10-01-2004 09:37									#121
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quote: Originally posted by TCO YES, CHEESE-MONKEY WATERING THE MARCHING TREES.

	10-01-2004 09:43									#122
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No way it's a waste of money or time.

First off, this planet where on now ain't gonna last us forever. We need to get off it at some point, why not start making our first steps now?


Secondly, the knowedge we'll learn will be invaluable, also nothing beats actual experience.

Ummmm I had some more points but I've been distracted and my thoughts are gone. So thats it for now.

Oh also, I think you guys are failing to realise how cool this would be.

	10-01-2004 09:48									#123
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor

tHIS ACTUALLY HAS A NAME. dIDN'T KNOW THAT. BUT IT IS CALLED A "HIT AND RUN" POST. jUST A MINDLESS INSULT BY SOMEONE WHO WASN'T EVEN PART OF THE DEBATE ON THE THREAD TOPIC. lIKE A SPEAR OUT OF THE SIDE OF THE ROAD GOING INTO TRAFFIC. iT IS SEEN AS OBNOXIOUS.

	10-01-2004 09:49									#124
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i CALLED IT THAT. dID YOU GET IT FROM ME OR HAVE OTHER PEOPLE ALSO USED THAT TERM?

	10-01-2004 09:51									#125
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"SOMEBODY WHO pm'S ME" USED THAT TERM. iT MUST HAVE CAUGHT ON. GOOD LITTLE KITTY.

	10-01-2004 10:18									#126
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tHE sTRIKER wARRIORS KICK AZZ WITH SPEARS!!!

	10-01-2004 10:19									#127
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quote: Originally posted by DanS What's the "gold" in our current scenario?

According to many proponents, helium 3.

	10-01-2004 10:20									#128
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Wow, that was the most beautiful threadjack I've seen in a long time

	10-01-2004 10:22									#129
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Thank you.

	10-01-2004 12:47									#130
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quote: I don't get it.

I'm saying that the money to pay for this pork/nationalist jackoff is not there.

	10-01-2004 13:11									#131
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo I'm saying that the money to pay for this pork/nationalist jackoff is not there.

I understand that Bush will only fund the new program with $800 million next year. The big payoff comes when the shuttles are grounded after the Space Station construction is complete. That will give NASA at least $10 billion a year to play with.

BTW, does anyone know when the Space Station will be finished?

Also, if NASA were smart, it would sell the broadcast rights. The rights could be worth billions.

	10-01-2004 13:18									#132
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1. That doesn't add up to $500 billion.
2. NASA isn't going to stop all the real science it does to help pay for this. At least, I hope it wouldn't.

And broadcast rights for what?

	10-01-2004 13:38									#133
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Establishing a permanent base on the Moon would be, in and of itself, real science.

It would also allow types of research that can now only be dreamt of.

	10-01-2004 13:48									#134
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Establishing a base on the moon is a feat of engineering, not science. And the point was, a lot of NASA's budget is doing real science; if you take $10 billion a year from it, there's not much left.

	10-01-2004 18:29									#135
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A moonbase is unlikely to be very viable, except as a curio. It would be totally dependant on imports from Earth, probably forever. It'll never be seriously colonised, just like Antarctica or Greenland, or the oceans.

A Mars mission would be pretty good, although the previous Bush also made a pledge to get to Mars, so this could just be electioneering.

The asteroid idea is mind-bogglingly insane. Juggling chainsaws with our entire civilization, just to get a load of metallic stuff we can find more easily on Earth?

	10-01-2004 18:32									#136
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Don't be a twit. The point is not bringing down metals to earth; it's to have metals in orbit for (nearly) free.

And risks are minimal. It's not like we don't ****ing understand how to calculate an orbit....

	10-01-2004 18:46									#137
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For orbital work, I'd go for a space elevator solution instead. It's more of a technical challenge, but if it goes wrong, it'll cause less damage. And we can send refined materials into space, rather than waste time refining them in space.

We understand how to calculate an orbit, but that doesn't mean we will be able to pull it off reliably. I mean, look at all the spacecraft that have failed over the years. You think that the devices used to alter the asteroids orbit will be infallible?

	10-01-2004 18:53									#138
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quote: And broadcast rights for what?

The first human stepping onto the surface of Mars? That might even out draw the Super Bowl...

	10-01-2004 18:56									#139
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten The first human stepping onto the surface of Mars? That might even out draw the Super Bowl...

Cindering that everybody in the world equipped with a TV may be interested, that's a sure bet

	10-01-2004 18:59									#140
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quote: Cindering that everybody in the world equipped with a TV may be interested, that's a sure bet

The Chinese won't be. They'd rather cover their eyes and save all their excitement for the time when Chinese taikonauts reach Mars 100 years later...

	10-01-2004 19:14									#141
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Don't be a twit. The point is not bringing down metals to earth; it's to have metals in orbit for (nearly) free. And risks are minimal. It's not like we don't ****ing understand how to calculate an orbit....

will we eat them in orbit too?

	10-01-2004 19:17									#142
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WOOT...moon here we come...(mars is much cooler but to far away right now...)

Helium-3 and water (there is water on the moon) and starting point for going to mars and well a much easier way to build a fleet of sats. and spaceships

	10-01-2004 19:25									#143
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quote: Originally posted by Sandman For orbital work, I'd go for a space elevator solution instead. It's more of a technical challenge, but if it goes wrong, it'll cause less damage. And we can send refined materials into space, rather than waste time refining them in space. We understand how to calculate an orbit, but that doesn't mean we will be able to pull it off reliably. I mean, look at all the spacecraft that have failed over the years. You think that the devices used to alter the asteroids orbit will be infallible?

I think that:

a) building a space elevator is impossible with known materials and will be for the next century

b) shifting asteroid orbits isn't

c) if something goes wrong it's extremely unlikely that we'd end up crashing the asteroid into the earth

d) even if it was going to we'd have plenty of time to kick it the **** out of the way

	10-01-2004 19:30									#144
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about the space elevator....what do you think will happen wit the elavator if it breaks...it will fall down...you will put the end of the elevator in a high orbit...3000kM so that will mean a lot of length of elevator will come crashing down....

	10-01-2004 22:13									#145
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It shouldn't break.

Kitty, if we put a national effort into contruction of a space elevator, I think we could probably get it to work well before a century out. The basic components already exist. We just need to figure out a way to manufacture them in usable lengths. Surely no more than a couple of decades.

	10-01-2004 22:23									#146
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quote: Originally posted by Sandman A moonbase is unlikely to be very viable, except as a curio. It would be totally dependant on imports from Earth, probably forever.

I disagree. The presence of water, oxygen and construction material makes it very likely that it would become self sufficient at some point. Setting up a fully contained ecosystem has been heavily researched for at least the last decade. Several projects have been built and some have even had humans try to exist for periods of time within them.

quote: And broadcast rights for what?

The ultimate reality show??

	10-01-2004 22:40									#147
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Here's some more detail on what's going to be proposed. $500 million extra per annum for the next couple of years to build a rocket with a capsule on top, 5% NASA budget increases per annum (instead of 2% or whatever). The rest will be paid for with the eventual retirement of the space shuttle, a $3.5 billion per annum program.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...0-2004Jan9.html

I was hoping that they would kill the space station too, which would have freed up another $2 billion per annum, but I guess that program will run its course.

	10-01-2004 22:48									#148
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten The Chinese won't be. They'd rather cover their eyes and save all their excitement for the time when Chinese taikonauts reach Mars 100 years later...

You mean the Chinese would IMITATE what the Americans did when Sputnik and then Gagarin hit Space first?

	10-01-2004 22:49									#149
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I like the space station. It will be an excellent waypoint in the future. The heavy lift off Earth and the regular shuttles (not a reference to the current space shuttle) between the space station and the moonbase.

	10-01-2004 23:01									#150
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor You mean the Chinese would IMITATE what the Americans did when Sputnik and then Gagarin hit Space first?

You sure have been on an anti-American roll here the last few days. More so than normal.

IMHO, the only way we will be able to permanently colonize other planets would be an international effort. At some point the efforts of the spacefearing nations must be combined for all our common good.