04-04-2004 04:59									#61
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

i started a game with 1.20 a couple of days ago, and tried to load it in 1.22. no dice.

i get the following popups when trying to load it:
DataIO operation System Error: DATE
DataIO operation System Error: PLGI
DataIO operation System Error: PLGI (again)
DataIO operation System Error: DATE (again)
DataIO operation System Error: DATE (again)
DataIO operation System Error: CNSL

the i get a "load error" in c3c itself, "ERROR READING FILE".

	04-04-2004 05:14									#62
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Any mods installed?

	04-04-2004 05:53									#63
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Interesting.

I got similar error when trying to load one my old savegames.
Savgame was from a scenario with unmoded rules.

Saved games from sceanrios with moded rules worked perfectly.

	04-04-2004 06:02									#64
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

The stock rules are no longer stored in the save games. They are saved only for mods. That's why.

1.20 has different stock rules than 1.22 because of the removal of the Radio tech (it was not really removed in 1.20), so the 1.22 game freaks out when it finds information in a save about the Radio.

	04-04-2004 06:08									#65
	Increase Your PM Length

Makes sense. So old saves of unmodded games can't be loaded after 1.22?

	04-04-2004 13:26									#66
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Makes sense. So old saves of unmodded games can't be loaded after 1.22?

Seems so. I just spent 2 hours testing why my old 1.15 PBEM (mod) did load on 1.22 but newly created (without mods) 1.20 PBEM game didnt load on 1.22.

Should have read this thread before all that testing Saves time to read first, test after

This falls into 'bug' category quite clearly. I think people should be able to continue old unmodded PBEM games.

	04-04-2004 13:39									#67
	Put an end to popups!

No it's not a bug.

It's an unavoidable feature.

And it would not matter in the long run.

	04-04-2004 13:56									#68
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quote: Originally posted by player1 No it's not a bug. It's an unavoidable feature. And it would not matter in the long run.

OK. Not a bug then. This seems like Microsoft: "its not a bug, its a feature"

But it would be nice if us PBEM players would have known about such thing before half of the players have upgraded to 1.22 and are wondering "gee why some of my games work and some dont"

It gets most of those PBEM games killed which dont work anymore in 1.22, because many of the players are not so good with dual installs etc, and keep playing only with 1.22 version.

	04-04-2004 18:02									#69
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quote: Originally posted by alexman The stock rules are no longer stored in the save games. They are saved only for mods. That's why.

I remember that staock rules being saved in save-game was introduced in one of vanilla patches.

When this got removed?


Minus: thos bugs already mentioned
Plus: you could change rules on the fly?

	04-04-2004 22:49									#70
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

It got removed in C3C.
Apparently Breakaway programmers did that. It was a Friaxis/Breakaway miscommunicaton.

	04-04-2004 23:49									#71
	PBEM Blackout Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

There were some long-standing bugs in PBEM that allowed players to aquire information about other players due to game mechanic flaws. For this reason, players concerned with fair play (myself included) didn't have a clear idea of what the bug was. The work-around was to not pay attention to the bugs until they passed.

Most of the time I've seen descriptions about the screen showing an opponent's map information when asking for the password. The apparent fix for this has been to black out the map entirely until after the production phase, robbing the player of their own map information for cities with new builds, riots, etc. and forcing them to subsequently cycle through all cities in order to track down these issues arising during the initial phase.

I have patched up to 1.22 and would like to avoid going back, but from my recollection, there were two distinct bugs that should have been fixed here; The ability to bypass passwords was the worst of them and, as far as I've seen, it has been fixed successfully. The other problem I have yet to see anyone accurately describe, and the fix for it has been akin to swatting a knat with a sledgehammer. Judging from the descriptions of the 1.20 online MP load problems and the 'blacked out screen' they experienced, I wouldn't be suprised if it was this sledgehammer that bashed the hell out of MP functionality, too.

When the password screen came up pre-1.18, the map was shown behind it centered on the previous player's capital. Contrary to the common description, there was nothing wrong with the fog-of-war, as that was displayed correctly. The new player gained no new information about the map's terrain, merely a vague idea of where the previous player's civilization was located. It seems this 'glitch' could have been handled much better by picking arbitrary map coordinates to initialize the screen with upon loading or by initializing the map directly after the password is correctly entered.

	05-04-2004 00:03									#72
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well arbitary map coord can still reveal something.

the fog of war needs to be removed immediately after a player successfully authenticates themselves.. not a couple of steps later

	05-04-2004 00:13									#73
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IIRC, the fog-of-war that was displayed pre-1.18 was that of the new player entering the password. Everything shown on the screen was the same as what would be seen if you scrolled to that point later in your turn. The only problem (short of bypassing the password) was that a player could infer the coordinates of the previous player's capitol as the initial center of the screen.

	05-04-2004 00:34									#74
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quote: Originally posted by alexman It got removed in C3C. Apparently Breakaway programmers did that. It was a Friaxis/Breakaway miscommunicaton.

So that's why there is MPTournament.biq

To force players not to cheat by modifing original conquest.biq


P.S.
By the way, MPTournamanet and other optional BIQs still have Radio for tech.

	05-04-2004 01:04									#75
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by player1 By the way, MPTournamanet and other optional BIQs still have Radio for tech.

Not these ones. I modded them to fit as explained in the readme (no radio, different prerequisites ,etc.):

	05-04-2004 01:42									#76
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Hello, The last patch I have installed was the BETA one. (I can't recall the number right now)

If I want to install this new patch must I uninstall the BETA one first? If so, how would I do that?

I have heard many complaints and problems so far in this thread. I realise that with 1.22 if fixes some of these but there still seem to be problems. Would it be wise not to install either of these two patches?

Thank you for your replies, Jerh9e1k5

	05-04-2004 02:17									#77
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

1.22 runs fine for me.

	05-04-2004 02:20									#78
	Increase the size of your Attachments

122 needs 120, but I don't think it needs any others. This should mean that any patches prior to 120 should be fine.

	05-04-2004 22:38									#79
	Remove this text

We just arrived in the industrial era about 20 turns ago and all of a sudden my friend Joan has more than 11,000 gold.

I don't like the look of it. This was 1.20 version.

	05-04-2004 22:40									#80
	Tired of ads?

Was she able to account for this via trades and income or is it a glitch?

	06-04-2004 00:06									#81
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I never call something a glitch because Alexman then posts on why it's my dumb mistake but it looks like a glitch to me. If anyone else runs into this wierd gold buildup, then we will suspect the return of something like the former gold bug.

	06-04-2004 00:13									#82
	Remove this text

Yes, don't you dare call something a glitch without my conscent!



Seriously, how can it be the old gpt bug, if Joan got 11,000 'all of a sudden'? I don't suppose you have a save from the turn before she got rich, do you?

	06-04-2004 20:11									#83
	seed-1984, large/huge, 80% water, pangaea bug Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I have noticed a strange possible coding bug with the map generation system.

I have only found it with one particular seed, but it may represent a flaw of some sort in the algorithm used to code the coastline.

Generating a map with the following parameters gives rise to the peculiarity:
80% Ocean
Pangaea
Huge/Large
seed 1984

The map generated is clearly not a pangaea, instead appearing to be more like an archipeligo. The remaining parameters (age/climate/temperature) have no effect on the coastline and resulting land-shape.

I would have discarded this as an random occurance at the 1984 seed, however i noticed something else that was peculiar. When I generated a map with the same parameters (80% Ocean/Pangaea) on a tiny, small, or standard sized map, an acceptable pangaea map was generated. So far for every other seed (and i have checked hundreds of seeds) the basic coastline was the same for every size of the map (assuming the ocean coverage and land form were held constant). A hypothetical crescent-shaped pangaea on tiny would remain a crescent-shaped pangaea on huge, albeit a much more detailed crescent-shaped pangaea.

Here the coastline is vastly different for the tiny/small/standard vs the large/huge maps. I present this information out of a hope that it might help firaxis with improving map generation (since i obviously have no access to the source code I cannot check to see if there is a 1984 seed flaw in the map generation algorithm).

	06-04-2004 21:12									#84
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Sorry, but I'm not so good in eglish and it was an effort to me to read all the posts in this thread.

The questions are: can we use the 1.22 patch without trouble or is better to wait a little?

What about the 1.25 patch? Is real?

Thanks

	06-04-2004 21:51									#85
	Got spare money?

I haven't heard of a v1.25 patch...

	06-04-2004 21:51									#86
	Increase Your PM Length

It seems no nasty stuff is flying around with 1.22, but you will no be able to load previous saves.

It is believed that 1.25 or some such is planned.

	06-04-2004 21:52									#87
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Ah... Thanks for the clearification vmxa.

	06-04-2004 23:21									#88
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I think that some of the posters accidentaly said number 1.25 in order to represent next full patch and then rumors started to fly (since noone officialy ever sad anything similar).

Fact:
-there is no such thing as 1.25
-but there is full version of 1.22 now

	07-04-2004 00:23									#89
	Inflate your Upload Space

it seems that there will be a new patch (a *final* one, not a beta), but it has been delayed for quite some time yet, as is stated in the official civ3 site.

	07-04-2004 01:07									#90
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

"Seriously, how can it be the old gpt bug, if Joan got 11,000 'all of a sudden'? I don't suppose you have a save from the turn before she got rich, do you?"

No saves. This was a game started on 1.15 and moved to 1.20. Hopefully, it just turns out to be a freak.