25-09-2003 09:55									#1
	Team Sunshine: Corospondance Suffering from ads?

Ok, had the first official chat with Togas of Sunshine tonight. Some good info, and some good possibilities to build on.

Key points:

-They only have 9 gold, hence we won't be getting 30 gold out of the trade. However, the trade plus an IOU for a future trade swayed in our benefit was a reasonable possibility. I'd personally be ok with this, as I don't think we'll be warring with them anytime soon, so future trades are very likely.
-They have contact with MAST, who is due East of them.
-They don't really know how far away we are, and I didn't give them any clues otherwise

	25-09-2003 10:06									#2
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I support the IOU deal. It shows a little trust, but is small enough that it won't hurt much if they never follow through.

Since they have contact with MAST, we should seek a mutual Non-Disclosure Agreement. For 20 turns perhaps? I think that gives us about 16 turns to contact MAST after we build a warrior for SE exploration.

	25-09-2003 10:40									#3
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The IOU deal is fine with me, and I think Kloreep has a good point with the NDA. Go for it.

	29-09-2003 23:51									#4
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Received this from Togas:

quote: Sunshine - Tabemono ZargonX, With all of the business with ISDG lately, things have been very quiet and very inactive over in the land of the sun. I'd like to propose this very simple treaty to you and your people. We can make it more involved later, if you want, but I think this should do for now. NAP between Team Sunshine and Team Tabemono: Both parties agree to the following: A state of peace and friendship exists between our teams. There will be no war, conflict, or illegal entry into the cultural borders of either team. We will try to solve our difference (when and if they arise) through a peaceful discussion and pledge to refrain from violence unless there is absolutely no other option. We may tell other parties that we have signed this agreement. This agreement shall last until turn 75. It can be renewed or redone at any time before that. Signed and agreed to by, Togas, Guru and Sunshine Leader. Signed and agreed to by,

Thoughts? Opinions?

	29-09-2003 23:53									#5
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Works for me, but maybe add something to the response having to do with food. Maybe talk about an exchange of our chef services for their sunshine to grow our crops, etc.

	30-09-2003 03:31									#6
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We have enough food in our own borders for now; our current goal is peaceful food-pumped expansion. So why not? Let peace feast!

	30-09-2003 21:42									#7
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Unless anyone objects by the end of today, I'll send this back to Sunshine with our approval.

	30-09-2003 22:00									#8
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No objection from me.

	30-09-2003 22:00									#9
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No objections. We should question them about any food resources they may have, see, know about, etc. along with any recipies they may want to exchange.

	30-09-2003 22:25									#10
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quote: Originally posted by GodKing No objections. We should question them about any food resources they may have, see, know about, etc. along with any recipies they may want to exchange.

Agreed. We still lack some important resources like Horses, Fish, Whale, Wines, Spices, etc.

	02-10-2003 08:58									#11
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No spices??

Ptui! No wonder this beef was so bland ....... thank the cooking gods we have salt at least

	02-10-2003 09:00									#12
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Welcome to the table Maki! You should know many of us already (at least the active members) from either the C3DG or AUSG101.

	02-10-2003 10:32									#13
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NAP agreement signed and passed on to Sunshine. With the stipulation that they provide sunlight, we'll provide crops. Including special "crops" for them

	02-10-2003 10:34									#14
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Oh, and more free info from Togas:

-Latin Lover is in our area as well. He said they just encountered them, and that they are north of MAST. As MAST is east of them, that means we'll probably run into LL first with Gourmand. Also, Sunshine already has IW, and is working on writing. We should switch to something else.

	02-10-2003 20:45									#15
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Hmm, I think this makes eastern city expansion and exploration a priority.

	02-10-2003 22:09									#16
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quote: Originally posted by ZargonX Oh, and more free info from Togas: -Latin Lover is in our area as well. He said they just encountered them, and that they are north of MAST. As MAST is east of them, that means we'll probably run into LL first with Gourmand.

Better than MAST as an ancient neighbor. Well, perhaps... they got a free city, so they must be fairly powerful. All depends on their aggressiveness.

quote: Also, Sunshine already has IW, and is working on writing. We should switch to something else.

Well, we're behind the times. What's left? Myst? HBR? I'm not too keen on HBR, as we have no idea where to get Horses, and if we do, we can build some Chariots for upgrade.

	03-10-2003 01:49									#17
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LL is probably the most active member / team here. Watch out for them. They can and will be ruthless. Just look at their member list.

Just remember, we set this team up to be warmongering. We need to plan on making war ASAP, and taking whatever food we may need for our bountiful bellies.

	03-10-2003 02:40									#18
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You mean we're warmongers...... cool war and food. All the pleasures of the world in one.
Aggie

	19-10-2003 05:02									#19
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Private chatted with BF on poly IRC as we need to get the Iron ball rolling.

quote: Kloreep> Mind if I discuss PTWDG II? BigFree> sure BigFree> whats up Kloreep> You were putting IW on the table for a while BigFree> yes BigFree> you are whom now? BigFree> Tabemono Kloreep> Yeah, Tabemono, sorry Kloreep> We're interested, but out of tech to give you BigFree> ok, just chekng BigFree> ok, then lets cordinate BigFree> How soon will you have rocketry Kloreep> lol BigFree> damn Kloreep> Could we buy it from you? BigFree> I was counting on that tech form you BigFree> oh well BigFree> what are you researching now? Kloreep> Mysticism Kloreep> Do you guys have that yet? BigFree> hmm not sure BigFree> I have to check BigFree> we are doing writing now BigFree> we have Myst Kloreep> Two quetions (which I know you won't be able to answer right now): We seem to be a little behind the curve... could we buy IW with gold? If so, how much? BigFree> not sure about that BigFree> I think tech for tech at this point is the best right now BigFree> but we can give good deals BigFree> like for Math perhaps Kloreep> That's a possibility. BigFree> do you have TW? Kloreep> Though we'd lose our Myst research. BigFree> Hmm Kloreep> TW? Kloreep> You mean IW? BigFree> maybe we can swing a deal for Myst and Writing for Math plus gold BigFree> but not much gold BigFree> Thw Wheel Kloreep> Yeah Kloreep> I think we traded it to you guys actually BigFree> lol BigFree> ok BigFree> maybe we can swing a deal for Myst and Writing for Math plus gold Kloreep> Hmm, what about Myst and IW for Math and gold? BigFree> that couls work as well BigFree> I would have to check of course Kloreep> Of course BigFree> cool Kloreep> Like I said, I just want to get talks rolling BigFree> I will post this log BigFree> Kloreep> Okay, so will I. BigFree> Food and Sun go so well together, we should schedule a picnic Kloreep> Yep, without the sun there wouldn't be food BigFree> lol BigFree> so true Kloreep> brb BigFree> k Kloreep> back BigFree> k Kloreep> I think we're pretty much done anyway BigFree> sure BigFree> give it a few days in the forums BigFree> then i will get back to you Kloreep> Okay

	21-10-2003 05:45									#20
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Chatted with BF again today since our turn is almost here.

quote: Kloreep> Hi Kloreep> Tabemono PTWDG II stuff again BigFree> hi Kloreep> Any news on the tech trade front? BigFree> no, not yet BigFree> only one peerson responded to my post BigFree> Kloreep> BigFree> It was a slow weekend Kloreep> Any idea on when you will be able to negotiate something? BigFree> this week sometime Kloreep> k Kloreep> Thanks

	23-10-2003 05:15									#21
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From Bigfree:

quote: We, the Sunshine people, hereby offer the Tabemono people the following trade: We offer Myst + IW for Math + 20 gold. We realize this is a good deal for Tabemono and we are setting our two teams up good continuing relations. May there always be Sun to grow the food.

Generous, right. They owe us 1 beaker point, so this is only 4 gold off a straight commerce trade. But considering they didn't mention that IOU, perhaps this means it wouldn't be taken into account here?

Anyway, I'm satisfied with this deal.

	25-10-2003 01:37									#22
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Chatted with BigFree yet again to clear up the IOU

quote: [15:30] Kloreep> Hi [15:31] Kloreep> You there? [15:31] Kloreep> I just have a short PTWDG II question [15:31] BigFree> yo [15:32] Kloreep> Re: the Math for IW+Myst deal, were you considering the 1 beaker point difference in our last deal included in this one or not? [15:32] * BigFree has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [15:33] Kloreep> [15:32] Re: the Math for IW+Myst deal, were you considering the 1 beaker point difference in our last deal included in this one or not? [15:34] BigFree> Not sure [15:34] BigFree> The others came up with this deal [15:34] BigFree> did you owe us one? [15:34] BigFree> or they other way [15:35] Kloreep> I think you owed us 1 beaker point [15:35] BigFree> ok [15:35] BigFree> from what deal [15:35] Kloreep> It's not necessarily critical it's included in this deal, I just wanted to clarify. [15:35] Kloreep> We traded some techs when we first met [15:36] Kloreep> We gave Wheel and Masonry IIRC [15:36] BigFree> I think they may have inclusded it, from what I can read [15:36] Kloreep> Okay [15:36] BigFree> Do you guys feel its not favorable? [15:36] Kloreep> So it's to be repayed under this deal if signed? [15:37] BigFree> yes, I believe so [15:37] Kloreep> Okay, thanks [15:38] BigFree> Do you guys feel its not favorable? [15:38] Kloreep> There hasn't been much discussion yet [15:38] BigFree> ah [15:38] Kloreep> Our forum isn't all that active either [15:38] BigFree> let me know, I can tell them to redo the deal [15:39] Kloreep> Okay, we'll get back to you [15:39] BigFree> maybe cut out some gold

	26-10-2003 08:27									#23
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Now that we've gotten Mysticism from Sunshine, we must, err, "regretfully" inform them we're not as hard up on tech anymore and must renegotiate this deal.

In chat, we were thinking we should offer Math and HBR on our side (we would research HBR after Math) in exchange for Iron Working and Writing on their side. This sounds good to me, though I'd like to hear what Sunshine plans to research after Writing; if they're going for Republic, I think it would be better to help them with that (researching either CoL or Philosophy, whichever they don't pick) than to research HBR.

	26-10-2003 10:35									#24
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I'm not sure we want to tie ourselves to trading two techs apiece right now. Look how quickly our last possible deal collapsed. If we find LL soon and they have things to trade we might regret having deals already done for far in the future.

However, if we decide to tie ourselves to two tech deals, then I definitely think we should see whether they head straight for Republic. If we can piggyback into that tech early that would be great!

	27-10-2003 02:32									#25
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Good point about LL.

Draft for a PM to Sunshine (not sure who we would send it to; BigFree, E_T, and Ruby Maser are listed as turnplayers)

quote: Greetings to our sunny friends. We recently made contact with the MAST team and signed a deal with them for Mysticism. As such, we must negotiate another deal. Tabemono proposes we simply trade Math on our side for Iron Working on yours and add two more tech point IOUs on your side. Also, what are you planning on researching after Writing? We're interested in the The Republic. If that's your goal, perhaps we can work out a cooperation deal, one team researching CoL and the other Philosophy.

	27-10-2003 03:06									#26
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Togas has been playing several turns lately so I'd include him too.

Maybe gussy it up a little. "We have recently made the acquaintance of the MAST team and in an effort to further relations between teams we have received mysticism from them. We regret we will have to renogiate our previous terms for the deal. Tabemono proposes..." etc.

Other than that, sounds good.

	27-10-2003 03:20									#27
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Mark II

quote: Greetings to our sunny friends. We recently made contact with the MAST team and signed a deal with them for Mysticism. As such, we regretfully must negotiate a different deal without Mysticism. Tabemono proposes we simply trade Math on our side for Iron Working on yours and add two more tech point IOUs on your side. Also, what are you planning on researching after Writing? We're interested in the The Republic. If that's your goal, perhaps we can work out a cooperation deal, one team researching CoL and the other Philosophy.

	27-10-2003 03:22									#28
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Sounds fine to me. The relationship furthering stuff I proposed was more in the line of fluff.

	27-10-2003 03:38									#29
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I just thought it might not be interpreted well; we don't regret trading for Myst, and I think Sunshine will realize that.

Also, if we chat with Sunshine, I'd like to ask them why they haven't told MAST about LL. Do you think that would be okay to bring up?

	27-10-2003 03:43									#30
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Actually the regret I mentioned was that we would have to renogiate a deal with Sunshine that had been already worked out, but I guess that didn't come across as well.

Re: talking with them about why they didn't tell MAST about LL, I'm not sure yet. I'm leaning toward not asking them, but I don't know.