12-01-2004 23:53									#181
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quote: Originally posted by bfg9000 Spoken like a true Hitler Youth. How old are you? Are you a college student? Do you have any idea what it is like to have financial responsibilities in this country? A mortgage, car payment, day care bills, retirement savings? And as if that is not enough to worry about, we have to also pick up the slack for the millions of people who could not get their **** together when they were capable of doing these things for themselves but are now too old and/or poor to do so. Space travel research money is better spent on easing these burdens for Americans. Bush is counting on sexy Hollywood Star Trek excitement of a space travel program to lure young voters to get himself reelected. That is the only reason why he is spewing this crap. Congress will never give him the money he wants for this BS. Grow up. Have some concern for your fellow man. We need to take care of ourselves and the indigent in our society before we think about walking on Mars. We need to focus on providing healthcare to all Americans and reforming the education system in America before we hand Bush's campaign contributors Space research contracts which they will execute by outsourcing to foreign countries for cheap labor.

You sound like a broken record that repeats the same message every time someone wants to spend money on science or the space program in general. I don't know how many times I have heard this, but it is a lot.

It is funny, though, I did not hear this about the Apollo program until Nixon was elected.

	13-01-2004 00:06									#182
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I will never forget the Chritsmas Eve broadcast live from the Moon, as Apollo 8 orbited. It was the most stunning and inspirational broadcast I ever witnessed.

Here is a link to video of the last minutes of that broadcast.

http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetar...pollo8_xmas.mov

It is about time we returned.

	13-01-2004 00:20									#183
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And here is a photo of Buzz Aldrin planting the American Flag on the moon on July 20, 1969.

He is reported to have said something like "We come in peace." What he did say was something like this,

"I claim this land, this Moon, on behalf of the United States of America."

Attachment: aldrin-on-moon.jpg
This has been downloaded 99 time(s).

	13-01-2004 00:22									#184
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All the people against space exploration are as near-sighted as the average sewer rats: they can't see the bigger picture. If we want to survive as a specie, it's imperative we diversify our habitats. Moon and Mars are the perfect first steps.

When the US bought Lousiana, there were also a bunch of whiners complaining about paying too much for a worthless piece of real estate. The same thing happend when the US again bought Alaska. In Russia, there were whiners saying Siberia was worthless, too. In China, there were high-level politicians wanting to get rid of Tibet and Xinjiang. Who could possibly know a hundred years ago what treasure might be buried beneath the unforgiving Arabian sand?

Today, it's probably redundant to mention how valuable these lands can be (Tibet is the largest reservoir of water to China). Mars and Moon are even less explored than the Arabian desert, Tibetan mountains, Siberian tundra, and Alaskan wasteland hundred years ago. You never know how valuable a piece of "wasteland" can be in the future.

	13-01-2004 00:47									#185
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quote: Originally posted by Lord Merciless All the people against space exploration are as near-sighted as the average sewer rats: they can't see the bigger picture. If we want to survive as a specie, it's imperative we diversify our habitats. Moon and Mars are the perfect first steps.

And exactly how soon will our species survival be impacted by our failure to colonize the moon? Or even by failure to spend money figuring out how to mine the moon for... for what, btw?

Tell your ideas to some poor inner city family whose breadwinner got displaced from his job by an illegal immigrant. Or some old person that doesnt get enough money from Social Security/ Medicare to purchase medication they need.

Or just go ahead and explain to Mr. & Mrs. John Q Public that in addition to the taxes they pay to support these needy people, they will have to pay more taxes for Bush's phallus ride into space.

Oh, that's right, I forgot - this is a Republican administration we're talking about. There are no new taxes involved, only the budget deficit which will increase exponentially with spending for a new space initiative.

[/QUOTE]

	13-01-2004 00:50									#186
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Lord Merciless, You forgot to mention the whiners who protested paying $15 million for California, a totally worthless piece of real estate.

	13-01-2004 00:51									#187
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Lord Merciless, You forgot to mention the whiners who protested paying $15 million for California, a totally worthless piece of real estate.

What an opening!

	13-01-2004 00:57									#188
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quote: Originally posted by bfg9000 Tell your ideas to some poor inner city family whose breadwinner got displaced from his job by an illegal immigrant. Or some old person that doesnt get enough money from Social Security/ Medicare to purchase medication they need.

Did you listen to last night's debate? There was not a Democrat on the dias who was not in favor of legalizing all these illegals and for opening the floodgates for future "immigrants/Democrat voters."

How can these people be in favor of the poor inner city family breadwinner?

	13-01-2004 01:00									#189
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quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel What an opening!

Had the US not purchased California, we wouldn't have the illegal alien problem of Mexicans moving into California, now would we?

	13-01-2004 05:06									#190
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quote: Originally posted by bfg9000 And exactly how soon will our species survival be impacted by our failure to colonize the moon? Or even by failure to spend money figuring out how to mine the moon for... for what, btw?

As soon as the Yellowstone and Long Valley calderas blow up. Should humanity, or specifically Americans, take that risk?

quote: Tell your ideas to some poor inner city family whose breadwinner got displaced from his job by an illegal immigrant. Or some old person that doesnt get enough money from Social Security/ Medicare to purchase medication they need.

People always need competition. It's the competition that keeps humans making progress. Otherwise, you can build a Limes and degenerate like Romans did.

quote: Or just go ahead and explain to Mr. & Mrs. John Q Public that in addition to the taxes they pay to support these needy people, they will have to pay more taxes for Bush's phallus ride into space.

No, we should reduce people's dependency on the government by cutting welfare.

	13-01-2004 05:07									#191
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Lord Merciless, You forgot to mention the whiners who protested paying $15 million for California, a totally worthless piece of real estate.

I didn't mention California because it was taken from Mexico, as far as I can remember.

	13-01-2004 05:14									#192
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I just found my new signature.

	13-01-2004 20:09									#193
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Did you listen to last night's debate? There was not a Democrat on the dias who was not in favor of legalizing all these illegals and for opening the floodgates for future "immigrants/Democrat voters." How can these people be in favor of the poor inner city family breadwinner?

First of all, I am not a Democrat, I tend to side with Dems more often than GOP, but I am registered Independent. I vote for candidates based on issues not on the party line.

Second of all, I am not opposed to people immigrating to this country and pursuing the American Dream. I AM opposed to Bush's recent policy initiative on illegal immigrants. This policy allows immigrants to work in the country on temporary visas and then be deported when the visa expires. I see big business exploiting the hell out of these lame-duck immigrants due to their temporary non-citizen status - they need employers' assistance to obtain their visas. Once again an opportunity is provided by the government for coprorations to exploit the little guy.

The poor inner city family breadwinner that gets displaced by these illegal "temps" pays taxes on his unemployment check, but the illegal temp does not. Never doubt that every mouthful of food you eat passed through undocumented workers' hands. Why do we allow Americans to get displaced by these illegal "temps"?

	13-01-2004 20:29									#194
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quote: Originally posted by Lord Merciless As soon as the Yellowstone and Long Valley calderas blow up. Should humanity, or specifically Americans, take that risk?

What's the worst that could happen? A sparsely populated region of the U.S. has a catastrophic event occur. Hardly makes you feel like you need to pack your bags for the moon. Those things blow once every 700 million years, dont they? Yeah. You might have had a better argument if this was the Cold War 1980's when everyone had nuclear annihilation on their minds.

quote: People always need competition. It's the competition that keeps humans making progress. Otherwise, you can build a Limes and degenerate like Romans did.

There are those who are less fortunate than us, who don't have a pot to piss in who need to be provided the opportunity to compete. This is the land of equal opportunity, correct? By displacing poor Americans with illegal immigrants, this only helps one corporation compete better against it's rival by lower worker expenses.

quote: No, we should reduce people's dependency on the government by cutting welfare.

There will always be people who look to exploit the welfare system. Should we lump the truly needy in with them and punish them all, or is worthwhile to make the system less vulnerable to exploitation.

	13-01-2004 22:12									#195
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hmmm.... bush wants to go to mars... maybe somebody told him there's oil there.

	13-01-2004 22:21									#196
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quote: Originally posted by Lord Merciless I didn't mention California because it was taken from Mexico, as far as I can remember.

No, the war involved a border dispute in Texas and Mexico's protest concerning the whole question of annexation, IIRC. I think they allowed Texas (a Mexican State) independence on the condition that it not join the United States.

We purchased California for $15 million.

It is interesting that Texas was involved in two wars of secession in a very short period of time, winning one.

	13-01-2004 22:27									#197
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quote: Originally posted by bfg9000 What's the worst that could happen? A sparsely populated region of the U.S. has a catastrophic event occur. Hardly makes you feel like you need to pack your bags for the moon. Those things blow once every 700 million years, dont they? Yeah. You might have had a better argument if this was the Cold War 1980's when everyone had nuclear annihilation on their minds.

Well, technically the worst that could happen is that North America gets covered with 6 feet of burning ash, the skies across the world darken and humanity is thrown into a genetic bottleneck as world population crashes from 6 billion to a few hundred thousand in a matter of years.

	13-01-2004 22:50									#198
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Ooooh, just thought of some more bad things that are good reasons to leave Earth:

> Asteroid/comet impact of sufficient size destablise the climate.
> Our own attempts at climate change and the ensuring fun and destruction that would cause.
> Can you say pandemic? Ebola's not friendly and it's just one of thousands of diseases waiting the chance/mutation to merrily skip across the world.
> Or maybe we could have one of the dormant retroviruses in the human genome reawaken. Fun!
> There's always mankind's crazy nature, with its wars, terrorism, and fondness of nuclear weaponary.
> Thus leading me to my existentialist final point. The best reason to get off this rock? Other people live on Earth.

	13-01-2004 22:57									#199
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quote: Originally posted by Ned It is interesting that Texas was involved in two wars of secession in a very short period of time, winning one.

Three, actually. It tried to break away from Mexico in 1825, calling itself Freedonia. That one didn't get to far.

	13-01-2004 23:04									#200
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quote: We purchased California for $15 million

No, we conquered California, and then offered the Mexicans $15 million to push them to accept the peace treaty we wanted.

	13-01-2004 23:21									#201
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo No, we conquered California, and then offered the Mexicans $15 million to push them to accept the peace treaty we wanted.

Ramo, the point is that the war was about Texas. We purchased Kalifornia.

	13-01-2004 23:31									#202
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Right now the US spends several dozen billion a year on wars. Space exploration is a far cheaper way of feeding our need to expand.

	13-01-2004 23:31									#203
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quote: Originally posted by Starchild > Ebola's not friendly and it's just one of thousands of diseases waiting the chance/mutation to merrily skip across the world.

It kills too quickly to become a pandemic. Also the very mutation that allows it to become airborne keeps it from being lethal to humans.

	13-01-2004 23:55									#204
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quote: Ramo, the point is that the war was about Texas. We purchased Kalifornia

No, the point of the war was to annex California. And you don't purchase things when you're pointing a gun at a guy; the $15 million was part of the peace treaty (namely, Guadeloupe-Hidalgo).

Consider that Mexico flatly rejected an attempt to buy California before the war; IIRC Mexcio totally ignored our negiator, Slidell (which in fact we took as a diplomatic insult - and were about to use as a pretext for war if we couldn't manufacture a border dispute). And $15 million was hardly what the land was worth.

	13-01-2004 23:57									#205
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quote: Originally posted by Sava hmmm.... bush wants to go to mars... maybe somebody told him there's oil there.

No, get ready for the announcement that he has proof of WMDs on Mars...

	14-01-2004 00:52									#206
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This will help Space Travel Technology, and we REALLY NEED Space Travel Technology!

Earth alone can't answer all our questions.

And by saying that this is all pointless is equal to asking yourself why you do anything at all.

	14-01-2004 01:08									#207
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quote: Originally posted by Sn00py This will help Space Travel Technology, and we REALLY NEED Space Travel Technology! Earth alone can't answer all our questions. And by saying that this is all pointless is equal to asking yourself why you do anything at all.

Well, I think New Zealand should lead the way in this effort. Go ahead, we'll give you all the moral support you need...

	14-01-2004 01:12									#208
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There are others with some sense in this country besides me...

cnn.com article

quote: A new Associated Press poll finds that more than half say it would be better to spend the money on domestic programs rather than on space research.

	14-01-2004 02:02									#209
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk I just found my new signature.

If you are going to quote me, don't frame my quote with some lies about "kicking babies" - there was no discussion about kicking babies in this thread by me or anyone else.

You don't even have the balls to argue these statements with me within the thread.

Punk. Coward. *****.

	14-01-2004 02:22									#210
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