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Ned
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of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:33
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Spiffor, I think you go too far in your example. The United States had to grapple with this issue when the Mormons wanted polygamy and said that this was not only not prohibited by their religion but "required" by their religion, which is probably not true. The Supreme Court ruled that polygamy was repugnant to Western civilization and that laws banning the practice were not a constitutional restriction on religious liberty. I think France could do well by following the US Supreme Court in its own practices.
Many may not know this, but the proximate cause of the great war between the Romans in the Jews that resulted in the virtual extinction of the Jewish people in the Roman Empire was caused by Hadrian's proclamation against circumcision. That war was the most bitter the Romans ever fought and required them to send legions from all over Empire to eventually win. After the war, Hadrian reversed the edict and again permitted circumcision. Had he knew in advance the reaction his proclamation would cause, I am sure that he would never had issued it.
This illustrates the difference, in my view, between a practice which is permitted by religion and a practice which is required by religion. One truly cannot have religious freedom while banning or not accommodating a practice that is required by a religion.
On the issue of scarves, there seems to be at least a significant portion of the Muslim religion that believes that the wearing of scarves is a required practice. With respect to these Muslims, denying them the right to wear scarves violates their religion.
The next step in the analysis (if one were following the US Supreme Court) on whether this ban is justified would be whether the practice of wearing scarves is fundamentally incompatible with and offensive to Western civilization. If so, the practice of wearing scarves could be banned even if it was required by religion.
Clearly, the wearing of scarves is not the same thing as pulling it out and pissing on the floor. The wearing of scarves is common among women throughout the world including the women of the Western world. Is not something that offends the very sensibilities of Western civilization.
I would suggest therefore that any law that would prohibit the wearing of scarves to those Muslims who are required to wear them by their religion is a violation of their constitutional right to religious freedom.
But clearly to the vast majority of Muslims, the wearing of scarves is not required by their religion but is more required by their culture. Even so, France believes they can ban this practice because it is an ostentatious religious display.
The term, "ostentatious religious display" implies that the display is not the customary garb of that religious faith just as wearing large crucifixes is not customary to Christians. Now, if the wearing of scarves is part of Muslim culture, the banning of the wearing of scarves by Muslim women has nothing to do with banning ostentatious religious displays. Rather it demonstrates intolerance of the Muslim culture.
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CharlesBHoff
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el paso texas
May 2002
time: 05:33
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quote:
Originally posted by skywalker
I don't understand why everyone is quoting "muslim religious scholars" as authorities on whether or not it is a religious obligation. If I think something is obligated by my religion, then it IS. My religious beliefs ARE my religion. |
That how Muslim Woman feel about the head scare they wear. I have little problen with muslim in general. I once work in than office where there was than young woman who wore just low cut blouse that you should quite clearly see her entire breast with no bras, than microminskirt so short that you where able to see that she wore no pannty and she alway compliant about the male looking at her. The female office mangenter was than middle east christian that got trie was her complaint about man looking at her that she brought
in the clothing the Muslim Woman wear in Saudia Arabic and she told her one more complaint from her about man looking at her she will have to wear it to work.
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CharlesBHoff
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el paso texas
May 2002
time: 05:33
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There is no just thing as than culture pure France culture or any culture for that matter. Are willing as than Franceperson live than life like the Celtic Gaul live way back in history. Culture borrow idear's from other Culture all the time. The idear of zero came from than city-state of ancient Pakistan culture, muslim merchant saw the zero being use than a numbering system that was able to express very large number easier by just useing 10 symbal for number, that the Muslim start to use it everyday in bussieness, sciences, accounting that the use of zero spead to Europe, and other culture around the world. One of the Pope trie to ban the use of muslim numbering systen in the middle age.
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CharlesBHoff
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el paso texas
May 2002
time: 05:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Tamerlin
A few days ago I saw a documentary about the racial riots that took place in the USA in the 1960s... why isn't your country giving equal rights to colored people? 
I am sorry CharlesBHoff but using a picture taken in the 1960s to argue about a situation taking place 44 years later is pretty ludicrous... and I am moderate.
Try again, off-topic once again...
Wrong again, all the words you have used in your post are commonly used in the French language. Moreover, we have no lesson to receive on this ground from peoples who have replaced "French fries" with "liberty fries"...
Before writing about a subject you seem to have no clue about, you should have a look at your Canadian neighbours, the Quebec has enacted laws about this subject that are far more restrictive than ours (and I find ours pretty ridiculous). Moreover the French laws about the foreign words have had a very, very limited impact, if any at all.
Sorry to harden the tone but I am becoming increasingly pissed off by the off-topic rants and the groundless gratuitous anti-french nonsense of some posters. If there are no more any serious posters in this thread I won't lose more time here.  |
In Calf than school princple who was female was lifting 18 year old school girl prom dresses to see it they where not wearing trong panties under the promo dresses in front of the boys waiting in line who where watching what the princple was doing and watching the girls private part being reveal. Partent compia to the school board than the princple was in touble. Teenager want to rebell from parent autherity between the age of 14 to 18. It best to let then do it in a harmless way like wearing microminskirt or makeup. I grew a beard while in hight school against school board polcy, drug like heron was widely use in my hight school which is why the school board didnot make a big deal about teenager growing beard, plus it was 1970 the two founder of the village of Lindenhurst where beard man and the village was holding than beard growing contest open to any male over 14 year old.
I as than republician in open rebell against our party leader refuse to call french frie freemdom fries. Or boyatte
French products. There are alot of rank and file party member like me who are every unhappy with our party leader. Alot of use donot support Bush illegal war in Iraq and in Afghanistan than the anti-Islam talk of certain Christian Fundie inside our party who want than religious war. Alot of rank and file member donot support Bush tax cut for the wealth only especial in a time of huge bugbet red ink and trade red ink..
The riot we have in the 1960's where needed to push throught some needed laws to reform our system by forceing political to deal with than issue they didnot want to deal with. Put people in jail isnot the answer to all social
problen there are more people in America pirson than China have, our political donot want to deal with the issue
of social justice.
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08-01-2004 02:29
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