 |
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
Spiffor
|
 |
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:32
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
Unarmed Spanish. |
They are the enemy of the Iraqi guerilla nonetheless (secret services being scouting). To me, it is an ordinary act of war to kill enemies. What is not normal is to be overjoyed about it.
quote:
If they stop ambushing us, they'll stop becoming casualties.  |
If the US soldiers hadn't attacked, they wouldn't be casualties
quote:
Ever had an RPG flipped at you at close range? If you had, then the next time someone tried to flip one at you and got his head taken off before he got the chance to take yours off, you'd likely demonstrate a bit of enthusiasm. |
Fortunately, I never was in such situation, and I sure hope I'll never be.
But I guess that now that it's all right to gloat about casualties, nobody will have problems here by showing enthusiasm next time a US helo is shot
My point is that you have no moral high ground whatsoever in comparison with the Iraqi guerilla, and I expected better from fellow westerners in general, and from a guy like you in particular.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Thorgal
|
|
Tarifa, Cádiz.
Jan 2002
time: 05:32
|
|
quote:
Yeah, I've been on the line and been shot at, so I have empathy for the US soldiers who are now on the line and being shot at. |
And that are shotting to people in his own country.
That is not empathy, but identification or comradeship.
Change Samarra for your city, Irak by USA, US, British, Poland, Spanish soldiers by Soviet, North Koreans, Chinesse, iraki soldiers. That is empathy.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
MichaeltheGreat
|
|
Apolyton Grand Executioner
|
 |
mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:32
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor
They are the enemy of the Iraqi guerilla nonetheless (secret services being scouting). To me, it is an ordinary act of war to kill enemies. What is not normal is to be overjoyed about it.
|
I wasn't aware that anyone in the international community recognized that "the Iraqi guerilla" had some standing to pick and choose enemies and kill whoever he picked and chose. I guess now you'll want to work on a rationale for how South Korean utility contractors and Japanese diplomats are also "enemies of the Iraqi guerilla"
BTW, these guys were probably a bit more than "scouting" - most intel weenies there are analytical and forensic and similar types, not operators.
quote:
quote:
If they stop ambushing us, they'll stop becoming casualties. |
If the US soldiers hadn't attacked, they wouldn't be casualties
|
So if the US troops had just stood there and took it, they would have been magically protected? Oh, I get it, it's all the US fault. Never mind Hussein's violation of UNSCRs, past invasions of neighboring states, or the fact that he murdered his way to power in the first place - as far as the "international community" was concerned, he was the "legitimate ruler" of the Iraqi people, because he was the one who signed the checks, for among other things, the O'Chirac reactor. Hussein's blameless, because he's the guy you could do business with, regardless of anything else. It's the evil US.
quote:
Fortunately, I never was in such situation, and I sure hope I'll never be.
|
You should try it once - the overpressure from the blast has a nice effect on your ears and lungs when there's a not too far miss. Clears out your sinuses and bronchi real well, at least once you cough out all the blood, and after a while, you can see clearly again. It gives you a different view of the *******s flipping them at you, though. 
quote:
But I guess that now that it's all right to gloat about casualties, nobody will have problems here by showing enthusiasm next time a US helo is shot
|
If anyone wants to jump up and down and gloat, they can go join the Fedayeen and put their commitment into action. 
quote:
My point is that you have no moral high ground whatsoever in comparison with the Iraqi guerilla, and I expected better from fellow westerners in general, and from a guy like you in particular. |
That's like the "self-defense is murder" relativistic BS. If there really was large scale popular support for the "Iraqi guerilla," the coalition position would be absolutely untenable, and casualties would be 10-20 times or more what they are. If they want to stop attacking and lay down their arms and just blend with the populace and go about their daily lives, that'd be fine with me, and 99.99% of the US and allied forces there. Then they can take up their political issues with the coming Iraqi transitional government, and finally with the Iraqi's own elected government. But that's not their intent, so when they attack, and get their asses killed doing it, I'll cheer until they stop, and then I'll cheer because they stopped.
And when the US gets out and the Iraqis are fully self-governing, I'll cheer some more.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Spiffor
|
|
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:32
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
I wasn't aware that anyone in the international community recognized that "the Iraqi guerilla" had some standing to pick and choose enemies and kill whoever he picked and chose. I guess now you'll want to work on a rationale for how South Korean utility contractors and Japanese diplomats are also "enemies of the Iraqi guerilla" |
They are fighting people, they are more or less organized, and they have clear political aims, i.e. to drive the foreigners out. I do not agree with them, and I think they'll only manage to worsen the suffering for everybody there, but I don't see anything flabbergasting when fighting people attacks those it considers enemies. I'm not whining on the death toll here; I'm whining about people gloating on the death toll.
quote:
So if the US troops had just stood there and took it, they would have been magically protected? Oh, I get it, it's all the US fault.[...] It's the evil US. |
I assume it is the logic of your enemies. You say "if you weren't there in the first place, you wouldn't be killed"; they probably say "if you weren't there in the first place, you wouldn't be killed".
Care to tell me where's the difference, except the "We're right and they're wrong" part?
quote:
You should try it once - the overpressure from the blast has a nice effect on your ears and lungs when there's a not too far miss. Clears out your sinuses and bronchi real well, at least once you cough out all the blood, and after a while, you can see clearly again. It gives you a different view of the *******s flipping them at you, though. |
No thank you. I'm quite shy about admitting it, but I dislike war 
quote:
If anyone wants to jump up and down and gloat, they can go join the Fedayeen and put their commitment into action. |
Then why don't you reenlist yourself ?
quote:
That's like the "self-defense is murder" relativistic BS. If there really was large scale popular support for the "Iraqi guerilla," the coalition position would be absolutely untenable, and casualties would be 10-20 times or more what they are. If they want to stop attacking and lay down their arms and just blend with the populace and go about their daily lives, that'd be fine with me, and 99.99% of the US and allied forces there. Then they can take up their political issues with the coming Iraqi transitional government, and finally with the Iraqi's own elected government. But that's not their intent, so when they attack, and get their asses killed doing it, I'll cheer until they stop, and then I'll cheer because they stopped. |
You didn't get my point. I think the American troops was right to use self-defense. Unlike many lefties, I don't think the answer was disproportionate, because it is normal to do anything to survive. I consider the Fedayeen alone are responsible for the civilian casualties and wounded, because the fedayeen chose to ambush in a inhabitated area.
My problem with you is not the result of the gunfight. My problem with you is that you gloat about it. You're in front of you're computer, but you're ultimately no different from people who dance on corpses. And that's my disappointment.
quote:
And when the US gets out and the Iraqis are fully self-governing, I'll cheer some more. |
Same here.
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
MichaeltheGreat
|
|
Apolyton Grand Executioner
|
|
mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:32
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor
Ned: Are you sure?
quote:
Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
**** with the best, die like the rest, *******s.
It's about time we started taking the war back to these SOB's. |
|
Apparently, there's some subtle distinctions you miss. Not the conditional predicate clause "**** with the best" - the implication is that if you don't fulfill the condition, you won't "die like the rest."
Note also that once said *******s start shooting at you, it's a little tough to walk out to the middle of the street and say "Hey, stop that! Somebody could get hurt!"
Also note the little part about "taking the war back to these SOB's"
If they would all happily behave, I'd like nothing more than to have everyone leave and turn the country over to a democratic process run by the Iraqi people. That, however, doesn't fit in with the *******'s agenda. Whatever you think of the US' goals or agenda or the justification of the invasion on the spurious grounds of the week, I think there's precious few morons who argue that these Iraqi insurgents are "freedom" fighters who want to liberate Iraq from oppression and let the Iraqi people choose their own form of government.
|
|
| |
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:32.
Apolyton Time is 00:32. |
top of page
|
| archivepost |
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
02-12-2003 05:32
Yes, and they had a peace-loving benevolent government that reflected their popular will, too. 
|