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Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:34
  Old Post 20-02-2004 02:21 Visit Asher's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Agathon
I don't doubt it. I just wanted to clear up some misrepresentations.

Nobody here claimed Apple copied the GUI wholesale, just that Apple didn't innovate by using a GUI.

Speaking of misrepresenting...

Hagbart is offline Hagbart
Prince
Copenhagen, Europe
Feb 2002
time: 06:34
  Old Post 20-02-2004 02:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Q Cubed
xerox parc wasn't ever really going to ship them. they were a think tank first and foremost.

and one control to do everything, hagbart? it's been seen before, you know. maybe with not so many features, but since there's prior art... it's not innovative. sorry.


Having a touchsensitive wheel PLACED on a mp3player has NEVER been seen before the iPod.
Using Firewire with a mp3player was NEVER done before Apple did it.

So it IS a new thing and THEREFORE INNOVATION. Deal with it.

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:34
  Old Post 20-02-2004 02:23
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* GePap was right

Q Cubed is offline Q Cubed
Prince
t3h y3ll0w p3ril
Apr 1999
time: 23:34
  Old Post 20-02-2004 02:24 Visit Q Cubed's homepage!
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quote:
And the LORD cometh down the mountain, and he punished the Applelites, and punished the Microsofites and he said "AND YEH SHALL STOP THY BICKERING AND SILLINESS, OR THY SHALL SUFFER MY FULL WRATH", and thus HE spake, and the Applelites and Microsofites ignored the LORD, and shall be smited soon for their blasphemy.....

that's because the LORD uses the Gentoo Distribution of GNU/Linux.

i should know, because he's the one who told me so.

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:34
  Old Post 20-02-2004 02:26 Visit Asher's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Hagbart
Having a touchsensitive wheel PLACED on a mp3player has NEVER been seen before the iPod.

Did you not hear me? This has been done in the Zens since the beginning.

quote:
Using Firewire with a mp3player was NEVER done before Apple did it.

Oh come on, this is not innovation. Putting a multimedia connection on a multimedia device, when will the madness END?...

There's at least one Zen model that had Firewire & USB. THIS HAS NEVER BEEN DONE BEFORE. Therefore this is INNOVATION. BOW before Creative...

quote:
So it IS a new thing and THEREFORE INNOVATION. Deal with it.

FWIW , the Zen with Firewire was discontinued pretty quickly, because people prefered USB 2.0.

Q Cubed is offline Q Cubed
Prince
t3h y3ll0w p3ril
Apr 1999
time: 23:34
  Old Post 20-02-2004 02:26 Visit Q Cubed's homepage!
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quote:
Using Firewire with a mp3player was NEVER done before Apple did it.


...

you still don't get it, do you?

quote:
hagbart, firewire/ieee1394 could be used on the ipod because most macs came equipped with them. until this past cycle, it wasn't even standard on most x86 machines. why? not innovation (or lack thereof), but because most consumers didn't want to shell out the extra money required for a firewire port in their box.


is the answer to that. it wasn't innovative, it only managed to work because ipods at the time were only for macs, and most macs had firewire ports.

even today, when some people on x86 buy an ipod, they have to buy a firewire expansion card along with it.

if you want to think of firewire as an innovation, then count the addition of usb2.0 into creative's mp3 players as innovative too.

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:34
  Old Post 20-02-2004 02:28
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Young whippersnappers like Asher just don't appreciate how radical the original Macintosh was.

I remember when our school got the first mac in our town (1985 I think it was), we all just stood around and watched people use it, it was so different from any computer I had seen up until then and anyone could use it. Our lab used to have Apple IIe's. But there were always fights over who got to use the Mac because it was so cool and you could do all sorts with it.

I'd seen stacks of computers before then. I was a proud owner of a Sinclair ZX81 and a Spectrum and my friends had Commodore machines. I also played around on professional computers as my uncle had owned and run a computer company since the mid sixties (he was the first person to bring a computer into our town). I remember playing early computer games back in the late 70s on a precursor to the IBM PC.

The Mac was a revelation. I still have my old ZX81 manual at home somewhere. It's about 3/4 of an inch thick and I had to spend hours learning how to learn the basics of BASIC. Anyone could learn to use the Macintosh in about 5 minutes.

I think Apple deserves credit for getting the GUI to work and making mass market computers easier to use.

Hagbart is offline Hagbart
Prince
Copenhagen, Europe
Feb 2002
time: 06:34
  Old Post 20-02-2004 02:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher

It's a single scrollwheel that clicks and controls every aspect of the interface.

How the hell is that not a click-wheel?

You're another Machead that doesn't know what innovation is. Everything Apple copies and changes is an innovation...


The clickwheel is just a development of the touchwheel which was a development of the scrollwheel from the original iPod back in 2001. The Zen wasn't even born back then. Sry

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:34
  Old Post 20-02-2004 02:29 Visit Asher's homepage!
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The trend to use a GUI existed before Apple did it Most makers thought hardware wasn't powerful enough for a GUI, and they were right.

Give me a 8086 or 286 with DOS over that any day.

Hagbart is offline Hagbart
Prince
Copenhagen, Europe
Feb 2002
time: 06:34
  Old Post 20-02-2004 02:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher

FWIW , the Zen with Firewire was discontinued pretty quickly, because people prefered USB 2.0.


iPod supports both USB2 and firewire.

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:34
  Old Post 20-02-2004 02:31 Visit Asher's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Hagbart
The clickwheel is just a development of the touchwheel which was a development of the scrollwheel from the original iPod back in 2001. The Zen wasn't even born back then. Sry

Trying to paint the iPod as the elder in the MP3 market doesn't work, seeing as Apple copied CREATIVE'S GLORIOUS INNOVATION of using a HD for a portable MP3 player. Sorry.

Macheads are so fun.

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:34
  Old Post 20-02-2004 02:32 Visit Asher's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Hagbart
iPod supports both USB2 and firewire.

The Zen did it first, natively. Therefore, Apple once again copied Creative's innovation.

Hagbart is offline Hagbart
Prince
Copenhagen, Europe
Feb 2002
time: 06:34
  Old Post 20-02-2004 02:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher

It used the smallest hardware available at the time. The Jukebox predated the iPod by nearly three years, which is a LONG TIME in computer technology.

The iPod still isn't innovative, it's a more polished product of something Creative innovated with.

Deal with it.


The Creative Jukebox was released in late 2000.
The original iPod was released in dec. 2001.

That's ca. 1 year.
1 year does not equal 3 years. Learn maths.

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:34
  Old Post 20-02-2004 02:35
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You know, someone could have ripped the HD out of a PC and made a "portable" player out of it (it would have weighed a ton, but technically it would have been portable). But who would have bought it?

The ipod was a big deal because it was small.

Hagbart is offline Hagbart
Prince
Copenhagen, Europe
Feb 2002
time: 06:34
  Old Post 20-02-2004 02:36
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Sorry I have to say this, Asher, but you are not a very nice person.



Hope I'm not violating Apolyton code of politeness.

Q Cubed is offline Q Cubed
Prince
t3h y3ll0w p3ril
Apr 1999
time: 23:34
  Old Post 20-02-2004 02:38 Visit Q Cubed's homepage!
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man, and i thought trying to argue sense into agathon and asher was bad...

who is this hagbart fellow, anyway?

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:34
  Old Post 20-02-2004 02:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Hagbart
Sorry I have to say this, Asher, but you are not a very nice person.



Hope I'm not violating Apolyton code of politeness.


No, you are just pointing out the obvious. It doesn't matter if it's gay marriage, computers or whatever; he'll always be the first to stoop to childish insults.

Not that there's anything wrong with childish insults, if delivered with style and irony; but genuine, unreflective malice is the mark of a sociopath.

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:34
  Old Post 20-02-2004 02:39 Visit Asher's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Hagbart
The Creative Jukebox was released in late 2000.
The original iPod was released in dec. 2001.

That's ca. 1 year.
1 year does not equal 3 years. Learn maths.

Sorry, was getting the Nomad II and Jukebox dates mixed up.

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:34
  Old Post 20-02-2004 02:40 Visit Asher's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Agathon
No, you are just pointing out the obvious. It doesn't matter if it's gay marriage, computers or whatever; he'll always be the first to stoop to childish insults.

Not that there's anything wrong with childish insults, if delivered with style and irony; but genuine, unreflective malice is the mark of a sociopath.

Where's the childish insults?

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:34
  Old Post 20-02-2004 02:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Q Cubed
man, and i thought trying to argue sense into agathon and asher was bad...

who is this hagbart fellow, anyway?


You can't argue sense into me!!!!!

Q Cubed is offline Q Cubed
Prince
t3h y3ll0w p3ril
Apr 1999
time: 23:34
  Old Post 20-02-2004 02:51 Visit Q Cubed's homepage!
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you can say that again. where the hell did hasselhoff come from?

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:34
  Old Post 20-02-2004 02:54
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As JohnT said, until DH gets his due for ending communism, the avatar shall remain.

Hagbart is offline Hagbart
Prince
Copenhagen, Europe
Feb 2002
time: 06:34
  Old Post 20-02-2004 02:56
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Another innovation from Apple: The Newton, the first pda.

Sadly it was a decade ahead of it's time, so it didn't survive.

Quote: "Apple pioneered the very first PDA in 1993. However, the debut was a flop. But, instead of abandoning the market, Apple worked to improve on the original Newton. It has consistently stayed a leader in the PDA revolution by offering and innovative features over the past three years. "

http://is.gseis.ucla.edu/impact/f96...chen/newton.htm





Deal with it.

nostromo is offline nostromo
Prince
Montréal, Québec
Mar 2002
time: 00:34
  Old Post 20-02-2004 02:57
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A little something on the history of GUI's:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_GUI

Q Cubed is offline Q Cubed
Prince
t3h y3ll0w p3ril
Apr 1999
time: 23:34
  Old Post 20-02-2004 02:58 Visit Q Cubed's homepage!
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hagbart, i never said that apple didn't innovate. i said that a lot of what you consider apple's "innovations" are anything but.

deal with it.

Q Cubed is offline Q Cubed
Prince
t3h y3ll0w p3ril
Apr 1999
time: 23:34
  Old Post 20-02-2004 03:03 Visit Q Cubed's homepage!
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hasselhoff's only good series?

Knight Rider.

Hagbart is offline Hagbart
Prince
Copenhagen, Europe
Feb 2002
time: 06:34
  Old Post 20-02-2004 03:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Q Cubed
hagbart, i never said that apple didn't innovate. i said that a lot of what you consider apple's "innovations" are anything but.

deal with it.


Well Asher did.

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:34
  Old Post 20-02-2004 04:19 Visit Asher's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Hagbart
Well Asher did.

I never said they didn't innovate, I said MS innovates more.

Deal with it.

By the way, the Newton was the first PDA with the acronym "PDA", but not the first PDA.

Things like this predate the Newton (this one from Sharp):

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:34
  Old Post 20-02-2004 04:56 Visit Asher's homepage!
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A lot of planning went into the Pepsi-iTunes deal, didn't it.

http://news.com.com/2100-1027_3-516...l?tag=nefd_lede

quote:
ow-tech 'hack' takes fizz out of Pepsi-iTunes promo
Last modified: February 19, 2004, 1:58 PM PST
By Jim Hu
Staff Writer, CNET News.com

It doesn't take a code breaker or a math whiz to lift songs from Apple Computer's iTunes online music store--it just takes a good pair of eyes and a trip to the corner store.

iTunes fans have "hacked" a high-profile Pepsi promotion aimed at giving away 100 million songs through special codes marked on the underside of bottle caps. The codes can be entered on the iTunes site to download a single for free. One in three bottles is a winner, but it turns out that the markings can be read without removing the cap.

CNET News.com confirmed that it is not only possible to pick out winning bottles in advance; careful scrutiny can reveal the full 10-digit redemption code, meaning no purchase is required to get a free iTunes single courtesy of Pepsi.

"I've always been looking under caps whenever they had a giveaway," said Jon Gales, Webmaster for MacMerc.com, an online community for Macintosh users and developers, which published a detailed description of the code-grabbing technique on Wednesday. "I thought it was human nature. People have been doing it for years."

The bottle cap loophole could disrupt Pepsi's ambitious marketing campaign, which kicked off with splashy TV spots that aired during the Super Bowl and also took a shot at file-swappers. The giveaway comes amid growing interest in music as a promotional tool for soft drinks and other products. Pepsi's archrival, Coke, has also jumped into digital music, launching a digital download store in Europe.

Pepsi said that as a precaution against prying eyes and other shenanigans, the company restricted the number of codes a given customer could redeem in a day.

"We always put redemption limits in place on promotions like this," said Dave DeCecco, a Pepsi spokesman, "but we found that most consumers played by the rules."

Apple declined to comment.

Technology buffs were buzzing over the Pepsi "hack" this week. Gales' site crashed Wednesday after it was featured on Slashdot, a popular Web site devoted to open-source programming. The "hack" was also spoofed in a fake security posting to the influential Bugtraq security mailing list.

"This attack is not new," the posting noted. "Prior soft drink distribution versions have been vulnerable to this attack in the past. Known vulnerable versions have included the Mountain Dew "Free Soda" giveaways."

Apple typically sells singles for 99 cents and albums at rates comparable to those found at brick-and-mortar stores. Despite the popularity of iTunes, the business as a standalone doesn't make money. Apple's real purpose for selling music is to drive sales of its popular iPod digital music player, which does make money. For this reason, Apple took the unprecedented step of launching a Windows version of the iTunes store after years of developing software solely for its own operating system.

The iTunes music store only lets people transfer songs onto their iPod. No other hardware device is supported by iTunes.

Apple is not the only company that has expressed interest in the music download business. Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates has also publicly mulled opening a music store using the software giant's Windows Media Player software. Gates admitted that the venture would not be a significant revenue driver, but a way to keep people loyal to Microsoft's software.

Web giant Yahoo has also begun exploring ways to step into the business. The company recently acquired a start-up called Mediacode to develop a Yahoo music player and download store, sources said. At the same time, Yahoo has been approached by companies such as Roxio's Napster, BuyMusic.com and MusicMatch to partner with, or acquire, them.

RealNetworks, Microsoft's main competitor in digital media software, has pinned its future on selling music subscriptions and downloads through its Rhapsody subsidiary.

All of these companies argue they cannot overlook the growing number of consumers buying music off the Internet, even if it means losing money for a while. In the meantime, they hope to make up the loss through sales of other products, such as concert tickets and soft drinks, and the partnership deals such sales suggest.

Macmerc Webmaster Gales said he discovered the exploit shortly after seeing the bottles in stores. But he said he paid for the bottles after selecting winners.

"The store's happy because they're still making a sale, and Pepsi is happy too," Gales said. "The difference between this game and other games is you don't have to save caps, send them away and wait 8 weeks to get a T-shirt. The instant gratification made it more fun to get a winner."

Hagbart is offline Hagbart
Prince
Copenhagen, Europe
Feb 2002
time: 06:34
  Old Post 20-02-2004 05:25
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It's not Apple's fault that Pepsi can't make good enough bottles.

 
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