28-05-2004 06:20									#91
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Message from Togas re chat tonight (Thursday)

quote: Tabemono & Sunshine Let's chat tonight. Trip will be available and HarryH will be available AFTER 8pm PDT. I should be available throughout, however I'll be somewhat distracted by the Lakers game until 8-9pm PDT. --Togas

I should be around briefly after 8pm PDT (11pm EST, 10pm CST IIRC), but not for very long, so hopefully one or more of the rest of the team can make it.

	02-06-2004 18:53									#92
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Hey, what happened with our alliance planning? We better keep on that if we want to move forward with our other plans...

	02-06-2004 23:32									#93
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Speaking of which, where's the log of the Togas chats? I found my little portion after Sharpe left, but I get the feeling Sharpe's chat is the meatiest.

quote: [23:29] [Togas] they sure did [23:29] [Kloreep] Hi [23:29] [ZargonX] I'll take that as a yes [23:29] [Togas] [23:30] [Togas] anything you guys want to discuss? [23:31] * ZargonX sets mode: +o Kloreep [23:31] * ZargonX sets mode: +o Togas [23:32] [ZargonX] Where did you and Sharpe leave off, exactly? [23:32] [Togas] I think the only major think that was mentioned was the proposal for an alliance [23:33] [Togas] and I'm going to post a thread about that in my team's forum to see what they think [23:33] [ZargonX] excellent [23:33] [ZargonX] if they are open to the idea, we can write up some formal items [23:33] [Togas] One thing I'm sure they'll want to know is if you guys plan on starting up a war soon [23:34] [ZargonX] we don't start wars; we start meals [23:35] [Togas] ahh... [23:35] [Togas] do you guys plan on feeding on LL's jungle land? [23:35] [ZargonX] but, seriously, situations are in flux right now [23:35] [Togas] As you know, our concept is relatively passive [23:36] [ZargonX] of course [23:37] [ZargonX] we would not drag you into a conflict you wouldn't want to be involved in [23:37] [Togas] We're not out to conquer anyone, but we'll still be pratical about military defenses [23:37] [ZargonX] even if we were allied, we would understand if you wouldn't wish to break your neutraility [23:38] [Togas] [23:38] [ZargonX] anyway, I've got to head to bed as well [23:39] [ZargonX] I'll leave things in Kloreep's capable hands [23:39] [ZargonX] g'night! [23:39] [Kloreep] Night [23:39] [Togas] night! [23:39] * ZargonX has left #buffet (Leaving) [23:42] [Kloreep] Sorry, finishing a PBEM [23:45] [Kloreep] Okay, done [23:46] [Kloreep] How's your expansion going? [23:47] [Togas] we're kicking it up a notch [23:47] [Kloreep] Yeah, you seem to have the north well settled now [23:47] [Kloreep] Still a ways to go in the south, though [23:47] [Togas] we're going to try to fill in the south now [23:48] [Togas] there's some good land way down there. Better than what we started with, but to get it and make it useful is going to take us perhaps 50+ turns [23:57] [Kloreep] Heh [23:57] [Kloreep] Not much more to talk about, I guess [23:58] [Kloreep] Anything you want to discuss? [00:00] [Togas] nothing really going on with us. We're just busy with our own discussions of future settlement plans and cores and workers and things

	03-06-2004 00:02									#94
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Oops! You're right , I completely forgot to post it....

Here it is (from the May 27th chat I had with Togas)

quote: [Sharpe] Hi [Togas] hello [Sharpe] Not many are around ATM I see [Togas] yeah. HarryH was going to try to get online around 9pm pacific ... and Trip said he'd be online "all night" [Sharpe] lol, he hasn't been here in the 3 hours I have been here [Sharpe] not once [Togas] [Togas] anything we can hash out? [Sharpe] unfortunately with Zargon and I in the eastern time zone , it is fairly late here (Zargon usually is around for another 30-45 minutes usually) [Sharpe] not sure [Togas] you guys have any questions? [Sharpe] hmm, k - we feel that our relations have been good so far - would Sunshine be willing to upgrade our defensive pact into a full alliance? [Togas] we just might [Togas] I'll ask 'em [Sharpe] If so, we may have a lot more to talk about vis a vis the continental situation [Togas] Does your team have a harbor? [Sharpe] yes [Togas] I'm fairly sure we built one too ... but I don't think we're doing any lux trading [Sharpe] hmm, last turn I checked, we still couldn't trade with Sunshine - odd [Togas] I'm fairly sure we have a clear sealane. I'm going to open the save now and check. [Sharpe] k [Togas] ... hrm [Sharpe] our harbor is in Chop Suey [Togas] my save is old, but we were building a harbor in funky town [Togas] I'm going to check the turnthread [Sharpe] Zargon wondered if the west coastline was clear or not [Togas] Yeah, we rushed a harbor in funky town [Togas] so we should be able to trade by now unless our coastline isn't fully cleared [Togas] the last save I have is 230bc, and the coastline IS clear on this one [Sharpe] hmm [Sharpe] I guess your harbor may not be complete yet then - there is no other explanation if we can't trade [Sharpe] unless of course that we CAN trade and nobody has noticed [Togas] I think we can and no one's noticed [Togas] however, we may not have any excess luxes ... we only have 1 extra incense [Sharpe] we have an incense already actually [Togas] need to see if harry traded it to MAST. I don't think he did, but I'd better check [Togas] ah [Togas] that's probably why we're not trading [Sharpe] do you guys have your spices and fur linked up? [Togas] wait a sec! There is some black up there [Sharpe] up near us? [Togas] if you go north of fried rice [Togas] and then 9 of that game [Sharpe] hmm [Togas] and another bit to the west of that :/ [Sharpe] k time to get those cleared [Togas] that'll clean it up for the future [Sharpe] yeah [Togas] we could use some spices [Sharpe] until you link up your own , yeah [Sharpe] but I think that one is in your south IIRC [Togas] we have one in the south that's somewhat far away [Togas] we hope to link it eventually, but it's in the heart of barb territory [Sharpe] ah [Togas] when will LL and Tabemono go head to head? [Sharpe] good question [Sharpe] not sure - but if they get a FP up in their 2nd core , they may be difficult to stop [Togas] where do you think their 2nd core will be? [Sharpe] if it were me, Lolita or a little further west [Togas] those western cities have to be immensely corrupt [Togas] almost no real use to them [Sharpe] now yes - but with a FP they will be very useful [Togas] going to be hard to build one there from scratch [Sharpe] in Lego we used a courthouse to make it easier - plus don't forget , they are commercial [Sharpe] plus right now - their far western cities may be corrupt, but absolutely necessary for their spices and only horse source [Togas] ah, I didn't realize that it was their only horse source... [Togas] makes it rather strategic [Sharpe] yep [Sharpe] looks as though Zargon and Kloreep have arrived back [Togas] yep [Togas] they want to chat? [Sharpe] yeah, Zargon is setting up a room, but I have to go , 12:30 here [Sharpe] Night! [Togas] later!

Btw, I have checked and we CAN trade with Sunshine, but don't have anything to trade - however, our trade deal for the luxes with MAST ends in 11 turns (and their payment ends in 15 turns) so we may be able to trade them spices if that is part of an alliance agreement(besides I suspect that we plan on taking the LL spices eventually anyhow ).

	03-06-2004 06:34									#95
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quote: yeah, it looks positive. The two comments I got in the thread were both in favor nothing official yet, but we're not all that official anyhow 2 comments? how many on your team these days? I guess Trip isn't taking over necessarily with him losing Internet for a while in his move he hasn't said anything just harry and bigfree posted and the 4 of us are, well, about it right now sounds good that it is positive so far though if you guys want to write something up, I think we can ratify it pretty easily k, will work on something then

Sounds as though we should write something up then and we will have Sunshine on board...

	03-06-2004 07:13									#96
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Let's do it

	04-06-2004 21:04									#97
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Why do I get the feeling you are all looking at me?

Sorry, things are messy right now with the house situation. No can do till next week sometime at the earliest.

	05-06-2004 04:21									#98
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How come we haven't killed off these hippy do gooders yet? Dang, guess I might want to pay attention to this game and get some war efforts started.

	20-06-2004 17:13									#99
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Togas decided to whip up a written treaty - the truth is most of us have been too busy to do it

quote: Sunshine & Tabemono Treaty I decided to whip up something for our alliance. The following is a draft: Sunshine & Tabemono Friendship Agreement Team Sunshine and Team Tabemono happily agree to the following: 1) We are allies. 2) In the spirit of our alliance, we will not practice, perform, or condone any hostile action against our ally. 3) We will trade and cooperate in all matters. 4) We will peacefully coexist and resolve any future settlement or border disputes. 5) We will inform each other before undertaking any hostile acts against 3rd parties. 6) We will protect each other from agression and destruction from any 3rd parties. 7) Team Sunshine, being pacifists and disinclined towards war, may choose not to participate in any wars of agression towards any 3rd party. Should Tabemono start a war, Team Sunshine may choose not to participate, even if Tabemono should later come under attack. However, should another team start a war with Tabemono, Sunshine will do everything in it's power to protect its good friend and ally. Hereby agreed to by: (Tabemono) (Sunshine)

We will almost certainly have to get a rewording on point 7 more to our liking - looks as though Sunshine is trying to avoid any offensive wars by us - though if we can get MAST on board re the LL war - it won't matter as much

	20-06-2004 21:20									#100
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Even if we don't get Sunshine on board in offensive wars, I read this treaty as stating they would stay out of wars we start - not just not supporting us, but also not supporting the other side, as that would clearly be hostile. That in itself is something.

Also, the wording on 7 is odd. Why should we not get the same protection? They are not held to their pacifism by this treaty, so the clause should be changed to more general wording.

	21-06-2004 02:07									#101
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I'd say clean up provision 7, and we've got something to go with.

	23-06-2004 09:50									#102
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Hey, let's get this settled with them quickly so we can start planning a war

	23-06-2004 11:14									#103
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Sounds good.

	24-06-2004 00:12									#104
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grumble grumble....

Come now my Lethargic Looters, lets engage in some piratical proceedings

er...

um..

wrong team there...

quote: Sunshine & Tabemono Treaty I decided to whip up something for our alliance. The following is a draft: Sunshine & Tabemono Friendship Agreement Team Sunshine and Team Tabemono happily agree to the following: 1) We are allies. 2) In the spirit of our alliance, we will not practice, perform, or condone any hostile action against our ally. 3) We will trade and cooperate in all matters. 4) We will peacefully coexist and resolve any future settlement or border disputes. 5) We will inform each other before undertaking any hostile acts against 3rd parties. 6) We will protect each other from agression and destruction from any 3rd parties. 7) Should either team choose to initiate hostile actions against a third party it is up to the remaining team to decide whether or not to participate, even should the initiator's homeland come under attack as a result of the hostile actions. 8) Should either team initiate hostilities in defense of their homeland, the other team will be obligated to aid to their fullest extent. (in my experience the defenders are often the ones 'declaring war' first.) Hereby agreed to by: (Tabemono) (Sunshine)

Changes in bold.

Sent to Togas, stressing it's a draft, not agreed.

	24-06-2004 01:12									#105
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Looks good, UnO! Let's see what Sunshine says...

	25-06-2004 14:59									#106
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We agree to your redraft and happily sign it.

quote:

Sunshine & Tabemono Friendship Agreement

Team Sunshine and Team Tabemono happily agree to the following:

1) We are allies.

2) In the spirit of our alliance, we will not practice, perform, or condone any hostile action against our ally.

3) We will trade and cooperate in all matters.

4) We will peacefully coexist and resolve any future settlement or border disputes.

5) We will inform each other before undertaking any hostile acts against 3rd parties.

6) We will protect each other from agression and destruction from any 3rd parties.

7) Should either team choose to initiate hostile actions against a third party it is up to the remaining team to decide whether or not to participate, even should the initiator's homeland come under attack as a result of the hostile actions.

8) Should either team initiate hostilities in defense of their homeland, the other team will be obligated to aid to their fullest extent. (in my experience the defenders are often the ones 'declaring war' first.)



Hereby agreed to by:

(Tabemono)

Togas, Minister of Friendly Relations for Team Sunshine [/quote]

	25-06-2004 18:34									#107
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Excellent! One potential interefer in our war out of the way, now we just have to get MAST on board...

	22-07-2004 00:53									#108
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Sent to Trip and Togas.

quote: Have you guys researched Mono yet? If so, would you please send it? -Kloreep

	22-07-2004 08:10									#109
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quote: [22:10] [Kloreep> So, does Sunshine have Mono yet? [22:10] [Kloreep> I would assume so [22:10] [Togas> oh yeah [22:10] [Togas> we've had it for a while [22:10] [Togas> I guess it never got sent [22:10] [Togas> we'll send it next turn [22:10] [Kloreep> k, thanks [22:12] [Togas> if it doesn't get sent, blame Trip [22:12] [Togas> he's been told and he posted in the thread, so he knows about it [22:12] [Kloreep> If it doesn't get sent, tell Trip he's lazy and he sucks [22:12] [Kloreep> Check [22:13] [Togas>

	22-07-2004 18:23									#110
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*grumble

aren't you glad SOMEONE keeps track of all this?

	22-07-2004 19:34									#111
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Yes. Thank you.

	23-07-2004 21:01									#112
	Trip is lazy and he sucks Increase Your PM Length

quote: Trip blew it and forgot to send you Monotheism. Please throw a granary or three at him in chat and give him a hard time. I'm going to harass him as well. --Togas

	23-07-2004 21:47									#113
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I told Trip he'd better send it next turn, or I'm going to sic UnO on him.

	28-07-2004 01:15									#114
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quote: [14:17] [Kloreep> I hope you sent Mono this time [14:17] [Trip> [14:17] [Trip> damn you [14:18] * Trip grumbles and loads PTW again [14:18] [Kloreep> Haha [14:18] * Trip mutters under his breath [14:18] [Kloreep> You forgot twice? [14:18] [Kloreep> Though I'm one to talk about diplomatic mistakes [14:19] [Kloreep> But you don't have to replay [14:19] [Kloreep> So long as you do send it relatively soon

	28-07-2004 01:27									#115
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Get your fork, UnO; you may be eating something Sunshiney tonight

	28-07-2004 01:37									#116
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Oh the HELL with this.

Who wants to ask LL to attack SS?

	28-07-2004 19:16									#117
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Soooo... Trip contacts me in chat last night, and informs me that they can't send Mono. I, of course, ask why the **** not? Trip explains that they literally can't send it. Either a bug, or we already have it. I say, let me check this out. So, loading up the last save, turns out we already have Mono. Did I miss something? Where did we get it from?

On the up side, that brings us all the closer to chivalry.

	28-07-2004 19:19									#118
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Excellent. Did some research:

quote: 350 BC - Turn 111 -Mr. Happy offers Monotheism. Mr. Glutton sends Feudalism, Contacts with Python and Monkey, and World Map accepted

Way back in 350BC. Don't we feel like a bunch of jerks now? On the upside, Sunshine clearly forgot they already gave it to us, too.

	28-07-2004 19:37									#119
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Oops , we might want to send an apology for our ignorance

	28-07-2004 22:46									#120
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I would feel like a jerk if it weren't for Sunshine forgetting too.