29-12-2003 07:58									#61
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Togas said that he is available Monday night (tomorrow) if we want to do a Sunshine-Tabemono chat.

Probably a good idea as we haven't chatted for a while...

	04-01-2004 08:53									#62
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Chat with Togas on Saturday night

quote: [* Kloreep has joined #feast * Sharpe sets mode: +o Kloreep * Kloreep sets mode: +ps * Togas has joined #feast [Togas] greetings [Sharpe] Hi [Kloreep] Hi [Sharpe] Just wanted to give an update on how things are going [Togas] sounds good [Sharpe] We are currently researching Literature , you still doing Construction? [Togas] still working on it [Sharpe] any idea of when you might be finishing it? (in case a swarm of barbs suddenly appear ) [Togas] @11 turns at this point [Kloreep] Do you have any trades set up immediately? [Togas] let me check [Kloreep] So long as you're the only one in the next era, barbs don't pop up [Sharpe] yeah, but what if the other continent also reaches the next era ? [Togas] I've got a note saying that we'll get Currency from you guys [Kloreep] You did [Togas] but nothing really set up otherwise [Kloreep] Yeah, no new trades yet [Sharpe] We will probably be done Lit before you finish Construction [Kloreep] I have the save up right now. We'll be done with Lit in 4 turns [Sharpe] k thanks Kloreep [Togas] ah, here we go! -- We give Writing, Mapmaking, Philo, 20g. You give Math, Currency [Kloreep] Unless we have to reduce the slider, but we should have quite enough money [Sharpe] We think that trade was completed, but we can check to make sure [Togas] did we already go through with the currency trade? I can't tell from the threads [Kloreep] Yep, we did [Togas] gotcha. Sorry I missed that. [Kloreep] np [Sharpe] np, busy time of year [Sharpe] I guess we are all running out of ancient techs to research [Togas] looks like it's Monarchy, Rep, Lit, and Constr. [Sharpe] yeah [Togas] once we get constr, we'll get a free tech from the next era [Sharpe] oh yeah? the joys of being scientific [Togas] [Sharpe] Do you know what the other civs are researching right now ? [Sharpe] I think we all know what LL is doing thanks to Arnelos's not-so-private thread [Togas] let me check to see if we have anything posted... [Togas] all I know is a PM from Dec 11 saying they're headed towards a "peaceful republic" [Togas] MAST also wanted to go Republic, so I'm not sure which of the two of them is going there, or if both are [Sharpe] hmm [Kloreep] BTW, do you have any deals to trade Construction immediately? [Togas] nothing set up yet [Kloreep] k, so barbs might not be an immediate worry... good to know [Togas] but once we get constr to someone... anyone, they'll come, and in great numbers [Sharpe] yeah [Togas] we have a very large black zone to our south, west, north .... [Togas] it's going to be ugly [Sharpe] you do have Phalanxes [Togas] Panzer set this world to "psycho" Barbs [Sharpe] is that a fact or a guess ? [Togas] a pretty good guess [Sharpe] though it sure looks that way to me [Kloreep] "psycho" barbs: As opposed to the peaceful kind? [Sharpe] peaceful barbs - now that is an interesting concept [Togas] true, we do have our faithful Sunshine Guardians, and we're going to need them all [Sharpe] especially posting them on mountains and hills , which you seem to have plenty of [Sharpe] I have never seen such a line of mountains as the one north of you in a game [Sharpe] anything you want to raise with us? [Togas] can you confirm that it's just the 4 of us? [Togas] tabemono, sunshine, LL, MAST? [Sharpe] hmm, well unless you are hiding someone down south or LL is hiding someone , don't think there might be anyone else [Togas] makes sense [Kloreep] Not a whole lot of land up here... just tundra to our north and you to our south [Togas] I think we're all still in REX mode, but at some point, someone is going to get ugly [Sharpe] hmm, any suspicions who that someone is? [Togas] I worry a bit about MAST ... but they probably worry about our Hoplites [Sharpe] I have heard that LL has a lot of early warriors too , especially MZ and the Slayer [Togas] thus far, no problems [Togas] LL, are they Rome? [Kloreep] Yep [Togas] that could be a problem [Sharpe] yeah, so Legions ... [Togas] MAST is closest to LL [Kloreep] Yes, that's the good news for the rest of us [Kloreep] But if they get MAST's land and a FP, they could become quite a juggernaut [Sharpe] they are quite a juggernaut already with the score, power and land size [Togas] are you guys interested in forming some sort of defensive alliance down the road? [Kloreep] I'm certainly interested [Kloreep] Though I can't speak for the team [Sharpe] It certainly is worth bringing up in the forum [Togas] I'll ask BF and HarryH (our only active members, really) and see what they think [Togas] if both of our guys like it, we could work up something simple [Sharpe] sounds like an idea [Togas] cool. I'm going to idle a bit and watch some TV, just PM me in here if you guys would like to talk some more [Sharpe] k [Togas] later * Togas has left #feast

Edit by Kloreep: fixed /quote tag

	12-01-2004 06:46									#63
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I think we should send a "we can't see a great deal for you but shall we try to work out a ten-IOU deal so you get something?" message to Sunshine soon. That way we'll know whether to start research on Construction soon.

	27-01-2004 09:10									#64
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Scheduling a chat between Sunshine and Tabemono - possibly later on tonight or Wednesday at 10pm and discussed some matters:

quote: [Sharpe] Hi Togas. Just wondering if we can arrange a chat between Team Sunshine and Team Tabemono sometime soon? [Togas] sure. Maybe later tonight, if not, perhaps weds evening [Sharpe] k, though already fairly late for me here , though Zargon and Kloreep might be around for a while - if not Wed evening would be good [Togas] if you guys want to chat later tonight, I'll be around, if not, let's shoot for 10pm EST on Weds? [Sharpe] let me check with Zargon [Sharpe] Zargon and Kloreep both say either is fine - though Kloreep joked how you are actually talking with him in Merc right now [Togas] yep [Sharpe] do Sunshine have much longer until Construction is done? [Togas] we finished it [Togas] we're working on Monotheism now [Sharpe] ah so you got your free tech? [Togas] engineering [Sharpe] nice [Togas] very nice. We didn't need Feud [Sharpe] the joys of being scientific [Togas] [Sharpe] I guess everyone now has everyone's maps now [Togas] just the four of us [Sharpe] yeah [Sharpe] LL will probably have Construction done soon too unfortunately or not [Togas] you want to buy it from us first? [Sharpe] hmm, what would you want for it ? [Togas] pretty much whatever we can get [Togas] you have Lit? [Sharpe] yes we have Lit [Togas] maybe Lit + 50g? [Sharpe] sounds intriguing [Togas] see what the other guys thinks [Togas] think [Sharpe] We were also wondering if we could coordinate our forces to try to minimize the barb uprising [Sharpe] at least, near us that is [Togas] I'd like to, but it's not going to be possible as we have a LOT of empty land near us [Togas] we'd love to at least try to reduce barbs in the region between us [Sharpe] we will have a fair amount of the north covered, especially in the western jungle we think [Sharpe] might be worth coordinating to try to avoid both of us sending units to cover the same area [Togas] agreed. If you guys have a good plan, toss a PM to HarryH as he's been coordinating our barb hunts so far [Sharpe] k [Togas] he should be happy to reduce 'em. We're already fretting internally about how we're going to deal with the uprising [Sharpe] k, we are guessing that LL will have Construction done in 4-6 turns [Togas] of course, if we do a trade first... [Sharpe] true [Togas] not that we'll be more ready for the uprisings in 4-6 turns than we are now [Sharpe] true, we will be though [Togas] but it may surprise the other teams, especially the other continent [Sharpe] lol, should be interesting to see where they are in the tech tree [Togas] indeed [Sharpe] btw, we got rid of barb camp near the western part of the mountain range near you last turn [Togas] we noticed [Sharpe] k [Togas] it's not a big deal. There's a heck of a lot of camps springing up every turn [Sharpe] yeah [Sharpe] nice for money though [Togas] [Sharpe] mind if I post this mini-chat in the forum so that the others on my team can discuss these ideas [Togas] np

If we can get Construction for Literature plus 50 gold , that is a very good deal for us - even 100 gold would be fairly good

Coordinating with them on covering the barbs makes sense I would suggest, so I would recommend that we talk with Harry H about it unless some object strongly about it.

In talking with Kloreep and Zargon while this was going on , we decided not to bring up the Sunshine proposal of a NAP/MPP from them until we have made up our minds re our ally situation nor to bring up borders quite yet.

	27-01-2004 09:18									#65
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I like the deal. However, perhaps we should see if LL will match or exceed it. If they do, I would still prefer to buy this one from them so that we have Lit left over for an Eng or Mono deal with Sunshine.

	30-01-2004 09:54									#66
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Sent to Togas:

quote: Togas, In response to the deal you had proposed to Sharpe the other night, I am pleased to say that we, the Tabejin, are in full agreement with it. The text is as follows: Sunshine agrees to provide the technology of Construction In Exchange: Tabemono agrees to provide the technology of Literature and 50g In Addition: Each team agrees not to resell either technology for 20 turns to any other team. Signed, Master Chef ZargonX

	31-01-2004 00:07									#67
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Recieved back, signed.

quote: ZargonX wrote on 29-01-2004 20:48: Togas, In response to the deal you had proposed to Sharpe the other night, I am pleased to say that we, the Tabejin, are in full agreement with it. The text is as follows: Sunshine agrees to provide the technology of Construction In Exchange: Tabemono agrees to provide the technology of Literature and 50g In Addition: Each team agrees not to resell either technology for 20 turns to any other team. Signed, Master Chef ZargonX Signed, Friendly Relations Guy Togas __________________

If I may say so; cha-ching!

	01-02-2004 21:47									#68
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Sent to Togas

quote: Togas, The Tabejin would like to thank our Sunshiney friends for their cooporation in signing our recent tech deal. However, if they do not mind, we would like to ask them one more favor. If it is acceptable, would the people of Sunshine mind if we delay the trade one additional turn? The Tabejin would like to make sure we have everything in order before facing the massive barbarian unrest that will no doubt come when they learn how advanced the peoples of the world are becoming. Please let us know if this is acceptable to you. Thanks, Master Chef ZargonX

	07-02-2004 11:31									#69
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Highlights from my chat with Togas, proposing the MPP:

quote: ZargonX> ZargonX> and, secondly, the Tabejin, recognizing the friendship and mutual interests of our friends in Sunshinia ZargonX> ZargonX> would like to propose the development of an MPP, for the benefit of all ZargonX> Togas> What do you have in mind? ZargonX> ZargonX> well, first and formost, an agreement to come to each other's aid in times of trouble ZargonX> ZargonX> and to foster growth and sharing between our nations ZargonX> Togas> not a bad idea ZargonX> ZargonX> excellent ZargonX> ZargonX> not anything formal; establishing a border could be discussed as part of the agreement as well, if you like. ZargonX> Togas> We definately should. We're wondering if you're going to go any further south of Hot & Sour ZargonX> whoops... missed the part where he asked how far south we were planning on coming... Kloreep> ? Kloreep> Ah ZargonX> ZargonX> that is what we too are looking for ZargonX> Togas> have you guys worked out how far south you're going to grow your empire? ZargonX> ZargonX> not anything formal; establishing a border could be discussed as part of the agreement as well, if you like. ZargonX> Togas> We definately should. We're wondering if you're going to go any further south of Hot & Sour ZargonX> ZargonX> Like I said, we haven't made any formal decisions yet, but these are definately issues we would like to work out with you ZargonX> ZargonX> there is an awful lot of nasty land between us ZargonX> ZargonX> and, as part of our agreement, we may be able to work out ways to assist you in clearing some of that jungle with our industrious workers ZargonX> Togas> Hopefully that won't be much of an issue. The land is pretty bad, but we've still got plans for some of the jungle just north of our city core ZargonX> ZargonX> just something to consider in the future ZargonX> Togas> that's something I think we'd really appreciate Kloreep> You might want to Togas we don't plan to expand farther south in the near future Kloreep> *want to tell Kloreep> We don't have any use for the jungle right now after all ZargonX> yeah, I'll just mention we have other land to work with ZargonX> ZargonX> just something to consider in the future ZargonX> Togas> that's something I think we'd really appreciate ZargonX> ZargonX> just don't tell team Monkey :shhh: ZargonX> Togas> ZargonX> Togas> I'll post a message in my team forum about this ZargonX> ZargonX> great! ZargonX> Togas> let me know if you guys have any specific conditions. We wouldn't be interested in any sort of an offensive alliance ZargonX> Togas> but we might go for a defensive one ZargonX> ZargonX> yes, understood. ZargonX> Togas> and we'd need to work up borders as a part of the deal ZargonX> ZargonX> we are also looking for a defensive one ZargonX> ZargonX> agreed ZargonX> Togas> ZargonX> Togas> Have you guys sent off the save yet? ZargonX> ZargonX> we probably won't be coming into the south much; we still have some other lands to work with that aren't quite as jungly ZargonX> ZargonX> yes, we did about a half-hour ago ZargonX> Togas> if not, can you offer WMs? We'll send you our WM. Barbarians are coming ZargonX> Togas> ah ZargonX> ZargonX> d'oh, sorry ZargonX> ZargonX> heh, it's going to be a lively one, that's for sure ZargonX> Togas> how are things with you guys and LL? ZargonX> uh... honesty and just say we haven't spoken much? Kloreep> Yeah, I'd say we haven't spoken much ZargonX> ZargonX> we haven't spoken much with them lately; MZ and WIA are hard to catch up with ZargonX> ZargonX> I think WIA has been without internet, actually ZargonX> ZargonX> and MZ is, well... MZ Kloreep> And of course ask how things are between them and LL ZargonX> already did ZargonX> ZargonX> they seem to be a very quiet team... ZargonX> Togas> we've done a few trades, but that's about it ZargonX> ZargonX> whether that is by circumstance or choice, I'm not sure ZargonX> Togas> we're just trying to figure out if they're going to try to rush one of the other teams ZargonX> ZargonX> it's definately a possibility; and their silence doesn't deter that thought ZargonX> Togas> once someone gets Feudalism, their UU becomes 2nd best Kloreep> You might ask if they can comment on whether they're trading them Const... I don't know how much info we give away by asking that, but if their reply is affirmative, that's major ZargonX> ZargonX> it's definately a possibility; and their silence doesn't deter that thought ZargonX> Togas> once someone gets Feudalism, their UU becomes 2nd best ZargonX> ZargonX> yes, the window is closing on it in the near future ZargonX> Togas> so we're just keeping our ears open and our scouts busy ZargonX> ZargonX> how are things with your crazy neighbors to the East? ZargonX> Togas> they've been very polite, actually ZargonX> Togas> they send us the save, and are always putting in some funny/friendly saying ZargonX> Togas> otherwise, not much. I've been meaning to chat with arnelos about border issues, but we always seem to talk about other things instead ZargonX> ZargonX> ZargonX> Togas> MAST is, strangely enough, mil weak to us, so that also makes us feel better. ZargonX> ZargonX> that's good; keeps things feeling a little safer ZargonX> Togas> but who knows what they're up to ZargonX> ZargonX> well, much like their namesake, I guess no one will find out until it's over ZargonX> Togas> I just want to see what happens when they go to war with someone (hopefully not us!) ZargonX> Togas> want to see their military reports, etc ZargonX> ZargonX> anyway, I've got to head to bed, and you probably want to get to your civ game ZargonX> ZargonX> if your team is agreeable to the idea, we should meet again in the next few days to work on the border and hammer out the final details ZargonX> Togas> I'll let you know ZargonX> ZargonX> great! ZargonX> Togas> hopefully soon ZargonX> Togas> take it easy ZargonX> ZargonX> and, once again the Tabejin thank you, and we look forward to friendly dealings with our southern, sunny friends! ZargonX> ZargonX> g'night! ZargonX> anyway, off to bed ZargonX> I'll post this and we can discuss

	08-02-2004 21:14									#70
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Ok, before I go into the next chat with Togas, we should probably agree with ourselves as to where we'd like a border to be. Thoughts?

	08-02-2004 22:06									#71
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We get north of the jungle, they get south of the jungle, and we split the jungle between us would be a good starting point

Specifically, we probably should be willing to give them more of the jungle north of their iron and incense areas, but if we get more of the jungle in another area.

The big questions may be - who gets the gold mountain?
and who gets control of certain rivers in the jungle?

	09-02-2004 03:13									#72
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Going in a straight line across, a bit south of Hot & Sour Soup is roughly a good starting point IMO. Of course, a non-straight line will be better for our specific needs, but I think that might be a good starting point.

They'll probably say that this line is closer to Sunshinia than to Buffet, but we in turn can point out that they have more good land to the south of Sunshinia than we do to the north of Buffet.

As for river access: The river by the gold mountain is ours, IMO. And I think the larger river that Hot & Sour is settled on is ours up to the point where it splits off in two directions southwest of Hot & Sour.

Again, just rough starting points hear. The specifics will need to conform to city placement; we don't want either of us to waste tiles at the border.

	12-02-2004 18:16									#73
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Recieved from Togas:

quote: Sunshine & Tab MMP ZargonX, My team has discussed this and we would be happy to join with our brothers in the north and form the Sunshine-Tabemono Defensive Pact. We want to stress that this is a purely defensive pact. Team Sunshine has no interest in wars. We do not wish to start any wars or get involved in any sort of foreign invasion. However, we understand and recognize that we must be prepared to protect our peaceloving party people, and we also recognize the right of the great Tabemono people to live in peace and harmony ... free from violence. We request that this pact only be activated in the most dire of circumstances ... when one of our cities is attacked. At that point the other team would declare war on the attacking nation(s) and do everything in its power to thwart any further acts of violence on the attacked nation. We think that, to be fair, this pact should be renewed every so often, but we don't see any reason to back out of it. A defense pact with the great Tabemono nation is something that we will treasure, not something that our peaceloving people would want to throw away. So let's set the renewals dates off a ways. We will be happy to include other terms and agreements in this pact. Just let us know. Let's formalize this pact soon and celebrate with a huge party for all of our people! --Togas

	13-02-2004 09:57									#74
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Chat with Togas about the border:

quote: ZargonX> Hey Togas! Togas> hello ZargonX> have a few minutes to discuss establishing a border as per our MPP agreement? Togas> let's ZargonX> ok, let me load up the map... Togas> I'll go pull of the save now to review ZargonX> ok, I've got it in front of me Togas> damn, the most recent save I have doesn't have the full map Togas> hold on, let me get the WM that HarryH posted ZargonX> Togas> harry's WM is of 670bc Togas> should be good ZargonX> yeah, not much has changed Togas> ready ZargonX> ok, to begin... ZargonX> what were your initial thoughts on the line? Togas> hot & sour soup ZargonX> ok, we were thinking along those lines, but a few tiles south; to the split in the river that runs along Hot and Sour ZargonX> at that small knob of hills at the fork Togas> that'll probably work ZargonX> ZargonX> and from that point, a line drawn E-W? Togas> how about we take the hill that is 1-1 from the furs Togas> draw a line E-W from there. Togas> all of the tiles on that line and everything above it are yours ZargonX> ok, regarding the 1-1 point; what if we were to build a city there? ZargonX> would you consider the cultural border extension a violation? Togas> that's going to get very close ZargonX> ok, that's what I figured ZargonX> we can probably work something out based on that point, though ZargonX> I just need to check with the domestic guys; I'm just the military Togas> we'd like to build cities on the inside of that river ... of course, not any time soon but in the future ZargonX> right ZargonX> it's going to be a tough area to live in for a while Togas> yeah, not all that pleasant ZargonX> ok, I will take your proposal back to my team, and we'll get back to you tomorrow, probably Togas> our party people probably won't want to move there until the renovation crews do a little makeover ZargonX> heh, Monkey is going to be pretty upset with both of us if they catch us in the act of clearing that spot Togas> other than settling those incense next to your warrior, we don't really have plans to expand northward right now ZargonX> yes, you still have nicer lands available to you ZargonX> and the incense and iron are conveniently next to each other Togas> useful city spot for us Togas> we figure we'll need iron one of these days ZargonX> our warrior is just hanging around on barb duty right now, let us know if you need us to move him out Togas> I don't think he's in the way right now ZargonX> cool ZargonX> ok, well, I'm going to go play the Tabemono turn right now, since no one else on the team seems to have gotten it yet Togas> Cool. Let me know if you guys want to chat about anything else Togas> FYI, the barbs sprung up right next to MAST and caught them by surprise ZargonX> ah, was that the big decision they had to make? Togas> I think so. They emailed us asking for our help to try to kill a few barbs. I think one of their cities are in danger of being sacked and sacked and sacked ZargonX> that'll learn 'em to not be prepared Togas> We probably should have given them some warning about the coming middle ages ZargonX> heh, guess we must've forgotten to send that memo... ZargonX> as for the text of the MPP; defensive-only, no set time frame? Togas> Defense only. Our team is going with a Hippie Theme ZargonX> and we're going with an eating theme; and who has time for war when their is so much to be eaten? Togas> feel free to set the timeframe to whatever you like. The longer the better

	14-02-2004 20:02									#75
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My proposed MPP text with SS:

quote: Let it be hereby declared that the glorious Tabejin and the fantastic people of Sunshine hereby agree to a defensive alliance for the mutual benefit and protection of all. Let the agreement stand by the following conditions: -If either nation is attacked by hostile forces, the other nation shall immediately come to their military aid. -If either Tabemono or Sunshine is the aggressor in a war, the other nation is not obligated to assist. -In addition to military aid, neither nation shall trade with the enemy of the other during times of war unless agreed upon by the other. -The Tabejin and Sunshine people agree to not take hostile action against each other. -There shall be a border between our nations created at (to be determined soon). -This agreement shall stand in place for 40 turns from the moment of signing. Let our two nations move forward in peace and prosperity! Signed, Signed,

How's it look? I think I've covered the main loopholes that usually pop up in these things...

	15-02-2004 04:13									#76
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quote: -The Tabejin and Sunshine people agree to not take hostile action against each other.

Heh... isn't this essentially the clause that caused such consternation between GoW and GS in the PTWDG?

Otherwise it looks good. I need to take a closer look at the border though...

	15-02-2004 20:45									#77
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quote: -If either Tabemono or Sunshine is the aggressor in a war, the other nation is not obligated to assist.

Do I need to point out what a huge flaming loophole this is?

	15-02-2004 20:47									#78
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quote: Originally posted by Kloreep Heh... isn't this essentially the clause that caused such consternation between GoW and GS in the PTWDG? Otherwise it looks good. I need to take a closer look at the border though...

Almost exactly.

	15-02-2004 21:01									#79
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UnO: Yes, I suppose we would have argue about what constitutes being the "aggressor." How about this:

-If either Tabemono or Sunshine is the aggressor in a war, the other nation is not obligated to assist. Attacking foreign troops within your own borders counts as a defensive action, and not as "aggression," and thus would activate the MPP. Additionally, attacking troops outside of one's own borders may also be considered defensive if it is a situation where a foreign power has made their intentions clear, but is attempting to cause the other side to strike first so that they will carry the burdens of having "started" a war.

I know that's a little wordy, but I think it helps firm it up.

	15-02-2004 21:05									#80
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Yeah, but as I was saying in another thread, it is very possible that knowing about the MPP with Sunshine and a possible alliance with MAST - that LL may try a diversionary tactic by attacking MAST (or even a fake invasion of Sunshine) to force us to attack them.

	02-03-2004 09:59									#81
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: [21:20] * Togas has joined #feast [21:20] [Togas] hello [21:20] [Sharpe] Hi! [21:20] [Kloreep] Hi [21:20] * Kloreep sets mode: +o Togas [21:20] [ZargonX] hey Togas [21:21] [ZargonX] my apologies if I'm the silent type tonight [21:21] [Sharpe] typing with fingers taped must be hard [21:21] [ZargonX] just need some practice [21:21] [Togas] what's the news from up north? [21:22] [Kloreep] We've made contact with the other continent [21:23] [Kloreep] As you probably know from my slip-up [21:23] [UnOrthOdOx] Thanks to me kicking these builders in the rear and proposing the galley set sail [21:23] [Togas] nice! [21:24] [UnOrthOdOx] [21:24] [Togas] anything you can share with team Sunshine? [21:25] [Kloreep] We've been discussing contact trading with them [21:25] [Kloreep] So you might have contact yourselves soon [21:25] [UnOrthOdOx] I have a personal question, Togas. [21:25] [UnOrthOdOx] About this game. [21:25] [Togas] sure [21:26] [UnOrthOdOx] Would Sunshine be interested in an extension of FARE? [21:26] [UnOrthOdOx] (Fog and rebel extermination pact) [21:26] [Togas] the pact is fine with us now. We'd be happy to extend it [21:26] [UnOrthOdOx] Extending it to the new continent, basically. [21:27] [Togas] hmm, that would mean we get your new maps of the other continent? [21:27] [UnOrthOdOx] That would be the plan. [21:27] [Togas] I think we'd happy agree to that [21:28] [Kloreep] One short issue we'd like to discuss: our warriors down south are pretty much useless [21:28] [UnOrthOdOx] There has been resistence over there so far, but I am hopefull [21:29] [Kloreep] Would you give us permission to bring one or more back through your borders? [21:29] [Kloreep] *one or both [21:29] [Togas] you may bring both through, that's fine [21:29] [Togas] just let us know where and when [21:29] [Kloreep] k [21:30] [Sharpe] We also were wondering if Sunshine would be interested in some sort of a Feudalism for Monotheism trade (admittedly Mono is 4 tech pts higher) [21:30] [Togas] we should have mono in @7 turns [21:31] [Togas] I'll post the offer with my team to see what they think [21:32] [Sharpe] k [21:32] [Kloreep] And that leaves the last issue for us: [21:33] [Kloreep] The MPP/border deal that's been collecting a little dust [21:33] [Sharpe] just a warning that there is a barb camp 6 or so squares W of Peace Pipes, but we are hopefully getting rid of it [21:33] [Togas] let's get that thing signed! [21:33] [Kloreep] Yes, that barb camp will hopefully be gone soon [21:33] [Kloreep] There may be a warrior wondering your way though [21:34] [Sharpe] what was the proposed border again? [21:34] [Togas] gotcha. We have Goody Hut Gary on a mtn nearby that region, taking care of stray barbs [21:34] [Togas] last time we were talking border, it was somewhere just south of hot & sour [21:34] [Kloreep] Yes [21:34] [Kloreep] One thing I wasn't clear on was what you meant by border though [21:35] [Kloreep] Do you mean the limit to settling cities, or the limit to cities' radii? [21:35] [Togas] yeah, we never quite worked it out. Here's my current thought, let me know what you think [21:35] [Togas] there's a river north of peace pipes [21:36] [Togas] that runs to a T junction, one end heads towards Hot & Sour, the other heads east [21:36] [Sharpe] yes [21:36] [Togas] at that T junction ... draw a east-west line [21:37] [Togas] we would make that the border and ask that no one settle next to that line, but we can't do much about culture. [21:37] [Kloreep] That line runs through tiles [21:38] [Kloreep] So neither party would settle on the tiles on that line? [21:38] [Togas] I think that would be fair, but if necessary, down the road, we can talk about it again. [21:38] [Kloreep] IE, 9-9-9 and 9-8 of Peace Pipes would be off limit to both of us? [21:38] [Togas] I think it'd be a good rule for us to use now. [21:39] [Togas] kloreep -- yes [21:39] [Kloreep] Looks good to me [21:40] [Sharpe] hmm, what about those LL cities - we might need adjustments to either side if they keep building cities [21:40] [Sharpe] in the east probably [21:41] [Togas] we'll see what happens with LL ... at some point they'll stop building cities and start trampling cities [21:42] [Sharpe] yeah, we have some intelligence they they are probably sending yet another settler westward [21:43] [Kloreep] If the border deal times out along with the MPP, then this probably won't be a problem [21:44] [Kloreep] We just make any needed adjustments at renegotiation time [21:44] [Togas] we can do that. [21:44] [Sharpe] yeah, the border deal sounds good [21:45] [Togas] can we agree tonight to border and MPP? [21:45] [Sharpe] our side can have a vote - 4 out of the 5 actives are in this chat [21:46] [Togas] [21:46] [Sharpe] that would be a NAP/MPP of course [21:46] [Kloreep] Heh, don't bring that up with a GoWer and RPer in the same chat j/k [21:47] [Sharpe] lol [21:47] [Togas] bah, that stuff is ancient history. [21:48] [UnOrthOdOx] eh. different game. [21:48] [Togas] very true. And unortho and I (and Kloreep) are together in team Mercenary [21:48] [UnOrthOdOx] Togas and I aren't the type to hold that against each other. [21:48] [Sharpe] what's Sunshine view on the LL situation right now? [21:48] [Kloreep] Yes [21:49] * Kloreep looks at Zargon [21:49] [ZargonX] yeah, the only game I hold grudges in is Diplomacy [21:49] [ZargonX] I mean, I don't... [21:49] [Kloreep] Wasn't it Conmcb who was giving the Mercs a hard time? [21:49] [ZargonX] [21:49] [Kloreep] [21:49] [Togas] Sunshine is worried that LL is going to get offensive before everyone upgrades to Pikes. [21:49] [UnOrthOdOx] No, that's Dominae [21:49] [UnOrthOdOx] Mercs are fun. No enemies. [21:49] [Kloreep] Yep [21:50] [Togas] The merc team is one hell of a fun concept, and a great deal of fun. [21:50] [Sharpe] LL's western core does give them a launch point against both of us - plus they already have a launch point against MAST [21:53] [Sharpe] We agree that LL will likely go offensive soon - though they may wait until they get Leo's [21:53] [UnOrthOdOx] Togas, on the MPP. [21:53] [UnOrthOdOx] There is some concern that the "hostile action" is to vague/open to interpretation. [21:53] [Togas] no problem. Let's clear it up [21:53] [Kloreep] Err, wait [21:54] [UnOrthOdOx] For instance, should we preemptively attack a stack of LL legions. [21:54] [Kloreep] Have we sent the draft to Togas? [21:54] [UnOrthOdOx] We had a draft from them in the forum. [21:54] [UnOrthOdOx] Or in chat. [21:54] [Kloreep] I thought that was Zargon's? [21:54] [Kloreep] Togas and Zargon had a chat. They discussed details, but not wording [21:54] [ZargonX] I did send it a while ago, didn't I? [21:54] [Sharpe] how about "hostile intent" , I mean a stack of 20 Legions isn't approaching a border to say hello [21:55] [UnOrthOdOx] You said you did. [21:55] [Kloreep] Heh [21:55] [UnOrthOdOx] That's what I was going off. [21:55] [UnOrthOdOx] I don't beat around the bush, guys. [21:55] [Kloreep] UnO: np, just I'm not sure if Togas has seen the draft [21:55] [Kloreep] Togas: Have you? [21:55] [UnOrthOdOx] Go right to the issues, chats move quicker. [21:55] [Togas] I'm trying to find my draft to ZargonX ... :/ [21:56] [Togas] All I've posted, for some reason, was my PM to him with general terms [21:57] [Kloreep] All right... [21:57] [Kloreep] Here's a slightly revised draft in our correspondance/discussion thread: [21:57] [Kloreep] Let it be hereby declared that the glorious Tabejin and the fantastic people of Sunshine hereby agree to a defensive alliance for the mutual benefit and protection of all. Let the agreement stand by the following conditions: [21:57] [Kloreep] -If either nation is attacked by hostile forces, the other nation shall immediately come to their military aid. [21:57] [Kloreep] -If either Tabemono or Sunshine is the aggressor in a war, the other nation is not obligated to assist. Attacking foreign troops within your own borders counts as a defensive action, and not as "aggression," and thus would activate the MPP. Additionally, attacking troops outside of one's own borders may also be considered defensive if it is a situation where a foreign power has made their intentions clear, but is attempting to cause the other side to strike first so that they will carry the burdens of having "started" a war. [21:57] [Kloreep] -In addition to military aid, neither nation shall trade with the enemy of the other during times of war unless agreed upon by the other. [21:57] [Kloreep] -The Tabejin and Sunshine people agree to not take hostile action against each other. [21:57] [Kloreep] -There shall be a border between our nations created at (to be determined soon). [21:57] [Kloreep] -This agreement shall stand in place for 40 turns from the moment of signing. [21:57] [Kloreep] Let our two nations move forward in peace and prosperity! [21:57] [Sharpe] send a Pm to Togas perhaps? [21:58] [Sharpe] it cut off at "attempting to cause the othe" [21:58] [Kloreep] Yeah, same happens to me except when I'm the poster like this case [21:58] [Kloreep] I'll just send a PM, Togas [21:59] [Togas] that looks good [21:59] [Kloreep] Oh, you did get it all? [21:59] [Sharpe] Does Sunshine have an opinion who LL will "go offensive" against ? [22:00] [UnOrthOdOx] Togas, if it can be said, have you signed a similar deal with MAST? [22:01] [Togas] we have negotiated a peace pact and MMP with MAST, but have not finalized anything yet. [22:01] [UnOrthOdOx] Good. We are concerned for them, but not in a position to be able to send much in the way of aid. [22:02] [Togas] we're torn on who LL will attack. MAST seems to think it's them. I think it's more likely they'll come after Tab, as you guys are more of a long term threat. [22:02] [Togas] LL has no iron, no horses, and pretty lousey land. [22:02] [UnOrthOdOx] And has LL contacted you for the same? ie: have you signed MPP with all? [22:02] [Togas] makes them a good victim, but not a good prize. [22:02] [UnOrthOdOx] You mean Mast has non. [22:02] [Togas] haven't talked with LL in ages. [22:02] [Togas] Sorry, yes. [22:02] [Togas] I meant MAST [22:03] [UnOrthOdOx] These northern cities could act as either a defensive barrier to keep us from aiding MAST or as a jump point to attack us. [22:03] [Sharpe] true Uno [22:03] [UnOrthOdOx] Another Q. [22:04] [UnOrthOdOx] A proposal of mine that I haven't seen these builderers move on yet. [22:04] [UnOrthOdOx] We are considering a joint effort. [22:04] [UnOrthOdOx] I like to call it the "road to paradise" [22:05] [Togas] where would the road be? [22:05] [Kloreep] It would probably be the road to peace pipes now, but road to paradise sounds better [22:05] [Sharpe] though re blocking if Sunshine would be willing to build a city NE of Sunshina (or even E) it would give both Sunshine and Tabemono access to defend MAST if necessary [22:05] [UnOrthOdOx] Well, you've settled since I came up with it, it was going to paradise, but looks like peace pipes [22:06] [UnOrthOdOx] In the west, we could defend it from LL, thuse be able to trade with both SS and MAST in the event of hostilities. [22:07] [UnOrthOdOx] Or just trade in general, but it'll be safe whereas a western path, or harbors at this point would not be [22:07] [Sharpe] talking about trade , does Sunshine have a harbor for trade? [22:07] [Togas] the trade route would be good, but if you'll want access to MAST, you'll want to build something south-east, perhaps parallel to that river that forms the base of our T [22:07] [Togas] Sunshine needs a harbor ... soon [22:08] [UnOrthOdOx] Trading with MAST would be through SS. [22:08] [Kloreep] Togas: If you can get a harbor, we just got one [22:08] [UnOrthOdOx] You two are connected. [22:08] [UnOrthOdOx] Another idea that has occured to us. [22:08] [Sharpe] Friendship city is connected , but is Friendship city now connected to the Sunshine core? [22:09] [UnOrthOdOx] With the completion of the pyramids, we would be open to sharing our bounty. [22:09] [Togas] we are connected to MAST now [22:09] [UnOrthOdOx] IE, that's allot of jungle down there... [22:09] [UnOrthOdOx] We are open to the possibility of assisting in your improving on that jungle. [22:10] [Togas] we may take you up on that offer [22:10] [UnOrthOdOx] Sun doesn't get through the canopy from what I hear...that would be a shame. [22:10] [UnOrthOdOx] Team monkey will crucify us both. [22:10] [Sharpe] being industrious is nice - too bad it was weakened in C3C (though understandable) [22:11] [Kloreep] Yes, we can share both our granaries and our industriousness with you [22:11] [UnOrthOdOx] Keep in mind, everyone, WE cannot chop something in THEIR cultural boundaries. [22:12] [UnOrthOdOx] They would have to capture the workers. [22:12] [Togas] we're in no hurry to settle that jungle anyhow [22:12] [UnOrthOdOx] We can road, mine, whatever after, but CANNOT chop. [22:12] [Kloreep] True, UnO has a point [22:12] [Kloreep] Assuming it's settled [22:12] [Kloreep] If Sunshine can hold off on some of the sites, those can be chopped around beforehand [22:12] [UnOrthOdOx] Yes, just in cultural boundaries. We could potentially prepare some sites, though. [22:12] [Sharpe] well, re Monkey, we haven't met them yet [22:12] [Kloreep] But we could work out worker trades too [22:13] [UnOrthOdOx] stupid rules. [22:14] [Togas] keep us in mind with the worker trades or sales. Our growth was somewhat stunted by our plains start. Any additional worker help would be fantastic. [22:14] [UnOrthOdOx] re: Monkey we'll just have MAST deal with them. "There was no jungle, never" [22:19] [UnOrthOdOx] Alright, folks, it's time for me to seek the pillow. [22:20] [Togas] gotcha. [22:20] [Togas] Please PM me the treaty and I'll sign it and send it back [22:20] [Sharpe] Night Uno! [22:20] [Togas] and then archive it for my team [22:20] [Togas] I'll also post a chatlog of this chat. [22:20] [UnOrthOdOx] Looks good, look forward to teaming with Sunshine morei n the future. [22:20] [Togas] [22:20] [UnOrthOdOx] All that sun will grow our food! [22:20] [Togas] if you guys would send over the new WM, we'd be very happy [22:20] [UnOrthOdOx] We don't have one yet Togas. [22:20] [UnOrthOdOx] Or, we don't have the other continent yet. [22:21] [UnOrthOdOx] I'm gonna work on that, though. Watch the public forum... [22:21] [Togas] gotcha [22:21] [UnOrthOdOx] Night all. [22:21] * UnOrthOdOx has quit IRC (Quit: ) [22:23] [Kloreep] Okay, I think that wraps this up [22:23] [Kloreep] I can PM it to you now if you'd like [22:23] [Togas] yes [22:23] [Sharpe] yeah, I think 3 of us have agreed , so that is a majority [22:24] [Kloreep] Yep [22:24] [Kloreep] And I believe Zargon would agree if he were present [22:24] [Sharpe] he may be around but might be recovering from Uno slapping him silly with that trout [22:25] [Kloreep] heh [22:25] [Kloreep] But UnO was slapping him for being inactive. [22:25] [Sharpe] he did say he would be silent due to his fingers [22:27] [Kloreep] PM sent [22:27] [Sharpe] well , getting late here, Night! [22:28] * Sharpe has left #feast [22:29] [Togas] night! [22:30] * Togas has left #feast

Sent to Togas:

quote: Let it be hereby declared that the glorious Tabejin and the fantastic people of Sunshine hereby agree to a defensive alliance for the mutual benefit and protection of all. Let the agreement stand by the following conditions: -If either nation is attacked by hostile forces, the other nation shall immediately come to their military aid. -If either Tabemono or Sunshine is the aggressor in a war, the other nation is not obligated to assist. Attacking foreign troops within your own borders counts as a defensive action, and not as "aggression," and thus would activate the MPP. Additionally, attacking troops outside of one's own borders may also be considered defensive if it is a situation where a foreign power has made their intentions clear, but is attempting to cause the other side to strike first so that they will carry the burdens of having "started" a war. -In addition to military aid, neither nation shall trade with the enemy of the other during times of war unless agreed upon by the other. -The Tabejin and Sunshine people agree to not take hostile action against each other. -There shall be a border between our nations created at the hill NE-N (9-8) of Peace Pipes, and extending E and W (4 and 6) from there. The tiles on this line may not be settled on by either team, and Sunshine may not settle tiles north of it, nor Tabemono tiles south of it. -This agreement shall stand in place for 40 turns from the moment of signing. Let our two nations move forward in peace and prosperity! Signed, Kloreep for Tabemono Signed,

Received back from Togas:

quote: signed

	07-03-2004 09:36									#82
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Chatted with Togas about FB

quote: [22:28] BTW, PTWDG II thing: [22:28] As you probably saw, our warrior is ready to go throuh Friendship City's culture radius [22:29] He's 2-2 of Friendship City currently [22:29] How should we move? 8-9-8-8? [22:29] let me check... [22:30] 8-9-8-8 will be fine [22:30] k [22:30] Thanks [22:30] just be careful on the last 8 [22:31] the tile just above that is scheduled for irrigation [22:31] Okay [22:31] hopefully the worker will be on it before you get there [22:31] actually... [22:31] a better route would be 8-9-8-7-8 [22:32] and then 8 from then on [22:32] Okay [22:32] Sounds good

	19-03-2004 05:14									#83
	Suffering from ads?

Chat with Togas on March 17th:

Reference: SS was researching Monotheism - in our last chat they said it would be done in 7 turns (Edit: Last full chat was March 1 where they mentioned 7 turns and that was in 510 or 490 bc - about 4 or 5 turns ago) - they already have Engineering of course through their free scientific tech)

quote: [Sharpe] Hey Togas, just thought Tabemono should let you know - we have been trying to get a world or territory maps exchanged with the other continent, so that is why we are not accepting the world map from Sunshine [Togas] ah! [Togas] ok, I'll post that to our forum [Sharpe] k [Sharpe] btw, seems like our LL neighbours are really pumping out settlers - they built 2 more this turn it seems [Togas] hmm [Sharpe] Sunshine might want to settle more north areas before LL takes them all (based from Tabemono's experience) [Togas] going to settle the jungle? [Sharpe] they seem to be grabbing all the territory they can get it seems [Togas] we're going to settle our NE next [Togas] it's in our agenda, just not TOO far [Sharpe] well just don't want what happened to Tabemono re LL friendly settlement to happen to someone else [Togas] are things getting tense between you guys? [Sharpe] hard to say [Sharpe] we sent out a couple of border units and they wondered what we were intending [Sharpe] and our units were still either in our borders or just on the other side of them in neutral area , meanwhile they had 2 units leaning up on our border and they were wondering what WE were doing ? LOL [Togas] [Togas] it's funny, we've gotten used to units in and around our borders [Togas] hardly think much of it anymore [Sharpe] yeah, well we have also been seeing more and more units being moved to that western area by galley so we are a little wary [Sharpe] and now they are connecting it by road [Togas] hmmm [Togas] do they chat much? [Sharpe] no, that was the first time we had heard from them in a while [Sharpe] btw, has Sunshine discussed that Feud for Monotheism proposal yet? [Togas] I think we did briefly [Togas] let me go check [Sharpe] k [Togas] hmm, nothing official [Togas] we could trade mono for feud + WM [Togas] since you're giving us the WM anyhow ... [Sharpe] would you prefer contacts ? [Togas] contacts would also be cool [Togas] feel free to sell contact with us to other teams as a part of the trade [Sharpe] actually we only have monkey to find now [Togas] you only have contact with monkey so far? [Sharpe] no, monkey is the only one we don't have contact with [Sharpe] we have found CoD and Python [Togas] nice [Togas] how many contacts would you include? [Sharpe] not sure we will have to discuss it - but I am sure we could make an arrangement to get both to you somehow if you want [Togas] excellent So we'll trade Monotheism for Feudalism + 2 contacts? [Sharpe] a bit of a bargain eh? [Sharpe] we will see - I think that is the proposal so far but nothing finalized [Togas] if it's too much, we can go to one contact [Togas] however, feel free to sell contact with us to whomever you like [Sharpe] no, personally I don't mind giving both in that trade [Sharpe] we just haven't had a formal vote on the trade yet [Togas] gotcha [Sharpe] we were originally trying to trade yours and MAST contacts for Monkey but Python and CoD don't want to do that [Sharpe] btw, do you have a harbor yet? [Togas] interesting [Togas] we need to build a harbor [Sharpe] k - we just finishing linking up Hot and Sour (our most southern city) by road and we were wondering whether we should start roading a trade route or not [Togas] how many tiles would that be? [Sharpe] hmm let me check [Sharpe] well we are assuming that you are probably roading your iron soon [Togas] yep [Togas] I'd like to see a harbor go up soon, but our domestic guy doesn't seem to have that as his priority at the moment [Sharpe] there is 3 squares between us and we have 1 square to road in our city [Togas] 3 squares isn't bad at all [Sharpe] it is if it is jungle or hills [Togas] we could road up to the river [Sharpe] hills are slightly faster for roading I think [Sharpe] than jungle though I am not certain re that [Togas] anyhow, I'm going to post and demand we start a harbor soon, but until then, it would be wise of us to get a Sunshine-Tabemono road into gear [Sharpe] k [Sharpe] admittedly it was easier for us with our half price harbors [Togas] [TogasDINNER] bbl, need to eat [Sharpe] k [Sharpe] heading offline soon myself

	22-03-2004 09:52									#84
	Got spare money?

quote: Start of #table buffer: Sun Mar 21 21:48:48 2004 * Now talking in #table * Togas has joined #table * Retrieving #table info... * UnOrthOdOx sets mode: +k bbqribs * Kloreep|idle has joined #table [UnOrthOdOx] Don't know if you've seen the save yet this time around or not. * Sharpe has joined #table [UnOrthOdOx] I'm keeping this brief, but we have given you contact to both Python and Cake or Death. [Togas] saw it last turn [Togas] [UnOrthOdOx] We will be sending an updated map along next turn as well. [Togas] what the story on those guys? [UnOrthOdOx] Part of this deal, though, means we cannot trade you Monkey contact. [Togas] how bizzare [UnOrthOdOx] But, you will be getting a full map of their entire island so can make that contact yourself. [UnOrthOdOx] The other island no longer has a single source of Iron. [Togas] I'm sure one of them will try to sell it to us [Togas] ?? [Togas] they don't have iron?? [UnOrthOdOx] nope. [Togas] wow [Togas] oughta send LL over there to conquer them [Sharpe] and only 2 horses , one of which is on an island [Togas] we're swimming in resources over here [Sharpe] for now [UnOrthOdOx] They have been all together difficult reguarding maps and contacts until most recently. [UnOrthOdOx] Sorry for lack of updates, but I've been pressing Arrian for both and it finally paid off. [UnOrthOdOx] Provided the no monkey contact, that is. [Togas] why that condition? [Togas] do they not want Monkey to trade with others, or do they want to sell Monkey themselves? [UnOrthOdOx] I'm not allowed to tell that either. [Togas] bizzare [UnOrthOdOx] They have their reasons. [Togas] what do you think of their situation? Are they crowded over there? [Sharpe] my suggestion would be : guess [UnOrthOdOx] Not TOO crowded IMO, there is certainly room for growth for some teams, but not others. [UnOrthOdOx] Lots of jungle over there too, ironically [UnOrthOdOx] You'll see that soon. [Togas] gotcha [Sharpe] err what? [UnOrthOdOx] ? [Togas] have you played the save yet? [UnOrthOdOx] I'm not sure, just got on. [UnOrthOdOx] sharpe, we played? [Togas] your warrior in our territory. He needs to move 4, then move 8 the rest of the way out [Sharpe] k thanks [Sharpe] we played 410 [Kloreep|idle] You're the last one to play, Togas [UnOrthOdOx] So, it'll be 400 we'll send the new map. [Kloreep|idle] It still needs to go around the other 4 teams back to us [UnOrthOdOx] Sorry, I wasn't around to issue that order for 410. [Togas] gotcha * Kloreep|idle is now known as Kloreep [UnOrthOdOx] So, we're set for a Monotheism/Feudal trade, right? [UnOrthOdOx] I've been a little behind on that negotiation. [Togas] right [Togas] we'll have mono in 2 turns [UnOrthOdOx] Cool, I think that's it. Watch the public forum, I'll have a nice surprise starting tomorrow morning, and Teusday night will probably have a BIG surprise. [Sharpe] sorry to hear that , hope you all avoid the hospital for that [Togas] LOL [UnOrthOdOx] So, I'm off to bed then guys, Sharpe, you need to join us mercs [UnOrthOdOx] Kloreep, can you post the log? [Togas] agreed [UnOrthOdOx] I'll get it nevermind. [UnOrthOdOx] Gnight, have fun in the c3c ISDG save guys. [UnOrthOdOx] copy me anything interesting for the paper. [Sharpe] it might be an idea to have another chat after Sunshine looks at the new map [UnOrthOdOx] I may just beat the save to that... [UnOrthOdOx] Teusday night, that maps' going to be very public. [Togas] After we see the map, we should have another chat [Togas] also, should we NOT give this map to MAST? [Togas] we've been trading them WM every now and then for barb hunting [UnOrthOdOx] I'll be giving it to them as well. [Togas] ok [Sharpe] we have a suspicion that LL may already have the map [UnOrthOdOx] We traded "your" map, it's only fair. [Sharpe] but we will try to find that out for sure ... [Togas] [UnOrthOdOx] Yes, I have many PM's for the morning. [UnOrthOdOx] Alright, it's really bedtime. End of #table buffer Sun Mar 21 21:48:48 2004

	06-04-2004 23:24									#85
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: quote: Unorthodox, What ever happened with the maps and contacts with the other civs? Can you fill us in and let us know what's going down over there? Are they exterminating the Monkeys??? --Togas D@mn it, I've posted it in the next turn orders thread, in the correspondance threads. I guess I'm gonna have to kick some builder @sses then, so now I just made a NEW thread: quote: Important:Now, I've posted this in the orders thread, and in various Foreign correspondance threads. Apparantly some of you turnplayers haven't seen it yet though? NEXT TURN! GIFT MAPS TO: Monkey, Sunshine, MAST. GIFT CONTACT WITH COD AND PYTON TO: Sunshine, MAST. Forgive if this is a double or triple PM Poly seems to be acting up on me. As for the other continent, yes, Python and CoD are at war with Monkey. We don't know how it is going, though. Since neither have Iron and Monkeys have Neumidian Mercs. Monkeys asked us to send Military aid, but I have informed them that is just not possible at present time due to both logistical and political reasons. I'm going to be straight up here. TEAM TABEMONO has not made any decision on this yet, but I PERSONALLY will not be standing for any form of city gifting with the purpose of saving a civ. FYI. - UnOrthOdOx

	07-04-2004 07:53									#86
	Support Apolyton

quote: [20:34] * Togas has joined #middleagesfeast [20:34] [Togas] what's new? [20:34] [Sharpe] Hi [20:34] [Kloreep] We opened up the save and saw your offer of Mono [20:35] [Kloreep] Mono for Feud+contacts was what we previously discussed, I believe [20:35] [Togas] do you guys have Feud yet? [20:35] [Kloreep] That looks good to us, but we'd like to include a NTA [20:35] [Togas] no problem [20:35] [Togas] let's do a mutual NTA for the techs [20:36] [Kloreep] For how long? [20:36] [Togas] 20 turns [20:36] [Kloreep] [20:36] [Sharpe] great minds think alike [20:36] * Kloreep sets mode: +o Togas [20:36] [Togas] of course, 20 turns is pretty much the same as no trades period [20:37] [Kloreep] Okay, agreed on 20 turns? [20:37] [Togas] agreed [20:37] [Kloreep] k [20:38] [Sharpe] we will be sending Sunshine the world map this turn too [20:38] [Kloreep] Feud+contacts and also WM coming your way [20:38] [Sharpe] sorry for missing that last turn - mix up in communication [20:38] [Togas] excellent [20:38] [Togas] I'll let my team know [20:39] [Sharpe] if you can trade your map back , so that we can both see the barb camps that would be useful of course [20:39] [Togas] we will [20:40] [Togas] will you guys be offering those to us accepted? [20:40] [Kloreep] Togas: Yes [20:40] [Togas] good [20:40] [Kloreep] All on the same table as your offer of Mono [20:40] [Togas] [20:40] [Sharpe] yeah, only fair since we missed it last turn [20:42] [Sharpe] what are you planning on researching next btw? [20:42] [Togas] theology [20:42] [Togas] we'll then move into Education [20:42] [Sharpe] hehe, I should have guessed that - without Feud you couldn't have done anything else [20:42] [Togas] [20:43] [Togas] we're looking forward to checking out the new map [20:44] [Sharpe] yeah, it is interesting [20:44] [Sharpe] how are things with the other civs these days btw? [20:45] [Togas] MAST seems fairly inactive [20:46] [Sharpe] yeah, just OPD it seems [20:46] [Togas] and we're somewhat inactive ourselves. Mostly HarryH and I posting [20:46] [Sharpe] same here, Zargon and Kloreep have both been away recently - and Unortho is really getting into that new Sacred game it seems [20:47] [Togas] great... [20:47] [Togas] I wonder if the Monkey wars overseas will raise activity [20:47] [Rhothaerill] We can hope. [20:47] [Sharpe] still I think we are getting back up to speed - was getting a little dull with Monkey taking so long with their turn [20:47] [Kloreep] UnO was going to post the WM [20:47] [Togas] to the public forum? [20:47] [Kloreep] That might bag us a news article and some new members [20:48] [Kloreep] Togas: Yep [20:48] [Togas] and a lot of discussion too [20:48] [Sharpe] yeah, lots of discussion [20:49] [Sharpe] I didn't realize you knew about the Monkey Wars btw [20:49] [Togas] We guessed [20:49] [Togas] turns taking a long time, plus the prohibition of trading contact w/ monkey [20:49] [Sharpe] yeah, a 3 day turn usually indicates that [20:52] [Sharpe] yeah, we thought the no-trade contact re Monkey would be a rather giant clue [20:53] [Togas] oh, it was [20:53] [Sharpe] any word on a harbor or did we agree on a trade road yet? [20:53] [Togas] At the rate that things are being slowly built ... a road would probably be faster [20:54] [Togas] I want a harbor [20:54] [Togas] but harryh has workers and granary and library and probably a temple as well in the queue before it [20:54] [Sharpe] btw, have you seen any LL units patrolling near your eastern borders? [20:54] [Togas] our eastern border meets up with MAST, but they have 2 warriors to the north of us in the jungle [20:55] [Sharpe] yeah, we have seen them near us too [20:55] [Sharpe] east of Hot & Sour Soup [20:55] [Togas] they're keeping 'tabs' on you. [20:56] [Sharpe] maybe - they could be also using them to spy for any settlers heading that way - using those units as a way of "claiming" that territory - even if it is mostly jungle [20:57] [Togas] if they want to keep expanding .... the jungle is all they have left. [20:57] [Togas] Frankly, I think they're large enough [20:58] [Sharpe] yeah, but I was noticing that if they claimed that land they would have borders with all of us - Tabemono, Sunshine and MAST [20:58] [Togas] wait a sec! [20:58] [Togas] [20:58] [Togas] HarryH set Funkytown to build Harbor! [20:59] [Sharpe] ah! [20:59] [Kloreep] When will it be finished? [20:59] [Togas] I guess he decided to listen to me [20:59] [Togas] can't tell. Anarchy [20:59] [Kloreep] Ah [20:59] [Sharpe] a road still wouldn't be a bad idea in addition to a harbor though [20:59] [Kloreep] You mean you don't have a republic sim going? [21:00] [Sharpe] shh don't give away our secrets [21:00] [Togas] I sure don't. I have no sim knowledge whatsoever [21:00] [Togas] Harry may have something, but I doubt it. [21:02] [Sharpe] re LL admittedly their "tail" territory near us looks silly [21:03] [Togas] they've built all the way up to your doorstep [21:04] [Sharpe] yeah, and they have another settler in the area, but we don't know where it went [21:04] [Sharpe] we last saw it north of Leonor [21:04] [Togas] hrm... [21:06] [Sharpe] they are also building a road from their chokepoint towards our border - they only have from Leonor to Perla to go [21:06] [Togas] if there's going to be a major war on our continent, it's going to be you guys and LL [21:07] [Togas] MAST has no iron and no horses and we're peacenick builders [21:07] [Sharpe] maybe [21:07] [Sharpe] we have our fair share of builders too (a lot of Legos ) [21:08] [Sharpe] Unortho constantly teases us about it [21:09] [Kloreep] Our warrior in your territory just keeps moving 8, right? [21:10] [Togas] right [21:10] [Togas] when you get up into the mountains, you'll want to move 7 [21:10] [Kloreep] Yeah [21:11] [Togas] unless, of course, you want to go visit LL's "tail" territory [21:11] [Kloreep] But 8 till we're out of Sunshine's territory [21:14] [Sharpe] hmm, we see a Suntan [21:31] * Togas is now known as TogasDINNER

	11-04-2004 01:49									#87
	Increase the size of your Attachments

PM to Togas

quote: Greetings Togas, As you already know, Team Tabemono screwed up and accidentally sent you contact with Monkey this past turn. As you may also know, the reason it was a mistake to send it was because we have a non-interference pact with Cake or Death in which Team Tabemono was not going to interfere with the war on the other continent. CoD had asked us not to send out contact until they could have a chance to talk with the teams on our continent to sign the same pact. Our mistake has unfortunately forced CoD's hand so we now implore you to contact Arrian or Cort Haus from their team to discuss the non-interference pact with them. Regards, Rhoth

	12-04-2004 12:04									#88
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

PM from Togas. I haven't responded yet. It would be very interesting if it's true. I find it unlikely though since Python didn't want to trade in the first place.

quote: Rhoth, According to our turn report, PYTHON sent us contact with Monkey, not Tabemono. If CoD wishes to speak to us about some sort non-interference pact, they may do so, however we will very clearly tell them that Tabemono did notsend us contact. Unless, of course, the turnreport is in error. For some reason I have not been receiving the saves so I cannot verify this. I'm going to ask HarryH about it, though, and get back to you. --Togas

	20-04-2004 07:35									#89
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Start of Togas buffer: Mon Apr 19 20:31:55 2004 Session Ident: Togas (Togas@c-66-229-68-28.we.client2.attbi.com) [Togas] can I ask you about Tabemono stuff? [Togas] OPD is telling us that you want them to research Feudalism [Togas] We were telling them to research Invention [Togas] we told them to research invention months ago, after we traded them Engineering [UnOrthOdOx] Ok, we were planning on researching it, that is why. [Togas] why aren't you guys going for feud? [UnOrthOdOx] Plus, Feudalism for Chiv (we are asking them for chiv) is an equal trade. [UnOrthOdOx] Or so the tech guys are telling me. [UnOrthOdOx] We have Feudalism, we need Chiv. [Togas] We were going to trade Mono for Invention [Togas] you guys already have invention [Togas] I mean, Mono [Togas] do we have Theo for Invention lined up? [Togas] maybe we'll give Mono to MAST and they'll give us Feud whenver they get it. [UnOrthOdOx] That was the basic thinking was that Invention for Theo would be more likely for you. [UnOrthOdOx] For you to want. [UnOrthOdOx] We're trying to trade Feudalism to MAST for Chiv when they get it, yes. [Togas] maybe we'll do the same, just seems like a damn good deal for MAST [UnOrthOdOx] Then, we trade Invention to you for Theology [Togas] they get Mono and Feud for free [Togas] then they get Chiv as well [UnOrthOdOx] I thought the same thing, I'm just doing what the tech folks tell me. [Togas] however, MAST will still be behind [Togas] no point in them researching Theo or Invention [Togas] Chiv is a tech tree dead end [Togas] heck, I guess we'll go along with it. [Togas] I'll post it to my team [UnOrthOdOx] There's what we wanted to avoid I believe. [UnOrthOdOx] (the dead end) [Togas] good point End of Togas buffer Mon Apr 19 20:31:55 2004

	25-05-2004 07:29									#90
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Tentatively arranged a chat with Togas for either Wednesday or Thursday (May 26/27th)