07-10-2003 08:06									#1
	Turn 125 - 70BC - Tunr 5 of the War Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

To be edited only by the Consuls and Ministers.

Status:
- Republic
- Researching Invention (32) 1 scientist.
- 52 gold +39 gpt
- Slider at 9/0/1 tax/sci/lux

Urgent questions & tasks
- Trade agreement written up with CFC. Done?
- Plans for continuing the war - how best to proceed?
- Do we give CFC contact with CGN?
- What should our new unit build proportions be?
- Safe passage for Po in WT's sealanes. Same treaty as with CGN?
-If GCA gets the GL, hw can we stop them from getting Iron to upgrade wtih/what do we need to beat them if they make a stand in their hill city with many Pikes?

Unit Movement & Actions:
Unit Roster
Please take all discussion on the war to the Turn-by-Turn thread.



Economy:
Apolyton - Building Settler (turn 2 of 3).
Mingapolco - Building Horseman (turn 2 of 3).
Bananatopia - Med Inf built, Start building Settler (turn 1 of 3). Note: the city will grow to size 9 and the settler will bring it back to 7 at the same time.
Incensity - Building Horseman (turn 2 of 3).
Nevermore - Building Worker (turn 5 of 10). Note: to be abandoned and the worker added to New Alcohol.
Tripoli - Barracks built, start building NM (turn 1 of 3).
Equilibrium - Building Walls (turn 20 of 20).
Cuildo de Alcohol - Building Settler (turn 4 of 10). Note: to be abandoned and rebuilt 1 tile south from current position.
Hispanica - Building Num Merc (turn 3 of 5).
Possumopolis - Cat built, Start builting Settler (turn 1 of 8). Note: to be Abandoned and Moved ??SW??.
Karina - Building Cat (turn 4 of 10).
LuxInvicta - Building Settler (turn 4 of 7 schedualled).
Big Bend - Building Catapult (6of 12 schedualled).
BigFurryCity - Horseman built, start building Mid Inf (turn 1 of 3)
Heart of Darkness - Building Cat (turn 6 of 6 shedualled).


WF:
Apolyton - starting WF 3-4-8-12-13-17. NC.
Mingapolco - starting WF 2-5-8-9-10. NC.
Bananatopia - starting WF 2-3-4-5-6-7-16-19 (working game). Change WF to 2-3-4-5-6-7-8-19 (working game).
Incensity - starting WF 5-6-7-17. NC.
Nevermore - starting WF 7. NC.
Tripoli - (grows this turn) starting WF ??2??-7-16-17-18. Change WF to 1-2-7-17-18.
Equilibrium - starting WF scientist. NC.
Cuildo de Alcohol - starting WF 10-19. NC.
Hispanica - starting WF 1-2-3-4-20. NC
Possumopolis - starting WF 7-14. NC.
Karina - starting WF 11. NC.
LuxInvicta - starting WF 7-9-13-14. Change WF to 3-5-7-9.
Big Bend - starting WF 19. Change WF to 1.
BigFurryCity - starting WF 5-6-7-8-19-20. NC
Heart of Darkness - starting WF 3-10-11.

Workers:
Reference: Map of tiles still needing Improvements
Monkee & CalcII - Road tile (done)
Horse & Squid - Tile cleared, workers frozen. Will road next turn.
Gang of 3 (MrWIA, EVC & Dejon) - start mining Tripoli 3 (WF #4) (2 turns to complete).
Dan & Gits - Start clearing Big Bend 4 (WF #7) (6 turns to complete).
Lib & Slave Farb - road done, workers frozen.
Yin - Build colony on the silks. silks connected!!
Panag - Start clearing Ming 1 (WF #6) with Spike (5 turns left).
Mark & Otto - 2 turns left to clear
Out of Darkness & Frodo - 4 turns left to clear.
Yo & rah - Under Direction of MoW.



Diplomacy:
GCA: WAR
CFC:
CGN:
GWT:

Comment, please, many "plans" are just suggestions or ideas, not decisions already made.

---
Note: keypad directions used for all except WF orders.

Discussion and basic reporting to follow. See the topped thread for comprehensive results

The Save

Last edited by notyoueither on 09-10-2003 at 06:13

	07-10-2003 08:32									#2
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

What city are they building the GL in? Is it possible that we can capture the city before it is built or the techs are given?

	07-10-2003 08:50									#3
	MOW Orders Suffering from ads?

Please note all change in units in all Army Groups!

Unit Roster

AGA contains: 7 vet MIs (01 through 07), 3 vet NMs (06, 08, 10), 1 elite Warrior (06), 1 regular Warrior (02) (12 units). {Algalord 8-8-7}

AGB contains: 6 vet MIs (8, 11, 18 through 21), 2 vet NMs (10, 12), 1 regular NM (02), 5 Catapults (01 through 05) (14 units) {Algalord 8-8-7}

AGC contains: 1 elite MI (15), 1 vet MI (14), 1 vet Horse (03), 1 vet NM (16) , 1 Catapult (06) (5 units) {Algalord 8-8-8-7}
To be added this turn: 3 NMs, 1 Horseman (total up to 9 units)

AGD contains the reinforcements heading south currently. They amount to 5 MIs, 4 Horsemen, 3 NMs, 1 Catapult, et al.
To be removed this turn: 3 NMs, 1 Horseman

Damaged units healing: M13
War Casualties: M09, M10, N09, H01, H02, S01, S02

Non-War Orders

G01 Princess of Apolyton [WhiteBandit] moves 9-8-8 then uses FORTIFY ALL trick with WB. {Over by GWT}

M12 BigFurryInfantry attacks barb camp at 2. {southeast of Equilibrium}
M26 Alva moves 6 and fortifies; waiting for barbs to appear in the north or to the southeast. {Mingapulco}

N01 MerZenary moves 2 and fortifies; waiting for barbs in the north. {north of BFC}
N04 Togas skips turn; protecting the Workers/colony. {Equilibrium 4-4-7}
N05 Enamel moves 8; will join the war effort now that Alva is an MI and can take over barb-killing duty. {southeast of BB on the peninsula}

War Orders

Worker Yo roads. {Nevermore 2-2}
Worker Rah roads. {Nevermore 2-2}

G02 Expedition [GCA Slave Worker] moves 8-8-7; heading home. {Off GCA east coast}

H04 Trip's Guard II moves 1-2-2-2-2-2. {Karina}
H05 'Mingapulco' moves 2-2-2-3-2 and joins AGC. {Nevermore 8}
H06 'Incensity' 1-2-1-2-2-2 to Nevermore. {Lux 7}
H07 'BFC' moves 2-2-2-2-1-2 to Karina. {BFC}

M13 Beta fortifies. {Elucidium 1}
M16 'B', M17 'C' move 2-2-3. {Nevermore}
M22-24 vondrack, Aidun Makahlua move 2-2-2. {Nevermore 8}
M25 'K' moves 1-2-2. {Karina}
M27 'Bananatopia' moves 1-1-1. {Bananatopia}

N13-15 ZargonX, Pikesfan, Hungryopd move 3-2 and join AGC at Algalord 8-8-7. {Nevermore 2-2}

C07 'Possum' moves 3-2-3; heading for the front. {Possumopolis}

W12 WWNN moves 7-4-1; will take the place of M13 Beta. {Nevermore 2-2}

AGA moves 2. {Algalord 8-8-7}

AGB moves 2. {Algalord 8-8-7}

AGC moves 2. {Nevermore 2-2-3}

All other units to remain as they are.

Please take all discussion on the war to the Turn-by-Turn thread.

Last edited by Trip on 08-10-2003 at 23:03

	07-10-2003 08:51									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Nuclear Master What city are they building the GL in? Is it possible that we can capture the city before it is built or the techs are given?

Catchopolis, which we have no chance at capturing any time in the next few turns.

	07-10-2003 17:36									#5
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Unless they've been prebuilding the Library (when's the last time we saw Catch shrink from settler/worker build? Worth checking) they won't finish it before we get there and start pounding on the front door.

Once they're down to one city (if they DO mega-turtle down to just Catch, which seems likely) depriving them of iron will be simplistic.

The real question is how long it will take them to build the Library, assuming best and worst cases. Worst case, they've prebuilt from the last time they built something we can confirm. Best case, they just started. Can we get CFC to answer this, or is it a job for Area X?

	07-10-2003 17:47									#6
	Tired of ads?

Actually worst case scenarion is that they've got a leader and rushed the GL with it. We will see next turn, I guess.

	07-10-2003 19:55									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Fried-Psitalon Unless they've been prebuilding the Library (when's the last time we saw Catch shrink from settler/worker build? Worth checking) they won't finish it before we get there and start pounding on the front door. Once they're down to one city (if they DO mega-turtle down to just Catch, which seems likely) depriving them of iron will be simplistic. The real question is how long it will take them to build the Library, assuming best and worst cases. Worst case, they've prebuilt from the last time they built something we can confirm. Best case, they just started. Can we get CFC to answer this, or is it a job for Area X?

There's no way in hell they're stupid enough to try and build it from scratch at a time like this. I have very little doubt they're rushing it with a leader and next turn it will be done.

They can't prebuild with anything since its their capital. Unless you mean a prebuild for a Granary or something.

	08-10-2003 02:31									#8
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Oh well, least we'll have a library one day

	08-10-2003 03:53									#9
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

They can still try to abandon the city, and the Great Library would be lost. I wouldn't put it past them to do something like that.

E_T

	08-10-2003 05:28									#10
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You can abandon your capital? I'm not familiar with how that works in multiplayer.

	08-10-2003 05:32									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

As long as you have at least 2 cities you can abandon your capital.

	08-10-2003 06:02									#12
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Trip They can't prebuild with anything since its their capital. Unless you mean a prebuild for a Granary or something.

They have a victorious army, right? How many shields for Heroic Epic?

I'll leave the tongue thingy to F-P.

	08-10-2003 10:32									#13
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

We have 3 settlers in the queues for new cities (or possible war efforts) and 2 for city moves (Cuildo and Possum). I need some Ideas that account for the following:

1) New city locations for the Old CDG areas, especially incorperating the current infrastructure and the coastline.
2) These locations will take into account that we will likely have the FP at Karina.
3) Using a 4 tile spacing as much as possible (I am SO tired of the limited WF that we have with the 3 tile spaced core we currently have).

We want to have not only the CDG/GCA area settled soon after the war, but we will also have to start settling the rest of the SE peninsula.

MoI E_T

	08-10-2003 10:51									#14
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by notyoueither They have a victorious army, right? How many shields for Heroic Epic?

The HE is 200 Sheilds and does NOT show up in the F7 Screen, Great Lib is 400 Sheilds and does show. They might have used the HE as a prebuild for the Great Lib, but I really doubt it, too. They could have also used the Oracle (300 sheilds).

No, I agree that they are rushing the Great Lib, after they had cleared out their last build. And the way that the game operates, they could have rushed it, but because we are between their turns, it hasn't gotten built yet and won't be until the begining of their turn.

Which brings up an entirely different question, what If 2 PBEM Human Civs both complete the same wonder on the same turn, who gets it?? I know that in SP, it defaults to the human player, but what about in MP/PBEM?? Does Rushing a wonder in that situation make a difference who gets it?? What if both Rush at the same time, who gets it??

E_T

	08-10-2003 11:08									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by E_T 3) Using a 4 tile spacing as much as possible (I am SO tired of the limited WF that we have with the 3 tile spaced core we currently have).

The problem is not the spacing, it is that many of our cities have limited choices due to being surrounded by jungle.

What is most imortant is not what will be easiest to manage, it is what gives us the power to win the game.

	08-10-2003 11:22									#16
	Get a bigger avatar today!

As we have already noticed in the game, If we wanted our current core to get over size 6, we would really have problems finding tiles for them to work. Granted, we had to do the 3 tile spacing for defense and just plain room to work with, having to deal with the jungle. But a 4 tile spacing is best for cities that want to grow to size 12.

E_T

	08-10-2003 11:29									#17
	Remove this text

Our current spacing sees many large cities... when the jungle comes down.

Furthermore, some can be limited to lend power to a few bigger ones.

What I really think, is that we are rapidly approaching the point where a discussion of future cities in it's own right should be begun, in its own thread.

	08-10-2003 18:50									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

nye is right: our core is not so "tight" that our cities will not all grow to size 12. The problem is that: 1) there's still a bunch of Jungle to cut down (Tripoli is using tiles that could belong to Bananatopia), and 2) we have no Harbors built yet (Incensity is stealing tiles from Apolyton).

Endless WF management is certainly a chore for the MoI, though, and we do not want a burnout. Thankfully, things should start settling down now that our cities are getting up there in population and all our tiles are improved.

I know this comment belongs in another thread, but: let's not be afraid to build Settlers and Workers in the cities designated as military pumps and whatnot. Although the production from Hills is really great in wartime, a normal growth rate is still very important. Just to give you an idea of how many more Workers we will need: not only should we improve every single tile on this continent, but we should also grow our size 6+ cities exclusively by joining Workers (simply more efficient that way). Just because the other continent has big bad cities does not mean all of ours need to be that way (for the moment)


Dominae

Last edited by Dominae on 08-10-2003 at 22:23

	08-10-2003 22:12									#19
	Increase Your PM Length

Brought over from the Turn 124 thread:

Here's an (incomplete) sim of the future of the Cross of Apolytonia for those who want to experiment.

FP is in Dominus, Palace is in Catchopolis. The old core is surprisingly productive, even without Courthouses.

Rename this file to DemoFuture.bix, it is NOT a save file, but a BIX:

http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Trip/DemoFuture.sav

	09-10-2003 03:22									#20
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NEWSFLASH:

GCA has completed the Great Library in Catchopolis!

	09-10-2003 03:24									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Now that's too bad. The ONE thing that might save them if they get pikemen and it happens.

	09-10-2003 03:29									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

It's not as bad as it looks... they don't have iron yet. See turn 124 for some comments

DeepO

	09-10-2003 04:59									#23
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Atleast, in SP games, I have found that If I get the GL, I don't start getting the techs until the next turn.

Also, someone in chat had stated that they will get the Anchient techs one turn and the Mid Ages tech the next. I don't know if it's true, but it would be nice.

E_T

	09-10-2003 06:27									#24
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by E_T Atleast, in SP games, I have found that If I get the GL, I don't start getting the techs until the next turn. E_T

I can confirm this in PBEM Multiplayer.

I just finished the GL in a PBEM.
The techs did not roll in until the next turn.

	09-10-2003 06:31									#25
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Beginning of Turn
- N11 'Y' is missing from the army stack. Presumed dead.
- The road 8 7 of Algalord is intact
- The Great Library has been completed by GCA, but...
- GCA lacks MapMaking, Republic, and Construction...
- GCA lacks iron
- Avar horseman grew on camp adjacent to BigFurryInfantry

	09-10-2003 06:36									#26
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Beginning of Turn - N11 'Y' is missing from the army stack. Presumed dead. - The road 8 7 of Algalord is intact - The Great Library has been completed by GCA, but... - GCA lacks MapMaking, Republic, and Construction... - GCA lacks iron - Avar horseman grew on camp adjacent to BigFurryInfantry

Another round where they kill one and we don't kill anything.

They haven't lost a unit yet while attacking. Very peculiar.

I think we're seeing on a much smaller scale what happened to the Farbians, GCA just whittled them down via the reload. We need to attack them ASAP to remove that from the equation.

	09-10-2003 06:41									#27
	Increase Your PM Length

Is it possible they have a horseman army?

Addit: Forget that. It would not have the movement to move in, attack, and get back out of sight again. It had to be one of the two horse we saw last turn.

	09-10-2003 07:22									#28
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

GWT has also made contact with GCA

E_T

	09-10-2003 08:04									#29
	Got spare money?

So we've lost 3 NM's (I believe) and still haven't triggered our GA yet. And they get a great leader off one of those swordsman battles too? Yeesh!

So now that they have contact with GWT they will also be getting Engineering for free.

	09-10-2003 08:16									#30
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Okay, NOW we need to start tabulating the math on the probability of these events. I think at such point as it crosses the 1% threshold we need to present our case at the UN. This is getting excessive.