22-02-2004 15:53									#1
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Welcome to the trenches!
This thread will be for developing my new scenario, Kaiser.
Set in WW1, it will follow the same lines as my WW2 caper Dictator.

Only this time the emphasis is on fighting men, rather than those unchivalrous tank contraptions!

The scenario is about 40% ready, and I will be open to suggestions on a whole range of issues.
I want to make a really playable global war and building scenario set in the WW1 era.

The action will be starting in the summer of 1914…
The war on the Western front will be significant, but not the only thing happening in the world.
Many non-aligned nations will be able to form an agenda.

I want to know what line the scenario should take: constant war and doom? Or perhaps armistices can be formed?

As I said - I am open to suggestions.

The civs will most certainly include the Entente, the Central powers, Russia and the USA…Perhaps Japan too…

In this case, much is still to be decided…

Technology will start with early 20th century, and end with the dawn of WW2…

I will post the units as a taster, and let you call for any units you want to see!

Many units involved will include early weapons like light recon planes, Zepplins and dreadnoughts.
Then later research will lead to Stormtroopers, gas, hand-held MGs, tanks, and a whole host of ungentlemanly armaments!

So let me know if you have a good idea or unit – there is a good possibility of it being included!

This one is for the CDG and Poly communities – I would love you all to take part in the development process!

Last edited by curtsibling on 14-04-2004 at 17:29

	22-02-2004 16:02									#2
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Here is a look at the current state of the units...

I still need a few of the essentials...

Many thanks to Jim, fairline and the other super-talented creators for these awesome units!

I will be replacing many of these place-holder units as things progress...

Attachment: units.gif
This has been downloaded 299 time(s).

	22-02-2004 16:41									#3
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Tell the world of Paschendale...

Units look good! Is the green-white-red banner supposed to be Italy?

	22-02-2004 16:53									#4
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Passchendaele, and all the battles of Ypres might play out very different in this scen!

Those two units on the top row are French 'troopers'!

	22-02-2004 17:42									#5
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Nice to see this thread Curt

Hope you don't mind me weighing in with my 2-p's worth regarding the units:

- the French switched from red/blue uniforms to 'horizon blue' in 1915 - they didn't adopt green until WW2; I've posted the blue equivalent of the green infantryman at CDG.

- the green Russian uniform had been dropped before WW1;

- the Germans had brown jackboots in 1914 rather than puttees which they adopted later;

- there must be a better unit for the Bolshevik than my Polish ww2 mountain trooper

- The 12-pdr cannon was late 19th century. Are you looking for a British artillery piece or a generic one here?

- the Germans didn't produce a decent tank in WW2. The A7V was entirely impractical and they didn't have turrets; they were also produced in very small numbers compared to the British and French tanks (I think an FT-17 would be in order BTW). I would make the German Stormtrooper the equivalent of the Allied tanks, rather than giving the Germans panzers. Their use in Kaiserslacht produced greater results than the Anglo-French tanks prior to the final breakthrough in 1918. The British and the French were streets ahead of the Germans in tank design in WW1.

I'd be happy to have a go at some units if you like - I plan to do some Russians for example.

Hope my pedantry isn't too annoying

I would suggest Turkey and Italy as 2 of the civs, BTW. USA would perhaps be better as events-generated reinforcements for the Anglo-French rather than a civ.

	22-02-2004 19:13									#6
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quote: Originally posted by fairline Nice to see this thread Curt Hope you don't mind me weighing in with my 2-p's worth regarding the units:

Fairline, on the contrary, your pointers are most welcome!

quote: Originally posted by fairline - the French switched from red/blue uniforms to 'horizon blue' in 1915 - they didn't adopt green until WW2; I've posted the blue equivalent of the green infantryman at CDG.

I know, I was keeping that green-garbed fellow as a place holder, while I experimented with some shades of blue...

quote: Originally posted by fairline - the green Russian uniform had been dropped before WW1;

Same as the French troop, I was using this as a place holder...

quote: Originally posted by fairline - the Germans had brown jackboots in 1914 rather than puttees which they adopted later;

Ooops! I'll make that change!

quote: Originally posted by fairline - there must be a better unit for the Bolshevik than my Polish ww2 mountain trooper

It's a fair cop, guv'nor!

Yep, this fellow was another place holder.
I think the proto-commie will be a shabby-dressed version of whatever Tzarist soldier is used...

quote: Originally posted by fairline - The 12-pdr cannon was late 19th century. Are you looking for a British artillery piece or a generic one here?

If you are offering, my friend, I would gladly take an Allied stlye gun...

quote: Originally posted by fairline - the Germans didn't produce a decent tank in WW2. The A7V was entirely impractical and they didn't have turrets; they were also produced in very small numbers compared to the British and French tanks (I think an FT-17 would be in order BTW).

I agree with you here, the German tank I borrowed from blood and steel.
I hope to lead the techs into a 1930's level.
That panzer was part of that idea...It will change.

quote: Originally posted by fairline I would make the German Stormtrooper the equivalent of the Allied tanks, rather than giving the Germans panzers. Their use in Kaiserslacht produced greater results than the Anglo-French tanks prior to the final breakthrough in 1918. The British and the French were streets ahead of the Germans in tank design in WW1.

Sounds good!
I like to use culture-specialised units!

quote: Originally posted by fairline I'd be happy to have a go at some units if you like - I plan to do some Russians for example.

Fairline, you know I would be blown away by any units you could manage for this one!

All I can say is please do what you can spare the time for!

I will definitely showcase them!

quote: Originally posted by fairline Hope my pedantry isn't too annoying

Dude!
Your advice is of very major use to this project!

quote: Originally posted by fairline I would suggest Turkey and Italy as 2 of the civs, BTW. USA would perhaps be better as events-generated reinforcements for the Anglo-French rather than a civ.

The USA as part of the neutral powers...(who are all conquerable)
That is a new concept, and an exciting one!



This is going to be a buzz to create!

	22-02-2004 22:28									#7
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Am I seeing a headless unit?

(last row, just after the yankee unit)

	23-02-2004 00:35									#8
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What kind of map will this be on, Curt?

	23-02-2004 01:51									#9
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quote: I'd be happy to have a go at some units if you like - I plan to do some Russians for example.

I would like that very much myself for the thing I'm working on!

	23-02-2004 01:54									#10
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@jasev:
That is a soldier of the infamous Russian headless regiment!

(or perhaps a unit I was messing around with!)

@rmsharpe:
It will be on my usual global map - with many city name-and placement edits!

	23-02-2004 03:24									#11
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World War I must be tough to simulate...I tried putting combinations of civs together and it's getting tough to fit the pieces.

Assortment 1 (Neutrals as barbarians, all wartime combat powers.)

U.S., Commonwealth, France, Central Powers, Ottomans, Russia, Japan.

Assortment 2 (Neutrals as barbarians, Ottomans a Central Power, Italy substitutes for Ottomans for flavor.)

U.S., Commonwealth, France, Central Powers, Italy, Russia, Japan.

There are broad cultural differences between Germany/Austria and the Ottomans, but leaving that space open would allow Italy to be playable.

Assortment 3 (Neutrals are regular, UK and France single power.)

U.S., Neutrals, Entente, Central Powers, Ottomans, Russia, Japan.

Neutral negotiations would be able to take place and perhaps there'd be much less of a chance of the U.S. deciding to annex Mexico.

That's just three. I'm sure I'd come up with more, but oy...too many combinations to even think about.

	23-02-2004 04:44									#12
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It's a mind-bending choice!

One other is this:

Barbs as farflung empires and isolated states.

Neutrals will be known as the World Powers,
and would include all major non-combatants:
USA/Asia-China/South America/Spain/Scandinavia - etc.

This leaves:

Entente, Central Powers, Ottomans, Russia, Japan, Italy.

The USA will provide powerful events-created units to aid the late-war Entente efforts...

I like the chance to break away from the usual line-up of civs that are found in war scenarios.

This will be interesting as the USA will provide powerful help, but in a different style from usual...

	23-02-2004 10:40									#13
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Kull depicted the 30.5cm and larger guns as missile units in his unfinished Guns of August. Worked well as fortress killers, but they were too few to dominate the battlefield.

Besides the Germans, Italians, Turks, and possibly Russians also fielded stormtroopers.

	23-02-2004 18:15									#14
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quote: Originally posted by curtsibling If you are offering, my friend, I would gladly take an Allied stlye gun...

Curt, you'll need Boco's permission to use any of the British guns I made for him (they're posted at CDG). I see you already have the French 75mm, so if you use a single Anglo-French civ this will suffice I think.

Random thought about tanks: I think it would make sense to give tanks the missile 'use once and then die' flag. If you look at the operational use of tanks by the British, they often amassed a large number of them for an assault which after 2 or 3 days of combat were reduced to a tiny number. This was largely through mechanical unreliabilty and bogging down, but the Germans also became more sophisticated in their use of AT guns. Allowing the player to build and maintain a large number of potentially war-winning tanks would be unreallistic, IMHO.

A good site about WW1 British tanks is this, BTW:

http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Base/1545/index.html

If you don't give tanks the missile flag, I would ensure that movement stats are 1 for the heavy tanks (Mks I - VIII).

If you decide to make the US a separate civ then they'll need access to French and British equipment such as the 75mm, Spad and FT-17.

Finally, a thought about the British: you may want to make the BEF in 1914 extremely good in terms of defensive stats but non-buildable (and few in number). This would reflect their status as perhaps the best trained and equiped army in 1914 which, despite the paltry size of the BEF, played a significant role in halting the initial German advance and preventing the attempted outflanking 'Race to the sea'. Thereafter, the Brit player should be able only to produce less-capable Kitchener's New Army troops. By way of upgrading to better troops, I would give the Entente Anzacs or Canadians. The Aussie, NZ and Canadian Corps of the 4th (?) Army were the elite of the Entente armies in 1918, and hugely significant in the final breakthrough in 1918.

	23-02-2004 20:34									#15
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Getting Russian and specially Turkish infantry would be great.

Curt- if this is a world map, what about colonial forces for the French, Germans, and UK? You make them weaker than the European forces for use in europe, but much cheaper, enough to be affordable for the colonial cities.

Last edited by GePap on 23-02-2004 at 20:44

	23-02-2004 22:56									#16
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i would also be interested at having a go at creating ww1 units although my own style is very different, do you have any suggestions curt?

Last edited by varwnos on 27-02-2004 at 04:30

	23-02-2004 23:28									#17
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A thought on China, instead of having it a world power, how about having it a barbarian state, so that other colonizing powers may rush to try and take China?

	24-02-2004 00:50									#18
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@Boco:
Would you be OK with me borrowing some of your artillery?
If not, I can improvise!

@fairline:
Thanks for that great link!

And many good points, and justly true!

I like the idea of the tanks being called 'Tank Assaults', representing an attack, rather than a permanent unit.

Also the BEF concept is one I was toying with.
The Canadians and Anzacs will definitely take part.

I want this scen to be about varied forces, and these units would perfectly show that.

Also I wonder if it is worth starting the scenario in 1915, as to clear room for these world units?

@GePap:
Clearing out the 1914 units might enable some colonial troops for the various cultures...

@rmsharpe:
I like that idea, but the presence of some tough Chinese walord troops might make the rush a bit tricky!
But a fun goal, nonetheless!

	24-02-2004 00:52									#19
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@varwnos:

If you fancy doing some static trench units, then give it a shot, old chap!

	24-02-2004 09:04									#20
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this is my choice for WW1 units on a europe map, from my unfinished scenerio-Alex did mot of them, then from a bunch of different artists, noe mine.

Attachment: units.gif
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	24-02-2004 09:34									#21
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To name the ones above which I post only to show there would be plenty of space for a good number of units:

First row: Engineers, German Inf. II, Serbian Inf., Bulgarian Inf., Belgian INf. Rumanian Inf., Soviets, German Inf. I, Russian Inf.

Second Row: Ottoman Inf, BEF, New Army, French Inf. I, French Inf. II, AH Inf. I, AH Inf. II, Italian Inf. Mountain Troops

Third Row: Stormtroopers,Senegalese Inf. Cossacks, Ottoman Cavalry, Tank, Field gun, Howlitzer, Artillery, Siege Guns

Fourth Row; early planes, Spad, Albatros, Newport, Sopwith Camel, Zeppelin, Gotha Bomber, Berlin Bomber, Heavy Cruiser

Fifth Row: Destroyer, Torpedo Boat, Armoured Cruiser, Battlecruiser, Dreadnaught, submarine, Light Cruiser, Transport, Gas

Sixth Row: Kiel Uprising, French cavalry, British Cavalry, Arabs, Supplies, Irish Uprising, T26, H35, Fokker Triplane

Seventh Row: Armored car, Cavalry, fortifications, Minefields, AEF, White Russians, Infantry, ANZAC

	24-02-2004 09:37									#22
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The civs I chose:

Germany, Austro-Hungary (with Bulgarians), Russia (with Serbia), Ottomans, British (with AEF), French (with Belgians), Italy (with Rumania), barbs the rest.

Thus ends my threadjack of Curt's thread...

Last edited by GePap on 24-02-2004 at 09:56

	24-02-2004 19:14									#23
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quote: Originally posted by curtsibling ..some static trench units..

Pablo used some in his Spanish Civil War scenario.. and I guess I have some at home I can post later.. Not sure if it's what you want but I can at least post them..

	24-02-2004 21:47									#24
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made by Steph I guess.. not 100% sure though..

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	24-02-2004 21:49									#25
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	25-02-2004 02:54									#26
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The pill-boxes may prove to be useful, Arthedain!

Thanks, mate!

I will use alex's tank for now though, those tanks you posted are very groovy, but at the wrong angle for me.

	25-02-2004 03:12									#27
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Sounds like a job for fairline!

We need some good WWI tanks out there.

	25-02-2004 04:27									#28
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IN the industrial units thread there are some good ones, including a whippet and some French schnieders put there from a scenerio about the wars in China in the 1920's- in that thread or the one about units for ToT.

	25-02-2004 05:27									#29
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No problemo Curt.. I just felt like posting them so you could at least have a look

	25-02-2004 09:09									#30
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quote: @Boco: Would you be OK with me borrowing some of your artillery?

IIRC, my sole contribution to Fairline's icons was to complain about shiny recoil tubes. They were made of brass, though, and the sun shines a lot in Egypt. Thanks for the consideration, Fairline.

Curt you are welcome to 'my' artillery. Maybe this'll light a fire under my butt to finish testing El Aurens.