10-01-2004 04:57									#91
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

What's that word for officially saying you will no longer abide by a treaty?

	10-01-2004 04:58									#92
	Put an end to popups!

Yeah, like the US gives a $#% about international agreements.

	10-01-2004 04:58									#93
	Put an end to popups!

Welching?

The point is that you have to enforce authority. Good luck trying to enforce the belief that you own the moon...

	10-01-2004 04:59									#94
	Inflate your Upload Space

I think it will never come to anything. GW needs to stick to message. The Mars thing is silliness.

	10-01-2004 05:00									#95
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TCO, the one Bush used in regards to Kyoto was "unsign".

	10-01-2004 05:04									#96
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Is white out a prerequisite for that?

And no, I don't believe Bush will send anyone either to the moon or to Mars.

He just doesn't have the money.

Big talk doesn't cost him anything.

	10-01-2004 05:18									#97
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Kyoto was never ratified. Astro would be different. abbrogate or somebhting

	10-01-2004 05:44									#98
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Not according to international agreements on extraterrestrial bodies they won't.

What do these look like?

	10-01-2004 05:44									#99
	Suffering from ads?

They say that nobody can own any real estate anwhere off the Earth.

	10-01-2004 05:54									#100
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

he meant an international agreement. Sneaky frenchman. ooops you are sorta one, halfbreed.

	10-01-2004 05:57									#101
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I am composed of all the races that have lost wars to the English.


Scottish
French
Irish
Native American
German (decreasing order)

	10-01-2004 06:23									#102
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I agree with TCO that Bush needs to stay on message. This crap costs a whole lot of money. Apollo was stupifyingly expensive.

That said, the moon does have its merits. Mainly, I doubt that the US would maintain this effort consistently over the 30 or 40 years it would take to go to Mars. Going to Mars in 10 would break the bank.

The moon would offer us a good place to park our sh!t while we get our stuff in order. Making a permanent depot/un-manned base on the moon is doable with some digging equipment and water. The space station requires too much consistent upkeep.

	10-01-2004 06:31									#103
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse You can't build spaceships out of aluminum...

You don't usually build them out of iron, either, right? Isn't the Space Shuttle some titanium thing?

Plus, what's wrong with aluminum?

quote: Originally posted by Sikander I think the money could be better spent right now improving our current environment. In the long run sure, but I don't want to see a vague program started for this right now.

And Columbus' voyage was a waste of time too, right? We're going to do something like this sometime. Why not now? If we wait for Earth to be nice and perfect first, the sun will explode and we'll still be stuck there

	10-01-2004 06:32									#104
	Inflate your Upload Space

The Columbus analogy is BS. We know that we won't find anybody on Mars to enslave and to steal gold from. Further, we don't have anybody to trade with on the other side of the solar system between us and Mars.

	10-01-2004 06:35									#105
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The natives had to get the gold from somewhere, didn't they? Even without the natives, the gold would have been there for the taking. It's the resources out there, and the real estate.

Plus, I want to go to AC and see some mind worms

	10-01-2004 06:39									#106
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Btw, I note that it takes a truly enormous rocket to deliver a couple thousand pound payload to the moon.

sky: Without the natives, the conquistadors wouldn't have known about the gold, and even if they did, they couldn't have mined it in any quantity until much, much later.

	10-01-2004 06:42									#107
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker [q]And Columbus' voyage was a waste of time too, right? We're going to do something like this sometime. Why not now? If we wait for Earth to be nice and perfect first, the sun will explode and we'll still be stuck there

Maybe because now the expected benefit/cost-ratio is not very high. If the NASA or others that are for the explorations can give some convincing reasons for doing moon colonies and manned Mars expeditions more people would be in favour of it.
Most of the experts I've heard so far are saying that unmanned expeditions are a lot cheaper and can provide more knowledge for less money.

	10-01-2004 06:48									#108
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quote: sky: Without the natives, the conquistadors wouldn't have known about the gold, and even if they did, they couldn't have mined it in any quantity until much, much later.

But we already know about the "gold" so we don't need natives to tell us about it.

And the cost/benefits aren't very high? Take the amount of resources on Earth. Then take the number of resources NOT on Earth. Notice the difference?

	10-01-2004 06:52									#109
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quote: But we already know about the "gold" so we don't need natives to tell us about it.

What's the "gold" in our current scenario?

	10-01-2004 06:57									#110
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker And the cost/benefits aren't very high? Take the amount of resources on Earth. Then take the number of resources NOT on Earth. Notice the difference?

the question is whether manned missions to other planets are the most cost-effective way to develop the tech needed to get these ressources. And if it wouldn't be more cost effective to develop technology that would allow us to use ressources we have on earth more efficiently. Better recycling, safer nuclear and fusion power come to mind. I'm not saying space projects don't have their advantages -I'm just wondering whether the projects planned now are not made to get more money from people who want to see some pictures from humans on mars.

	10-01-2004 07:03									#111
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"They say that nobody can own any real estate anwhere off the Earth."

The universe is commie?

Dan, tourism. If you enclose a large enough area and fill it with air, humans could fly around like a bird or bat or Richard Simmons.

	10-01-2004 08:49									#112
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quote: Originally posted by PLATO Thanks Spiffor. Watching the first man step on the moon live is something you young whippersnappers can never have

Nixon gave us the day off without using Annual Leave, so I sat on the floor of my living room watching. I was 25 years old, damm to be 25 again.

	10-01-2004 08:51									#113
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quote: Originally posted by Big Crunch A permanent present on the Moon would be a complete waste of time. The only possible reason is to stick two fingers up at China by defintely having Americans at the location of China's first manned lunar landing. Additionaly the US mannned mission to Mars would be a willy wangling competition designed to coincide with China landing its first man on the Moon.

You can go back to Europe stand on the dock 1491 and wonder if anything exist outside of Europe.

	10-01-2004 09:01									#114
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Not according to international agreements on extraterrestrial bodies they won't.

Bush will just remove us from the treaty.

	10-01-2004 09:04									#115
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quote: Originally posted by DanS What's the "gold" in our current scenario?

stuff

	10-01-2004 09:05									#116
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quote: Originally posted by Joseph You can go back to Europe stand on the dock 1491 and wonder if anything exist outside of Europe.

I already made that point, thank you very much

	10-01-2004 09:08									#117
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker I already made that point, thank you very much

When I read a statement that I do not agree with, I write a responce then and there, then I read the rest of the thread. It's the way I do bussiness.

Joseph

	10-01-2004 09:23									#118
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quote: Originally posted by Joseph You can go back to Europe stand on the dock 1491 and wonder if anything exist outside of Europe.

The difference is that in 1491, we knew there was something else than Europe, and we believed that mindboggling riches awaited.

Today, we know very well that there is something out of the world, but we do not expect to find mindboggling riches there. As long as we are to look for valuable resources, manned missions are a waste of time and money, even though they're a nice dream.

	10-01-2004 09:31									#119
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Is Fox going to get the broadcasting rights?

	10-01-2004 09:34									#120
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YES, CHEESE-MONKEY WATERING THE MARCHING TREES.