17-03-2004 04:17									#271
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Oncle Boris How in freaking hell would you demonstrate the authenticity of AN INTERNET POST?

This post is authentic. I guarantee it 100%

How do you demonstrate the authenticity of a fax? a call? a tape? Life is full of questions...

quote: I need something more serious than this. Common sense would usually say that terrorism benefits the right, not the left.

Your definition of common sense must be uncommon...

If terrorism benefits the right why the left made so much noise about it? oh! so much questions!

	17-03-2004 04:19									#272
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

AQ is dumb. The Spanish people are smarter. It was in the best interest of Al Qaeda that people would vote for the conservatives. The spanish troops would remain in Iraq, the US would remain unilateral, the UN would be kept away and the feeling and reality of exploitation and helpelssness would feed the terrorist "cause".

Now, with a radically different gov Spain rejoins Europe after a short interlude and rejoins the responsible side, the onces who are the only onces capable of stopping terrorism and not feed it and let it reach its shores but strike it on its root (as soon as we get our act together).

AQ
a) miscalculated
b) simply wanted "revenge"

in any case it's the big loser of the spanish elections.

	17-03-2004 04:21									#273
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by OliverFA Al-Qaeda 1 - Spanish democracy 0 . . .

Already posted earlier in the thread. Please edit your post to get rid of this SPAM!

	17-03-2004 04:24									#274
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Now, with a radically different gov Spain rejoins Europe after a short interlude and rejoins the responsible side, the onces who are the only onces capable of stopping terrorism and not feed it and let it reach its shores but strike it on its root (as soon as we get our act together).

"Europe" = France + Germany (and now Spain)

I´m sure that UK, Italy, Portugal, Switzerland, Poland, Sweden, Norway, Austria, etc, etc would be pleased by your definition

	17-03-2004 04:24									#275
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by OliverFA It would be stupid to feel loyal to a country that has changed completely its point of view.

The country hasn't changed its point of view. It just got rid of a government that didn't represent its point of view and replaced it with one that did. Hurray for Spain! Wish we could do that.

	17-03-2004 04:27									#276
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by OliverFA "Europe" = France + Germany (and now Spain) I´m sure that UK, Italy, Portugal, Switzerland, Poland, Sweden, Norway, Austria, etc, etc would be pleased by your definition

Not really Oliver. In Iraq the only onces who actively sided with the US were the UK, Spanish and Italian government.

Those are 3, EU has 15.

But to answer your point Europe=15 as exactly described in the community law and safeguarded by its institutions. I hope you are not falling for the divisionist angloamerican propaganda of the ruling francogerman axis. Axis for unification drive yes. Axis for control impossible if only you'd know 1/10 of EU legislature

	17-03-2004 04:30									#277
	Increase Your PM Length

I have always found it funny to hear about the "French-German dictatorship", since the Anglo-Italian axis, or heck, even the Madrid-Warsaw axis could weight as much power

	17-03-2004 04:36									#278
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Sorry if I confused you by refering to the EU as Europe. My mistake.

	17-03-2004 04:43									#279
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Spiffor I have always found it funny to hear about the "French-German dictatorship", since the Anglo-Italian axis, or heck, even the Madrid-Warsaw axis could weight as much power

Politically its perceived that Germany and France have the most common ground, and so they become an effective bloc. Italy and the UK would not agree enough for any alliance to bear fruit, and the other countries politics and economics combined would not be as big as the Franco-German union.

At least thats the perception from British Media. It also doesn't help that Germany and France are geographically (two of) the largest countries, and geographically at the heart, of the European Union. How things look on maps are obviously important to some people you understand.

	17-03-2004 04:47									#280
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Big Crunch Politically its perceived that Germany and France have the most common ground, and so they become an effective bloc. Italy and the UK would not agree enough for any alliance to bear fruit, and the other countries politics and economics combined would not be as big as the Franco-German union. At least thats the perception from British Media.

And this is a right perception. France-Germany is at the top only because the other big countries are unable to get their crap together. The only single time there was an organized resistance to the French-German decision (regarding Iraq), well, we could do nothing about it.
And last time, even when there wasn't an organized opposition (the consitution), we could do nothing about Poland's and Spain's whining.

We're only the "dictators" of Europe because of the shortcoming of our partners.

	17-03-2004 04:50									#281
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by OliverFA This post is authentic. I guarantee it 100% How do you demonstrate the authenticity of a fax? a call? a tape? Life is full of questions...

I'm not biting at this troll. Can I demonstrate anything about your identity? If I claimed on an Internet forum that I was a member of Al-Qaeda, would that be sufficient to have CNN run a newspiece on me?

quote: If terrorism benefits the right why the left made so much noise about it? oh! so much questions!

Because everyone is against terrorism.

	17-03-2004 04:51									#282
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Spiffor We're only the "dictators" of Europe because of the shortcoming of our partners.

Its not shortcomings, its disparate needs.

	17-03-2004 04:59									#283
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

France and Germany do have disparate needs. Germany wants the CAP to disappear, while France (especially Chirac) demands that the CAP remains. Germany has everything to gain with lower EU competences (at least, competences that cost money), while France has something to win from EU's funds.

Recently, Germany adamantly opposed one of Chirac's pet peeves: to reduce the sales tax to 5.5% for restaurants. It was widely covered by the French media, yet it didn't result in any chasm.

The main agreement between France and Germany is that they intend to stay the motor of the EU as a couple, and they are ready to put aside their differences to be one cohesive bloc within the EU.

If Italy, the UK, or Spain had such will, they could do the same pretty easily. For now, they did nothing but whine without adressing it seriously (and now that Aznar is gone, it only leaves Italy, UK, and Poland as "ooposition" to the French-German bloc)

	17-03-2004 05:25									#284
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

In other news, one of Al Qaeda's top men, Haj was killed today in a clash with Saudi Military Police I think it was.

	17-03-2004 05:28									#285
	Put an end to popups!

yea, 'le moteur d'europe: france et l'allemagne.' a very gallic thing, i remember learning that term in 8th grade history class. unfortunately, someone must have poured sugar in the gas tank cuz they havnt done very well in the last 10 years.

	17-03-2004 05:32									#286
	Tired of ads?

wait a second. it was al qaeda who attacked spain? wasnt it ETA? i mean they had EVERYTHING to gain and it would make perfect sense!

	17-03-2004 05:34									#287
	Suffering from ads?

That got old in the last thread.

	17-03-2004 05:37									#288
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia wait a second. it was al qaeda who attacked spain? wasnt it ETA? i mean they had EVERYTHING to gain and it would make perfect sense!

I think both were working together. The Moroccans, the bombs of Spanish origin... wouldn't surprise me.

Here are two stories, and this means a stunning blow to Al Qaeda and its operations, a bit too damn late:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...saudi_militants

"RIYADH, Saudi Arabia - Saudi Arabia pledged Tuesday to wipe out terror activity in the kingdom after a raid that killed the suspected al-Qaida chief on the Arabian peninsula — a man believed to have once been a bodyguard for Osama bin Laden (news - web sites).

Three of Saudi Arabia's 26 most-wanted militants are dead and hundreds of suspected extremists have been rounded up as a result of raids to seize weapons and Islamic militants. The latest raid, which resulted in the deaths Monday of Khaled Ali Haj and an accomplice, was thought to be an important blow to al-Qaida's regional operation."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...n_al_qaida_hunt

"WANA, Pakistan - Paramilitary troops stormed a fortress-like compound with mortars and machine-gun fire Tuesday, killing 24 suspects in a fierce crackdown on al-Qaida and Taliban fugitives in the rugged tribal regions bordering Afghanistan (news - web sites), the army spokesman said."

	17-03-2004 05:41									#289
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: God damn...no one reads CNN.com anymore

Dude, I posted that article in another thread like two days ago...

	17-03-2004 05:43									#290
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia yea, 'le moteur d'europe: france et l'allemagne.' a very gallic thing, i remember learning that term in 8th grade history class. unfortunately, someone must have poured sugar in the gas tank cuz they havnt done very well in the last 10 years.

This is the very reason why Chirac and Schröder decided to pump it up again about 14 months ago. Since then, the EU had an opportunity to go forth, especially with the constitution.

However, France's and Germany's ambitions are inherently wrong: nation-States should now step aside from the European progress, and leave supranational institutions do the European job. If it wasn't for the haggling of individual States, the constitution would have passed.

	17-03-2004 05:44									#291
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Ned BeBro, was a not you in another thread that suggested that the way end terrorism in the future was to bring good governments to the Islamic world, governments dedicated to democracy, to human rights and to economic progress. Governments that would give its people hope for the future. Only in such an environment will the the messages of the apostles of hate fall on deaf ears. But so long as the world of Islam is held in tight constraint by dictators and fundamentalists clerics who deny rights to all, and especially to women, the drumbeat of hatred hate of the West, the so-called Crusader states, will continue indefinitely. If you accept this as been fundamentally correct, your opposition making Iraq and Afghanistan democratic is incomprehensible.

Why do you think I'm opposed to democracy in Iraq and Afghanistan? I never wrote this.

	17-03-2004 05:45									#292
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Wait, the thread is now about evil France and Germany ruling the EU?

	17-03-2004 07:29									#293
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: That got old in the last thread.

and your trolls havnt?

	17-03-2004 08:18									#294
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I don't repeat them verbatim in all threads on a given subject.

	17-03-2004 09:02									#295
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Oncle Boris I need something more serious than this. Common sense would usually say that terrorism benefits the right, not the left.

Why is that?

	17-03-2004 09:09									#296
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: In another thread, Fez said there was nothing the PP could have done to stop this attack from happening. If so, then what service did the war in Iraq serve Spain's security? If being with Bush does not make Spain safer-why should the Spanish electorate stay with that boat? People make the claim AQ's aims are univesalist-world domination and all that blather-well, if after 1 year in Iraq and 2 in Afghanistan Fezzie is right and there was nothing a government like Spain's do to stop a massive terrorist attack like the one in madrid, then what has been the point? And if Fezzie is wrong and the PP government, with different priorities, could have stopped the attack-why re-elect a government that failed in securing Spain?

	17-03-2004 09:15									#297
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

The idea that al-Qaeda claims victory in Spain is completely abusurd. The war in Iraq had absolutely nothing to do with fighting al-Qaeda, and has in fact depleted resources going towards the reconstruction of Afghanistan and the destruction of al-Qaeda. In fact, how successful would the recent bombings have been if Spain had used the resources going to Iraq in March of 2003 to track down the culprits of the Casablanca bombing that month and destroy their infrastructure? Further, Zapatero has made it clear that the priority of his gov't is to go after al-Qaeda.

Not to say that Spain ought to withdraw from Iraq, just that claiming that "the terrorists win" is inane.

	17-03-2004 09:20									#298
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Ramo Zapatero has made it clear that the priority of his gov't is to go after al-Qaeda.

It's clear that al-Qaeda is not his govts priority. While he said otherwise, his actions speak louder than his words.

	17-03-2004 09:20									#299
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: The idea that al-Qaeda claims victory in Spain is completely abusurd.

Repeating that doesn't make it anymore true. Al Qaeda won a great victory in Spain, whether you wan't to admit it or not.

	17-03-2004 09:27									#300
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: It's clear that al-Qaeda is not his govts priority. While he said otherwise, his actions speak louder than his words.

Which actions? He's not in power yet.

quote: Repeating that doesn't make it anymore true. Al Qaeda won a great victory in Spain, whether you wan't to admit it or not.

Care to refute my explanation as to how it was not?