opinions to theirselves, they're telling me I'm going to hell. Do you really need someone to explain the difference?

That's close.
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and buffalo farts.

What you actually have, is a "religious type" insinuating, in your mind, that you're going to Hell.
You also have a "religious type" telling you to accept God into your heart, and all is well.

You made the choice on who to listen to, didn't you ?

	24-09-2003 04:35									#51
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand What you actually have, is a "religious type" insinuating, in your mind, that you're going to Hell.

Not in my mind, he's made it very clear that unless we "repent" our sins we go to hell.

quote: You also have a "religious type" telling you to accept God into your heart, and all is well. You made the choice on who to listen to, didn't you ?

I have to listen to whoever shouts crap at me on the Speakers Corner at school when I pass by, and I do not appreciate a redneck Christian condemning homosexuals.

All I'm saying is, what goes around comes around. And religious partcipation rates are dropping, so it looks like hardcore Christians are going to be in for a lot of fun in the future.

	24-09-2003 04:35									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Asher If you are religious, and if you believe that homosexuality is either a sin, not natural, or immoral: 1) Do you recognize that most homosexuals are deeply offended by that? 2) Do you care? Also, for those to which this applies: 3) If you believe that homosexuals are okay, but homosexual sex is a sin -- can you please explain the logic behind that...

1.) Yes
2.) Yes
3.) Any true Christian would forgive another for their sin, whether it be stealing, murder, etc.

My church is against homosexuality, but we have members who are in good standing, and will remain so, as long as they do not act upon their 'feelings', as we only accept the traditional male-female marriage, and any sexual activity outside of marriage is wrong, regardless of sexual orientation.

	24-09-2003 04:37									#53
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Why should homosexuals be "forgiven"?

There are hundreds of ridiculous things the bible says, and I don't see all of them so rigidly enforced as the parts against homosexuality.

Further, homosexuals should not have to seek forgiveness. It's not yours to give, and it's not ours to seek, not from you.

	24-09-2003 04:37									#54
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What's your faith, Verto?

	24-09-2003 04:41									#55
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And why is homosexuality in the same category as "stealing, murder, etc."

	24-09-2003 04:41									#56
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand What's your faith, Verto?

I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or as most people know us as, Mormons.

	24-09-2003 04:42									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Asher And why is homosexuality in the same category as "stealing, murder, etc."

It is in the category of sin; that is not to say it is on the same level as either, or that it isn't. I merely picked sins at random.

	24-09-2003 04:43									#58
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I know a gay mormon who was convinced by his church that he is now straight, and is almost done his mission in California.

I feel sorry for whatever girl he marries and has kids with, because the guy is a total flamer.

	24-09-2003 04:46									#59
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Ok, here's the deal, Verto and Ben.

Going on what you say, one way or another, God made a mistake.
I want to tell you, that would make me extremely nervous.
God doesn't make mistakes. Period.

Last edited by SlowwHand on 24-09-2003 at 04:55

	24-09-2003 04:50									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Asher I have to listen to whoever shouts crap at me on the Speakers Corner at school when I pass by, and I do not appreciate a redneck Christian condemning homosexuals. .

Aw boo hoo. I can't stand these people either. I fill with rage every morning when I pass the newstand and see whatever right wing lies the Sun is promoting today. I fume when I can't turn anywhere without seeing vacuous adverts. etc. etc.

Part of living in a pluralistic society is that we have to put up with people and things we don't like. Some of the religious people hate gays - no matter, they still have to put up with you.