 |
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
finbar
|
 |
Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:35
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Havak
German and French culture Finbar – the great composers cannot be raised in association with UK culture after all.  |
Well, there's Benjamin Britten. Um. Errrr. And those drunken f*ckwits from Oasis. Mmmm. I take your point.
quote:
When do the tri-nations start? Burke has been contracted by the Barbarians for the now regular series of games against the home nations starting the last weekend in May. |
Tri-Nations are mid-July to mid-August. It's reported in this morning's paper that he will be released from his contract at the end of the Tri-Nations and not held until December. The ARU now has a policy of considering early releases subject to length of service and the proximity of the release to the end of the contract. Mortlock is probably going to miss the two Tests against Scotland with his knee injury. I suspect Eddie wants Burke around as a back up. I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised, though, if Lote Tuquiri has a run at outside centre. Eddie has long thought it's where Tuquiri really belongs.
quote:
He needs to understand where he is going. London Irish always end up mid to low table despite having spent a lot of money. They could almost be London Tribe on their own. Why didn’t he come to Tigers? |
You obviously didn't get in quickly enough. He has shades of Ben Cohen about him with his size and strength, and he could even be quicker than Cohen.
quote:
He showed huge potential last summer – but the RWC semi did him no good (not any other AB of course). Last June I would have said give him another decade and he could be 80% of full Lantern jawed potential – but now the jury is back out… |
He suffered badly during the Crusaders' early-season crap form. They were, inexplicably, a rabble. They're 100% better now, but still, I would opine, at least 25% down on what they were at their best. They still misfire and their once impeccable defence is leaky. I think Jack is still the best of their locks. He probably just needs some confidence. He missed last week with injury.
quote:
We are still the best side in the NH as you well know. France consists mainly of Toulouse and Stade Francais players so there is no threat there. And Ireland were just lucky. And the earth really is flat too!  |
quote:
Clive is due to name the squad today – and once again there is the senior squad heading south whilst a development side heads to the Churchill cup in the Americas. Current indications are the young lads will head to America whilst the best vets he can muster head down south. I’ll let you know when the details are out. |
Bring on the vets!
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Havak
|
 |
Swing Low, Sweet Chariots.
Aug 1999
time: 05:35
|
|
quote:
Eddie has long thought it's where Tuquiri really belongs. |
According to reports here he is considering returning to the inferior code with Gold Coast?
quote:
He has shades of Ben Cohen about him with his size and strength, and he could even be quicker than Cohen. |
Tigers are notorious for their rather casual attitude to signings so I am hardly surprised we lost him. I’ll keep an eye out for him when the exiles are on the box next season. I hope someone told him that London Irish actually play in Reading (boring little town)?
quote:
Bring on the vets! |
It’s an interesting squad – but more on that later.
quote:
I think he has a fairly chronic back problem. He's been coming off the bench for most of the season. |
That would excuse him a great deal – bad backs I can sympathise with.
The Wallabies still look weak in the second row – Sharp, Vickerman, Plank? Looks weak up against Shaw and Grewcock on paper.
So the big news I think is that Clive is ‘resting’ Ben Kay, Greenwood and Robinson. He has hinted this is because he wants them fresh for the autumn tests. Kay has certainly been struggling – he has been coming off the bench for Tigers and does look tired. Greenwood was widely rumoured not to go as his form has not been good – and Robinson has been reported as claiming he is exhausted (he has played rugby pretty much non-stop since the 6N in 2001).
Greenwood had something to say about the tour yesterday:
"Everybody is writing us off already but that is nothing new. We are used to that. They did that last year and look what happened. There will still be a lot of quality players on that plane who enjoy being told they have got no chance."
This did bring a smile to my face as I recalled all the pre-match media talk last year of how many the ABs would stuff us by.
As for the squad itself eleven of the boys are 24 or under – and as I tipped young Harry Ellis travels as third scrum half. However Dawson is struggling for fitness and Gommers not playing well so the lad may well get his baptism of fire.
Other Tigers making the trip are Julian White and Martin Corry – both players being key to Tigers resurgence recently. Ollie Smith sadly misses out – he picked up an injury is Saturday’s game with Quins. But that is good news for the SH as it means the centres travelling are Stuart Abbott (Wasps), Mike Catt (Bath), Mike Tindall (Bath), Fraser Waters (Wasps) – and that looks weak to me.
Anyway here is the full squad:
Full-backs/Wings: Phil Christophers (Leeds), Ben Cohen (Northampton), Josh Lewsey (Wasps), James Simpson-Daniel (Gloucester), Tom Voyce (Wasps)
Centres: Stuart Abbott (Wasps), Mike Catt (Bath), Mike Tindall (Bath), Fraser Waters (Wasps)
Fly-halves: Olly Barkley (Bath), Charlie Hodgson (Sale)
Scrum-halves: Matt Dawson (Northampton), Harry Ellis (Leicester), Andy Gomarsall (Gloucester)
Hookers: Mark Regan (Leeds), Steve Thompson (Northampton), Andy Titterrell (Sale)
Props: David Flatman (Bath), Matt Stevens (Bath), Julian White (Leicester), Trevor Woodman (Gloucester)
Locks: Steve Borthwick (Bath), Danny Grewcock (Bath), Simon Shaw (Wasps)
Back-row: Martin Corry (Leicester), Lawrence Dallaglio (Wasps), Richard Hill (Saracens), Chris Jones (Sale), Michael Lipman (Bath), Joe Worsley (Wasps)
So it’s the same old story – they look more than powerful enough up front to master anything thrown at them – but the backs, particularly the midfield, look suspect. Traditional England?
We remain as far as I know the only side that holds two summer tours and the squad being sent to America is also interesting as young lock Louis Deacon gets his call up. It can only be a matter of time before he makes the full side. Also travelling with this squad is Tigers hooker George Chuter – who just over three years ago declared he was done with rugby and went back packing in some colonial backwater for a few months before realising Leicester was a much nicer place to be. It’s a remarkable renaissance for the lad.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
finbar
|
|
Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:35
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Havak
According to reports here he is considering returning to the inferior code with Gold Coast? |
He's been linked with the Brisbane Broncos (the team he came from), several clubs in Sydney, and a new team that's being proposed for the Gold Coast. The word is that he will stay in rugby. Apart from anything else, with club salary caps in L*****, no one could afford him. Apparently he's looking at around $500,000 a year and the ARU doesn't have a salary cap.
quote:
Tigers are notorious for their rather casual attitude to signings so I am hardly surprised we lost him. I’ll keep an eye out for him when the exiles are on the box next season. I hope someone told him that London Irish actually play in Reading (boring little town)? |
Mmmm. I've been through Reading. Poor bugger. Being a sophisticated Sydney lad, he was probably thinking somewhere in Chelsea.
quote:
The Wallabies still look weak in the second row – Sharp, Vickerman, Plank? Looks weak up against Shaw and Grewcock on paper. |
Gee, they're your starting locks? How different from last November.
There are a couple of young chaps here, too. Chisolm from the Brumbies is one. Lots of potential, from the U21 Wallabies, but inexperienced in the bigger time. He should make it onto the bench against Scotland. His Brumbies partner, the Fijian Samo, might even sneak a spot against the Scots too. Bit of a freak - massive man, he can carry the ball in one hand like a pea; good jumper, solid around the ground, runs like the wind, sometimes plays wing for his club. Scary proposition.
quote:
So the big news I think is that Clive is ‘resting’ Ben Kay, Greenwood and Robinson. |
Well, from the last time I saw them, the only one you'll miss is Robinson, and even then I'm not sure that he produces often enough. Frankly, I think it's the Greenwoods of the world who should be first out your door come rebuilding.
quote:
But that is good news for the SH as it means the centres travelling are Stuart Abbott (Wasps), Mike Catt (Bath), Mike Tindall (Bath), Fraser Waters (Wasps) – and that looks weak to me. |
Mmmm. So whose hand will Tindall be holding this time? And Catt's still around? I suspect Stirling Mortlock will be seeing a faith healer if that's what it takes to get onto the field against that bunch.
quote:
So it’s the same old story – they look more than powerful enough up front to master anything thrown at them – but the backs, particularly the midfield, look suspect. Traditional England? |
Missing, of course, the most important component of all. Speaking of which, who's skipper? The Nose?
quote:
who just over three years ago declared he was done with rugby and went back packing in some colonial backwater for a few months before realising Leicester was a much nicer place to be. |
The Leicester CIA strikes again. 
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
finbar
|
|
Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:35
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Havak
That’s a tidy wage – does it incorporate his S12 contract (ie is that directly with the ARU too?) |
Possibly not incorporating S12 money. The recent big money buys - Rogers, Sailor , and Tuquiri - were done by the ARU. The S12 franchises have caps on what they can pay players. Once they signed with the ARU, they were free to decide which S12 outfit they joined. The tussle for Tuquri's services went on forever because the franchises couldn't outbid each other because of the payment cap. It came down to opportunity, environment, etc.
quote:
They are the pair that played NZ Maori. Grewcock broke a toe early in the RWC or would probably have been on the bench in the final. Shaw was the most controversial omission from the squad – and also missed the six nations through injury. He is a cracking player in excellent form – albeit another ‘WASP’ As a combination they should do well. |
Yes, but neither are You Know Who.
quote:
So Chisolm and Samo have been the ones keeping Giffin shining pine? Samo sounds like one to look out for.  |
Yes, Chisolm and Samo have been the surprises of the comp. When the Brumbies lost Vickerman and Plank, it was thought they would struggle for locks. Nucifora brought Chisolm down from Queensland with him and nurtured him for a couple of years. Samo - well, he'd been there for a couple of seasons coming off the bench and providing great entertainment. He became a cult hero for the Brumbie supporters. Suddenly, given starting responsibility, he proved he could actually do the job. He's still very raw and will never be a classic lock, but trying to stop 6' 5" and 16 stone with the speed and agility of a winger will always offer the oppo a headache.
quote:
There’s no doubt the Wallaby centre line will be ‘better’ – but will it matter if your pack is rolling backwards at fifty mph? |
Well, your pack isn't last November's pack either. We shall see.
quote:
The nose is indeed skipper – perhaps the best news of all for NZ and Australia? |
quote:
I’d still like to see Jonno there – for the sheer intimidation value as opponents know whatever they throw at him he will not break. Dally certainly does no inspire the same feeling. |
I'll just keep quoting that match against the ABs last year when the cards flowed. One man saved England that day. I'll wait to see who you have to perform that feat on a regular basis.
quote:
Hmm didn’t you say Mortlock is a post grad in a science discipline? Out of the tri-nations injured? On a short term Wallaby deal? He seems ripe for us to talk to (and Saracens then sign). |
Leaving aside the fact that he will probably take over the captaincy from George, dream on.
quote:
Oh I almost forgot - the only genuine openside going is uncapped. George and Phil will be salivating already? |
And they're both in jolly good form. Now, let's talk about your flankers. One in particular. Mr Lipman. Obviously you had it mind to mention that he's not only Australian born, but a former Australian U-19 representative. In fact, he was recently named in his Sydney club's all-time best President's XV. Mmmmm? 
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Havak
|
|
Swing Low, Sweet Chariots.
Aug 1999
time: 05:35
|
|
quote:
It came down to opportunity, environment, etc. |
And he chose the Waratahs even so? 
Still as long as that ARU contract is in place there is no money offer anywhere in the world that could tempt him away I suspect.
quote:
Yes, but neither are You Know Who. |
Well no one will ever be that again will they.
Shaw is certainly in the form of his life – and may prove a real handful. Grewcock has surprised me in that he has done a reasonable job trying to fill very large shoes. As a pairing they are better than anything we saw in Wattle last November – but I guess the new ACT guys might challenge that next month?
quote:
He's still very raw and will never be a classic lock, but trying to stop 6' 5" and 16 stone with the speed and agility of a winger will always offer the oppo a headache. |
So from the Lomu mould? Meaning he will be entirely useless against every other team but England?
quote:
Well, your pack isn't last November's pack either. We shall see. |
It isn’t – but it’s still very powerful, extremely experienced and in my opinion way ahead of what it will be facing. Backy and Johnson are huge lossesof course – but Vickery not so as he has been playing on reputation for over a year. White will actually improve the scrumagging I suspect. If he has the courage to play Flatman instead of Woodman the discipline should be better too. A backrow of Hill/Dally/Jones/Corry – it’s solid enough – and more physical that what it will be facing.
Keep your eye on Chris Jones – he will feature. He is a new breed of English loose forward –startlingly fast and very effective in the loose – not that good at the core job of a flanker in the breakdown. He was described here last weekend on Sky as very “Super 12 like” which believe it or not is not intended as a compliment.
quote:
I'll wait to see who you have to perform that feat on a regular basis. |
We have to pin our hopes on the IRB giving us a referee who knows the game this time around. English players binned for slowing ball – Kiwis given medals for receiving 5M forward passes.
Though they will probably give us that muppet Lewis who practically gifted France the six nations with his ineptness.
quote:
Leaving aside the fact that he will probably take over the captaincy from George, dream on. |
You would be amazed how fast a player can go from golden boy to nothing. Did you notice VD did not make either tour? And he is playing really well right now – I would imagine he hates Clive at the moment. Cue Finbar to
quote:
Obviously you had it mind to mention that he's not only Australian born, but a former Australian U-19 representative. |
But I did mention him. Who do you think the uncapped player was?
I didn’t name him because not only is he Australian he also plays for the Scum – sorry, I mean “Baaaaath”.
Just a thought here – how much would it p*** the Aussies and Kiwis off is England win three from three? I get the impression that elements of Kiwi rugby at least have assumed they have suddenly leap frogged us (without even playing their new line up yet). At least Eddie is observing the usual pre-match pseudo respectful banter – though it does crack me up that he only ever refers to CW as ‘Sir Clive’ in that wonderful mickey taking way of his.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
finbar
|
|
Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:35
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Havak
And he chose the Waratahs even so? |
In terms of opportunity, the Brumbies were already loaded with players of his type. The Reds, at that stage, were in the middle of yet another coaching upheaval which put him off going there, even though he's from Queensland. It probably wasn't a difficult choice in the end.
quote:
Still as long as that ARU contract is in place there is no money offer anywhere in the world that could tempt him away I suspect. |
That's actually why I think his decision is about more than money. If it were simply that, the ARU can easily outbid anyone else. He's a religious chap, fond of family, and the one problem with rugby that he has voiced is the amount of travel and time away from family. Whatever, Wendell is pretty confident he will stay with rugby, and they're very close mates.
quote:
As a pairing they are better than anything we saw in Wattle last November – |
You really should do away with those aluminium saucepans.
quote:
So from the Lomu mould? Meaning he will be entirely useless against every other team but England? |
Fingers crossed!
quote:
Keep your eye on Chris Jones – he will feature. He is a new breed of English loose forward –startlingly fast and very effective in the loose – not that good at the core job of a flanker in the breakdown. He was described here last weekend on Sky as very “Super 12 like” which believe it or not is not intended as a compliment. |
You mean he can actually break into a run?
quote:
We have to pin our hopes on the IRB giving us a referee who knows the game this time around. English players binned for slowing ball – Kiwis given medals for receiving 5M forward passes. |
I'll leave that one to the Kiwi cousins.
quote:
Though they will probably give us that muppet Lewis who practically gifted France the six nations with his ineptness. |
I'd leave that one to Tamerlin except he's probably down the library looking up Beethoven in an encyclopedia! 
quote:
You would be amazed how fast a player can go from golden boy to nothing. Did you notice VD did not make either tour? And he is playing really well right now – I would imagine he hates Clive at the moment. Cue Finbar to |
Who needs a cue?
quote:
But I did mention him. Who do you think the uncapped player was?
I didn’t name him because not only is he Australian he also plays for the Scum – sorry, I mean “Baaaaath”. |
A nifty sidestep - straight into a Butch James tackle. So how many foreign-born players in the squad is it? How many changed countries to get a game of rugby?
quote:
Just a thought here – how much would it p*** the Aussies and Kiwis off is England win three from three? I get the impression that elements of Kiwi rugby at least have assumed they have suddenly leap frogged us (without even playing their new line up yet). At least Eddie is observing the usual pre-match pseudo respectful banter – though it does crack me up that he only ever refers to CW as ‘Sir Clive’ in that wonderful mickey taking way of his. |
Yes, well, he has a sense of humour. Lady Clive doesn't.
I'm happy to bet you 10 Civ gold now that England doesn't win three from three.
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
finbar
|
|
Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:35
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Havak
To Aussie Joe Q Public that explanation must make good sense. To an outsider it is harder to understand – ACT are clearly the only franchise an ambitious player should want to join if he craves silverware. He needs to back himself to beat those other similar players to a starting spot in the franchise. |
Equally, there's the challenge of contributing to lifting an aspiring team. You never know, climate might also have entered the equation. He's Fijian, via Brisbane. Canberra is hardly tropical.
quote:
On which note I picked up a copy of the PC game Pro Rugby Manager 2004 the other day. Created by a French developer and poorly translated it lists the SH Premier club Tournament as ‘Top 12’. It also have a number of humerous translation errors in game and gets various squad players and positions wrong (it has Andrew Powell as Tigers starting number 8 – and he never played first XV) but for all that it is good fun – with a few more patches it could be very good. I’ve been mainly playing as Tigers in friendly game against English opposition – but will be looking at beating a few SH teams soon. I bet McCrae is listed with NSW. |
I read a review of a PC rugby game in the paper the other weekend. I imagine that was it. Got quite a good review. From memory, it said they had sacrificed physical likeness - cartoonish heads, etc - for operating options. Of course, they might just have looked at J****'s likeness and wrongly assumed it was a cartoonist's creation. Check the menu options for the Bok players. Are there options for headbutt and spit?
quote:
Interesting pair – both have had good moments against England. The problem for Wendall is his only good moment came against England. |
Barring anything untoward, or misguided loyalty, Wendell has played his last game. There are others ahead of him. He had a very average S12 season. Rathbone got better and better as the season progressed. He has to be a big chance.
quote:
That’s not a sidestep – it a huge leap into surrealism! |
You're obviously unaware of the now ancient scientific claim that cooking in aluminium saucepans contributed to Alzheimers.
quote:
He is fast for a flanker. Very fast indeed. He could play wing at a push. If your wings and fullback disrespect him on that score then gawd help them. |
He'll be left standing scratching his head in clouds of our flankers' and wingers' dust wondering which way they went.
quote:
Dally could have been eyetie |
On behalf of my bretheren-in-spirit, I deeply resent the association.
quote:
There may be others I guess but I’ll not look it up as it is hardly important – all former colonials are English to us – forget this political independence fad.
In any case with 25 Englishmen good and true in a squad of 30 our percentage Englishness probably still beats the Wallabies percentage Aussieness. It sure as heck kicks ass out of the All Blacks Kiwiness. |
Been practising your stepping on the PC game, obviously. To no effect. Your diatribes against players crossing borders to further their rugby careers are etched in our memories.
quote:
The grammatically poor ‘ness’ is my suffix of choice today. |
Yes, you drove Tamerlin back to the library and the encyclopedia. Not a bad thing.
quote:
And no bet - two tests with the whole "20 Million Aussies versus 22 Poms" machine at work - you buggers will steal one game somehow. |
Mmmm. The PC rugby game obviously has a stepping tutorial. It - and you - need a patch. Fast.
Last edited by finbar on 20-05-2004 at 05:21
|
|
| |
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:35.
Apolyton Time is 00:35. |
top of page
|
| archivepost |
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
17-05-2004 03:55
|