29-10-2003 21:12									#1
	The (Second) MGE Sailing Succession game Full PM-box? Change here!

(Rather than talk about it forever, I decided to just do it)

We begin as Odysseus, lost far out at sea. Like Odysseus, we will probably have a long journey back to what's rightfully ours. Also like Odysseus, we will probably have some annoying guests to beat up on, when we finally do get back to the mainland.

Parameters: MGE, 7 Civs, deity, raging hordes, custom (giga) map.

Rules... of course there are rules :

1. No trade with the enemy. Period.
2. No city bribe before Robotics discovered.
3. No peeking at the map
4. All wonders and governments are allowed.

The game is set up as a scenario, so the tech tree is open. Rest assured that the AIs have some small advantages to compensate for this.

Start at 4000 BC. 20 turns the first round.

Post your intention to download and play, and I'll start a playlist.

PLAYLIST:
1. Ben Kenobi

Attachment: odysseus.sav
This has been downloaded 18 time(s).

Last edited by Six Thousand Year Old Man on 29-10-2003 at 22:23

	29-10-2003 21:14									#2
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Forgot the most important stipulation - win must be by conquest, of course.

	29-10-2003 22:03									#3
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I'm in...

This sounds like fun since we will soon finish off the Tricky game.

Can we trade with ourselves and exploit two continent bonuses?

	29-10-2003 22:20									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi I'm in... This sounds like fun since we will soon finish off the Tricky game. Can we trade with ourselves and exploit two continent bonuses?

Definitely. When I said no trade with the enemy, I meant, no Caravan-bombing of AI cities. It doesn't make sense that we would be trading goods with our enemies.

Other interaction with the AI (tech swap, map swap) is legitimate... as is trade amongst our own cities.

Play list:

1. Ben Kenobi
2. Oldnslow
3. SG[1]
4. Sore Loser
5. Jrabbit
6. La Fayette
7.
...

	29-10-2003 23:47									#5
	Tired of ads?

I'm in - but Tricky Sticky is first...

Any reputation constraints?
Can we trade with allies?

Stu

	30-10-2003 00:54									#6
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Sign me up -- we don't need to buy any Barbarian cities -- after all they are enemies to everyone.

The enemy of my enemy is merely a later target.

	30-10-2003 01:28									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits I'm in - but Tricky Sticky is first... Any reputation constraints? Can we trade with allies? Stu

I'll add you to the list after OldnSlow... that way you should have time to play Tricky Sticky.

No rules in terms of reputation - although I'm becoming a convert to the 'Spotless is best' approach. Diplomacy is much easier with a good rep. Still, I'm sure there will be ample opportunities for rodent robust constructive criticism in the course of this game - including heaping abuse on those who incur needless and damaging reputation hits.

"Allies" are just future enemies in this game - no foreign trade allowed!

	30-10-2003 03:29									#8
	Inflate your Upload Space

I would like to play, assuming that I can get MGE to work. So if you add me, add a question mark as well. I should know in a few days, I'm away from home at the moment.

	30-10-2003 07:32									#9
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Playlist updated. The play order is flexible if you're away for a few days, SL.

	30-10-2003 14:50									#10
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STYOM,

For we interested spectators, does the set-up mean that you begin with a couple of settlers in a caravel? That's what I understood by your saying

quote: We begin as Odysseus, lost far out at sea.

Or does it just mean that you have a rubbishy little island to yourself in the middle of an enormous ocean?
Well, rather than giving too much away, could you just tell me whether the start is on dry land or not?
The rest I can discover from the turn logs (and maybe some screenshots )

	30-10-2003 19:48									#11
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It's a little island, duke.

I thought of the Trireme start, except for the risk that someone would make a wrong turn and send our nation to the bottom of the sea.

Also, starting with a NON-Trireme would be too big an advantage (assuming there was land nearby).

However... the dry land we start on is pretty isolated. 'Far out at sea' is a fair description.

	30-10-2003 20:56									#12
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On the other hand, Duke, you could d/l the save (s) and see for yourself...that is, if you are an INTERESTED spectator.

Just a thought....

Monk

	30-10-2003 21:07									#13
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

If I was going to be able to download it and open it then I'd offer to play in this SG.
Unfortunately I can't play Civ 2 on my girlfriend's PC unless she goes away for the weekend or whatever because she has to work with it. I'm stuck playing PS Civ 2 and waiting for those precious weekends when I can make up for her absence with a healthy dose of Civ 2. That's why I only played the OCC challenge, because I knew I'd get it done while she was away. I did get too drunk and make a hash of it, but it's the taking part that counts!

	31-10-2003 04:40									#15
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Won't be playing until at least Saturday.

I'm very busy with school and volunteer stuff for the next while.

If someone wants to jump me, go ahead.

	31-10-2003 05:08									#16
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Call me Robinson (or Friday if you prefer) and count me in.

	31-10-2003 11:43									#17
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Playlist updated... Jrabbit the and La Fayette Robinson added...

	31-10-2003 20:46									#18
	Tired of ads?

Let me see what tonight looks like...

	31-10-2003 21:31									#19
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Okay, some revisions...


Play list:

1. Oldnslow
2. Ben Kenobi
3. SG[1]
4. Sore Loser (skipped if MGE not installed)
5. Jrabbit
6. La Fayette
7.
...

*cough*the 20 turns will go pretty fast considering we have no cities yet*cough*

Last edited by Six Thousand Year Old Man on 01-11-2003 at 07:28

	01-11-2003 05:15									#20
	Where's My Christopher Cross LP? Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Sailing will take you away to where you've never been...

4000 BC we wander -- Toynbee claims that the Sailing Sivvers are 7th in tech -- Oh ho so everyone else is in worse shape and had knowledge for compensation huh?

3950 We wander some more...

3800 We settle and found Troy. On the off chance that we might get to work more than one special, we took the extra turn & started to water down the trees. Also this location gives us an option for OCC or ICS (lol).

3500 Discover Alphabet, opt for Code; (we built one Warrior & are working on a Settler.

3200 Barbs land (two Archers) -- they later attack & veteranize our Warrior).

3050 Settler built & Game saved for next player.

Choices -- we can road & irrigate our mighty empire & then combine the settlers back into Troy -- or turn around & found new sites on the corners of our domain; also, we may want to consider early republic (notice that I sidestepped my ususal CB to start) as opposed to monarchy .

Finally do we want Map bad enough to delay improved government? The tradeoff is delaying the use of potential whales vs the extra use from the given spaces.

Given the potential with Barbs & others, I'm up for OCCing this for a while until we see the other land choices.

Attachment: sailaway.zip
This has been downloaded 5 time(s).

	01-11-2003 07:27									#21
	Re: Where's My Christopher Cross LP? Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Very good turns I think, OnS (I didn't download the save, but from your description I can guess where you settled, from what I recall of the map ).

quote: Originally posted by Old n Slow 4000 BC we wander -- Toynbee claims that the Sailing Sivvers are 7th in tech -- Oh ho so everyone else is in worse shape and had knowledge for compensation huh?

quote: 3200 Barbs land (two Archers) -- they later attack & veteranize our Warrior).

Good thing you didn't build that second city

quote: Given the potential with Barbs & others, I'm up for OCCing this for a while until we see the other land choices.

That's one way to go. I wasn't sure if you'd take the 2-or 3 tiny cities approach instead.

Ben Kenobi is up...

	02-11-2003 08:34									#22
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Taking the save.

Time to work out the rust from my lightsaber.

	02-11-2003 09:28									#23
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Opening the save...

I'm considering running an OCC start, building a settler into Troy once Troy grows to size 2, so we get the jump from size two to three.

Given that this is a Giga-map, we want Trade more than anything else for MPE.

Once we have MPE, we can swap techs with our enemies for Map Making.

What we need for trade:

CoL
Bronze Working
Currency
Trade!

For Republic:

CoL
Writing
Literacy
Republic

So my goal will be trade first, followed by the Republic.



What to build?
Select Warrior, so that we can jump to size 3 without discontent.

20 turns, eh?

Hit enter.

3000 BC

Settlers finish irrigating plains.

2950 BC

Settlers move to grassland to begin working Grass.

2900

Discover Code of Laws!

Options:
Bronze Working
Ceremonial Burial
Horseback Riding
MapMaking
Masonry
Pottery
Warrior Code
Writing

Select Bronze Working on the way to trade.

2850

Settlers finish irrigating bonus grassland, one begins irrigating plains.

2800

Troy finishes warrior, switch to Barracks to build Marketplace ASAP

2750

Settlers finish irrigating plains.

2700

Our settlers, sitting under the pitch dark sky over the tranquil ocean, see a massive comet appear for the first time. The comet brightens to match the moon for close to 50 days. Our sages puzzle the portents provided by the dazzling comet.

2650

Settlers finish building road on plains, start irrigation.

2600

A little child wanders into the forest. Four days later, search parties find the remains of her body washed up on the shore. Not since the dreadful barbarian invasion has one of the tribe died in violent circumstances. Mourners fill the town square, crying for the lost little girl.

2550

Browning, the leader of our settler groups, and third in line from the dictator, decides to search the forest to slaughter any of the beasts that remain. Many of the women worry, since the forest conceals all.

2500

At the suggestion of Dictator Odysseus, Browning orders the settlers to construct a road through the forests, to safeguard future forays.

2450

The men, hacking down a corridor, hear odd noises rustling in the forest, though the noises come no closer.

2400

Cutting down sections of the canopy, the starry sky peers through the forest floor for the first time.

2350

With the collapse of the last trunks, the men cheer as they leave the grim confines of the forest. Although instructed to expose the lair of any beasts, Browning confides that none seemed to remain in the forest.
Satisfied, Dictator Odysseus prepares a feast day to honour the completion of roads and improvements throughout the island. Browning enters town, leaving one group to clear any remaining brush.

2300

The tired settlers rest their shovels, and sleep in the city. Odysseus lays out his banquet for the next morning.

2250

Troy grows to size 2, both settlers enter the banquet, swelling Odysseus to size 4. Switch back to warrior, to keep martial law.



2200

Odysseus builds warrior, now discoveries every 9 turns.

2150

Discover Bronze Working, select Currency.

2100

Odysseus surveys his newly swollen city, amazed at the increase in production from his original village. He considers throwing other celebrations if conditions warrent.

2050

The newly increased garrison decides to hold a sparring tournament in order to sharpen their skills, and entertain the citizens.

2000

Herodotus votes the Greeks as Most Boring Civ after scribes record a two day snooze by Odysseus as the most important news of the day.

	02-11-2003 09:33									#24
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So much for warming my lightsaber.

Da save.

Attachment: od_b2000.sav
This has been downloaded 8 time(s).

	02-11-2003 10:38									#25
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Thanks Ben for the delightful log. Very spooky forest!!! And getting to size 4 was well done.

Just a thought for general consideration. Build some boats!!! If you guys wait for MPE to get map making, I think you will be in for a long and boring opening.

Monk settling in the peanut gallery.

	02-11-2003 11:07									#26
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Play list:

1. Oldnslow
2. Ben Kenobi
3. SG[1]
4. Sore Loser (skipped if MGE not installed)
5. Jrabbit
6. La Fayette
7.
...

Slow turns, but good work getting up to size 4... although I would have thought Lighthouse would be the one truly essential wonder. But that's why I didn't play all the turns myself

	02-11-2003 11:42									#27
	Inflate your Upload Space

Couple of thoughts.

First, we're going to finish the Barracks before we learn Currency, unless we put some workers on the water. We could get +3 arrows, with the side effect of slowing down the Barracks production. The Barracks, according to BK's log, was something that was intended to be turned into a Market anyway.

I'm still torn up debating whether to build on the NW and SW corners of the island. The upside is that we could have 2 additional tiles worked (assuming Troy wouldn't have hit size 3 without the added Settlers). The downside, of course, is barb attacks - and future growth, of course.

Republic before Monarchy? Could be risky

	02-11-2003 11:50									#28
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PS. to Monk - does the map help the peanut crowd any?

	02-11-2003 12:20									#29
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STYOM:

Lighthouse gives unsinkable boats?



Can't remember the last time I built that wonder.

As for the Marketplace, I did plan to slow the build and work the sea tiles. So the next person will have to keep that in mind.

	02-11-2003 12:26									#30
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Thanks Extremely Old Man

I d/l the save but this is enough bigger that I can make it out better.

Don't think this desert island will/should be the Palace for long. Need boats, Lighthouse and aggressive colonization/exploration to find a homeland. With that thought in mind, Republic is not the gov't for that phase, due to unit disorder. If the OC grows too big under Republic, the shift back to Monarchy will need a slug of Lux on the slider to keep the peeps happy. IMVHO

But the peanuts are freshly roasted and still hot, so I'm looking forward to this game's unfolding developments. So play away my merry lads and let's see what 's what!!

Monk