30-04-2004 03:14									#211
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The victory status screen. Strangely, the cultural victory in 1946 AD (100'000) did not pop up.

More details early next week...

Attachment: status.jpg
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	30-04-2004 03:16									#212
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F*UCKING HELL!

ALL HAIL MOUNTAIN SAGE, AESONS SUCCESSOR!!

	30-04-2004 05:16									#213
	Inflate your Upload Space

Way to go MS. I am still looking forward to hearing how to get the tech lead without trimming the AI.

Was this a large map?

	30-04-2004 05:51									#214
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I stand by my claim in another thread. Poly is the home of the kamikaze pilots with 20-odd successful missions

	30-04-2004 06:13									#215
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The Champagne flows and the people dance in the streets my lord for a great event has occurred. Hail the conqueror!

	01-05-2004 01:43									#216
	Inflate your Upload Space

Here is what I have seen as a typically situation. After the GL expires the KAI runs off with the tech race and I have nothing to trade and no other AI's are in the race either soon afterwards.

Now at SciMeth, the Chinese were running at a 4 turn pace for a long time, I could must 25-30 turn. They were not much bigger than me, I was #2 in all the good stuff (#1 income).

I was staying right up with them by using cash to steal everything they learned. During my GA I was going over 500gpt, now over 300. Steals are now about 1300 and rising (more if done safely). I had build up a lot of cash.

I started the ToE the same turn as them and had an 8 turns to finish, no prebuild was possible. They started in 1430 and finished in 1430 (4 turns). No Leader was used as they were not at war.

I did manage to beat them to the Voyage with a great prebuild.
BTW the city I used was 76 shields no corruption. Had factory and coal plant. Hospital was build with the shields from the ToE, so it will grow now.

Last edited by vmxa1 on 01-05-2004 at 02:09

	01-05-2004 01:47									#217
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Here is a map of the US landing two horses next my infantry and calvs. I soften them up with arties. I let them land to try for a leader as I have only gotten two so far:

Attachment: map_1455as.jpg
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	01-05-2004 01:49									#218
	Remove this text

Here is the F1 shot:

Attachment: f1_1415ad.jpg
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	01-05-2004 01:50									#219
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quote: Strangely, the cultural victory in 1946 AD (100'000) did not pop up

That is because you had a rival with at least 1/2 of your culture. If you reach 100k culture, and you have a rival with 50k or more, you don't win.

-Arrian

	01-05-2004 01:51									#220
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BTW I screwed this up a bit. I should have used Ironclad as my research as soon as I got to the age. I was not thinking. So I lost a lot of turns being bounced off of different projects, very dumb. I probably would have learned it by now or soon. Using one scientist.

	01-05-2004 01:54									#221
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian That is because you had a rival with at least 1/2 of your culture. If you reach 100k culture, and you have a rival with 50k or more, you don't win. -Arrian

Yes you need twice as much as the next civ to win with culture and be beyond the levels requirements (160K for huge?). The 20K city still flies though.

	01-05-2004 01:57									#222
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Here is F11:

Attachment: f11_1415ad.jpg
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	01-05-2004 02:04									#223
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Another funny thing is look at the Aztecs with some 11 cities and way behind in tech and the F3 advisors says I am weak next to them. We shall soon see. As soon as I aquire or build two more armies, I will pay them a visit to get some dyes. I want two infantry armies to stop any counter attack (I hope). I will have to ship them as 3x and add the fourth after arrival. Well I may get transports before then, if China is going that way.

They took Sanitation and Steel with the ToE and may be going for flight or tanks with cruisers along the way. If so I plan to try to steal the transport tech and upgrade.

I have maybe 100 units for military, maybe more at this point out of 177.

Last edited by vmxa1 on 01-05-2004 at 02:11

	01-05-2004 02:11									#224
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Practical use of tech stealing? Tell me more on how you did this...!
(other than clickling 'steal' )

	01-05-2004 05:05									#225
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I racked up a ton of cash with no research from right after the GL was built. I used the cheap way most of the time as I did not care if they caught me most of the time.

I used safely when we got close to the ToE as I did not want to be prevented from stealing at that point by war. I only have had one declared war from it so far.

It is a joke. I once did three steals in the same turn with immediately and got away with it. Maybe it is a pay back for no SGL's and only 2 MGL at that time.

I did make a few trades for tech, but not many. Note I have not built the IA as I think it will make it harder to steal and cost more.
I do not know that for a fact, but why rock the boat now?

	01-05-2004 11:37									#226
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You say you sent a boy to do a mans job (yup), no problem.

I did not follow the rule of sending enough units to take the city. I sent too many arties and defenders. So I used my ships to surround all the water tiles and my armies to cut of the land access and ground them down.

It was a pain though. I have augmented the forces with some tanks now and will heal and punish.

Attachment: surrounded.jpg
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	03-05-2004 12:26									#227
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The settings: 1.22, large edited map, 5 billions, warm, wet. Barbarians sedentary, aggressiveness lowest. Spain vs. Celts, Aztecs, Arabia, Inca, Zulus, China, Egypt, Maya.

Editor: added a second fur and a wheat on the home island. All civs separated by 3 ocean tiles (with a few exceptions). All civs ‘pre-positioned’ on the map except the Maya (random). No tinkering with resources or luxuries.

Some highlights (to compare games):

410 BC: Glibrary
50 AD: Republic
250 AD: new Palace
300 AD: Medieval Times
370 AD: FP
670 AD: Sun Tsu
890 AD: Knights Templar & Leo
1130 AD: Copernicus
1220 AD: Magellan & GA
1290 AD: Smith Trading Co.
1420 AD: Newton University
1475 AD: Industrial Ages
1730 AD: Universal Suffrage
1754 AD: ToE
1778 AD: Hoover Dam
1802 AD: Battle Medecine
1812 AD: Wall Street
1954 AD: 100’000 cultural
1984 AD: United Nations and diplomatic vctory.

Yes, this is a Sid game and not a Warlord one.

Now, before I give away some ‘spoilers’ about how I managed it, I’ll post the 4000 BC save and you can try it. Let’s see if it was a ‘freak’ win or if this kind of settings will lead to more victories from you.

Attachment: i, 4000 bc.sav
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	03-05-2004 12:27									#228
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian That is because you had a rival with at least 1/2 of your culture. If you reach 100k culture, and you have a rival with 50k or more, you don't win. -Arrian

See, even I have still something to learn... Good that I didn't stop and decided to go for a diplo win

	04-05-2004 08:31									#229
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The game is realy dragging on. I am in the modern era and have eliminated Aztecs. That is the only civ to die so far.

I just hit the Arabs and razed a city and founded my own. They have 248 pikes, 50 long bows, 12 rifles, 1 galleon and 251 medinf.

No workers at all and hence never railed the land, even though they have coal. I am guessing they are at the max that they can pay for right now. They had only 8 cities.

I helped them by making it 7 cities and no galleons, 198 pikes, 43 lb, 20 rifles (now they could upgrade a few) and 210 MI.

I cut all the roads nearby with bombers and destroyers. I have not landed a large party. 18 transports with 10 armies and mostly tanks and arties. If they do as they normally have, they will send in attackers for the new city. It has 2 mechinf armies and lots of tanks. If it looks like it could get ugly I will move in 3 more infantry armies and a tank army.

I won't pillage as I want the land improvements. The tricky part if to settle the new cities so as to not expose any places for other civs to land.

Used my 21st mgl to rush an airport to contact.

	04-05-2004 08:46									#230
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China is still ahead in score and land and pop, but I am closing in.

Funny thing is I have 13K culture in my capitol and could win via the 20k. I have enough empire culture to hold off any loss that way.

The space ship is the issue. China has the early part and I am building them. I have a bit more than twice their production in my capitol so I can just beat them in builds.

I aced them in recent wonders by using an extra tile and being one turn faster.

We both have nukes. America is not very strong, but has about 1200 troops! More than even China (700) and Egypt (800). This likely due to Demo vs Facism.

I have 4 luxs and China has 2 I don't and Egypt 1 and US 1.

I have been 50 turning for Ecology and have 12 or 13 turns to go. I hope China stays on the lower track. I cannot do anything for research. I am thinking of going Commie here. I do not need to do anything as I will probably not go after anyone else and have about 16K. I will hang till I get Eco or China does, whichever comes first.

Anyone know if I will still generate culture will I switch?

	06-05-2004 17:05									#231
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So, only 1 download so far. I understand therefore that only 1 player is interested in winning at Sid...
Am I correct?

	06-05-2004 21:13									#232
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quote: Originally posted by Mountain Sage So, only 1 download so far. I understand therefore that only 1 player is interested in winning at Sid... Am I correct?

Don’t be discouraged oh sage one. I, for instance, am interested but am busy closing in on a Sid finish of my own but turns take forever if you’re not playing builder. I am interested in hearing about your solutions if you’re ready to post them. I’ll download and take a look at your map and see if my guesses about your game are correct.

Edit; Is your game 1.22? My 1.15b gave error reading when I tried to open it.

	06-05-2004 21:46									#233
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Yes he is at 1.22.

MS I have beaten Sid with a non warmonger strategy. By that I mean, I did not generate massive armies to smash other civs as you see in SirPlebs game.

I just could not face another island game on a huge map at Sid, right now. Watching hundreds of unit slam into your city is tedious. Building up lots of ships to haul units over to another island gets painful after a time.

I space shiped the game, but could have won with culture (20K). I could have gone for Dom or Conquest, but that would have taken a life time.

Looking forward to your report.

	07-05-2004 13:32									#234
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Drachen,

Go ahead with your guesses and I'll let you know if they are correct. I prefer not to give away any 'secrets' yet, since I'd like to have them confirmed by somebody who played the game the same style.
Don't you worry, those 'secrets' will not be licensed!

	07-05-2004 13:48									#235
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vmxa1, how can you get a 20k culture victory at sid?

at best one can get 1 single ancient wonder and of the medieval ones probably max. 3 if lucky. imho sistine's is out of the race except with a perfect prebuild (speculating, when you're going to get theology from the GL) and probably shakespeare's (8 culture) is quite possible. but how on earth can you manage 20000 culture points in one city?

i'll have a go at this new game when i find time. so far i gave up all huge games because of tediosity, but i guess this is my only chance ever in getting far at sid level

	07-05-2004 17:54									#236
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im gunna give ur save a go starting at the weekend MS.

this will be my first attempt at Sid. started earlier this week but spent 2 hours restarting untill i got a start i was happy with, never did get that start i was looking for.

	07-05-2004 18:49									#237
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quote: Originally posted by sabrewolf vmxa1, how can you get a 20k culture victory at sid? at best one can get 1 single ancient wonder and of the medieval ones probably max. 3 if lucky.

You should read my thread more carefully.
My capital almost got 20'000 K (I would have got them if I had gone for the space race) and I got all medieval and modern wonders except Sistine....

	07-05-2004 20:13									#238
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Yes I normally would expect to get only the GL and if I have Ivory the SoZ from ancient times.

Middle Ages would be even worse and I may get none if things go poorly, but I hope for at least 1.

I did much better in Ancient as I got MoM as well as the normal two. I got Smiths only in Middle ages and I was close to a few others.

I got Manhatttan, Seti, Internet and Apollo as well.

None of those were big culture contributors as they were so late.

Here is the break down:

Palace 1
Temple 2
Lib 3
Cath 3
Uni 4
Colosseum 2
Lab 2
GL 6
Smith 3
Manhat 2
Seti 3
Internet 4
SoZ 4
MoM 2
Pentagon 1
Wall St 2
Apollo 2
IA 1

Don't forget the 1000 years doubling. In the end I was getting 74 per turn. Egypt was second in city level. China was nearly double my empire level, but I was gain a handful of points every turn, so they could not get there.

Not that I build the small wonders in the same city to gain the extra culture. I was forced to do a few elsewhere.

	07-05-2004 20:17									#239
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The main thing is that Egypt got two early wonders and a few others were grabbed by other civs. This allowed China to have large overall culture from the number of cities it had and its getting most of the wonders.

It prevented Egypt from become the single city power that it would have, since it could not get any wonders after the first two.

China spread its wonders over a several cities and lost the boost. This let me become the the number one city with most everything concentrated in the capitol.

	08-05-2004 00:07									#240
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quote: Originally posted by Mountain Sage Drachen, Go ahead with your guesses and I'll let you know if they are correct. I prefer not to give away any 'secrets' yet, since I'd like to have them confirmed by somebody who played the game the same style. Don't you worry, those 'secrets' will not be licensed!

Hey MS;

I think I'd like to take a look at your map before I do too much guessing and until I load 1.22 that's not gonna happen. I'm looking forward to your report though since I can't really see how you got all those middle age wonders if there was anywhere near a normal distribution of good ground.