31-08-2004 21:37									#331
	Got spare money?

That's why I prefer level 0, the reporting will be 100% accurate

	31-08-2004 21:39									#332
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Perhaps for future tournements, the first tracker thread could be a poll, where each player has to vote on the optional elements, and the save is issued once that is done?

	01-09-2004 08:30									#334
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Moonbars Perhaps for future tournements, the first tracker thread could be a poll, where each player has to vote on the optional elements, and the save is issued once that is done?

The finals will at least have options logged.

Getting the Coliseum B game started at all was like scheduling a day of dentist appointments- the level of organization I did was leaps and bounds beyond the first tournament and even then a compromise on what I would have liked.

	03-09-2004 06:02									#335
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Why wasn't Coliseum AA in the news item??????

If I have to put up with all the rules and arguements the least you can do is have me in the news item!

	03-09-2004 07:24									#336
	Inflate your Upload Space

Yes! Colliseum AA is totally news

Of course con, i guess one of the two of us would have to take out the other to have a good shot at making real news here.

So when can I expect the empty city built next to my capital?

	06-09-2004 13:21									#337
	Iron Civgroup Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

As those cool blue icons indicate, our civgroup is now set up. I'm not sure what more there is to be done with this. Everyone still in the main games has been signed up, along with those who expressed specific interest previously in this thread. Markos will be starting us off with a news item soon. Can someone tell me everything that 'minister' status entails?

I'm working on ideas for the final round and possibly a second tournament. I guess discussion should still be conducted in the PBEM forum...?

	06-09-2004 13:40									#338
	Re: Iron Civgroup Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Rommel2D I guess discussion should still be conducted in the PBEM forum...?

Nah, the PBEM forum is to noisy. New threads end up on the third page in less than a day unless someone keeps bumbing it all the time.

The strategy forum perhaps?

	06-09-2004 15:58									#339
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

With an announcement on the AU Forum too, since we've just had the first AU course dedicated to a PBEM format.

	06-09-2004 17:02									#340
	Re: Iron Civgroup Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Rommel2D I'm working on ideas for the final round and possibly a second tournament. I guess discussion should still be conducted in the PBEM forum...?

How about this:

We set up a 16 player tourney. Each game contains 2 players and 6 ai. All random, no whining. There is a tight time limit on the game. If you don't finish, both players are out.

That would create 3 rounds to get to the championship.

I would include a rule that you cannot form an alliance against the other human player with the AI. But, that's just because I'm still waking up nights screaming after Alex did it to me

	06-09-2004 17:09									#341
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

You have to get authorized for the Iron Civ Civ Group?

That seems strange.

Why didn't the coloseum-AA guys get automatically admitted????

	06-09-2004 18:05									#342
	Re: Re: Iron Civgroup Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by jshelr We set up a 16 player tourney. Each game contains 2 players and 6 ai. All random, no whining. There is a tight time limit on the game. If you don't finish, both players are out.

sounds good

quote: That would create 3 rounds to get to the championship.

how tight would the timeframe be?
what's the tiebreaker if it doesn't end? score is too manipulatable (early libraries and wide-spaced cities).

quote: I would include a rule that you cannot form an alliance against the other human player with the AI. But, that's just because I'm still waking up nights screaming after Alex did it to me

most greeks had the honour of that "move"

but with humans being allowed to attack AI cities (and the attackee can counterattack this time), alliances wouldn't be that important anymore. or maybe just 1 alliance at a time?

	06-09-2004 18:27									#343
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I would suggest that rather than introduce AI into the tournament (making it closer to the AU601 game than a typical PBEM game), we should expand the tournament to encompass as many of the Poly PBEM players as possible. We may be able to get say 8 games of 4 players going, which would then truly make this the genuine Poly PBEM championship. Perhaps the 8 winners plus 4 "wildcard" runners up could progress to round 2 (3 games), with the 3 winners plus 1 runner up fighting out the final - a total of 3 rounds.

As for game setup, anywhere from 3 to 5 players would work. More would be too slow.

We may even want to consider some additional ethical guidelines to limit the "3 on 1 dogpile" that seems to become so prevalent in 4 player games.

	06-09-2004 20:30									#344
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Considering:

quote: Originally posted by Aqualung71 We may even want to consider some additional ethical guidelines to limit the "3 on 1 dogpile" that seems to become so prevalent in 4 player games.

The occurance of that situation has a reason. An early SoZ calls for countermeasurements by the other players if they want to at least have some chance. It's not SP against AI and it's part of the strategy to decide if one should go for SoZ early in the game, taking the reaction into account. The nuclear weapons of the Ancient era...
I wouldn't be all to happy to be in a game where someone is to be lucky enough to have a ivory source close by and a SGL early game. That game is over if a 3 fold alliance is not allowed, and only decided by luck.

Bongo seems to be handling the situation pretty ok by the way, despite all his complaining.

	06-09-2004 22:41									#345
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by conmcb25 You have to get authorized for the Iron Civ Civ Group?

What do you mean by authorized? Does the self-subscribe function not work?

quote: Why didn't the coloseum-AA guys get automatically admitted????

Part of the hazing process for the AA pledges to get into the club is to admit themselves. Oh, and you must explain the minister function to me also...

	06-09-2004 22:44									#346
	Re: Re: Iron Civgroup Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by bongo Nah, the PBEM forum is to noisy. New threads end up on the third page in less than a day unless someone keeps bumbing it all the time. The strategy forum perhaps?

If noise is the problem perhaps we should use the Multiplayer forum. This is an MP variation after all...

	06-09-2004 22:53									#347
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Rommel2D What do you mean by authorized? Does the self-subscribe function not work? Part of the hazing process for the AA pledges to get into the club is to admit themselves. Oh, and you must explain the minister function to me also...

Well, part of its function is to ADMIT ICAA MEMBERS ...

	06-09-2004 22:53									#348
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Seriously though, it's set up that we "apply" to the civgroup but the Admin of the group (ie you) has to accept us.

	07-09-2004 01:12									#349
	Put an end to popups!

Rommel when the CivGroup was set up MarKG should have sent you a link to a webpage where you can go an authorize people. Thats the way it works for private forums for demo games.

I would question why it was set up that way in the first place unless you want to worry about authorizing people.

Is there a private forum for "iron civers?" I wouldn't think we would need one, and thats the only reason I can think of to have to authorize someone to join the civgroup.

	07-09-2004 01:58									#350
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by McMeadows ... Bongo seems to be handling the situation pretty ok by the way, despite all his complaining.

Note to self: Another issue to discuss in my AAR

	07-09-2004 06:13									#351
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by conmcb25 Rommel when the CivGroup was set up MarKG should have sent you a link to a webpage where you can go an authorize people. Thats the way it works for private forums for demo games. I would question why it was set up that way in the first place unless you want to worry about authorizing people. Is there a private forum for "iron civers?" I wouldn't think we would need one, and thats the only reason I can think of to have to authorize someone to join the civgroup.

if there is a private forum set up for us - it would answer the questions on where we discuss all the issues

	07-09-2004 06:17									#352
	Full PM-box? Change here!

ok, I just did a check around - and I could not find a private forum at this time

	07-09-2004 11:16									#353
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

No private forum, just a member list where con's pile of spam can be measured against everyone else's post count. (It also says something about him and Snoopy being yahoos? :-)

BTW- I don't have minister status, but can assign it. What does this do, give someone a pointy hat?

	07-09-2004 12:50									#354
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Can anyone join then? The other reason I can think of to have an authorize function for this list is to limit the group to those who actually are(or have been) a part of the ironciver tournament.

And rommel, look at Paddys postcount, he makes even con look like an amateur

	07-09-2004 20:52									#355
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Yep, the icon is only for those who have the right mettle.

Paddy's post count has more to do with the 42 active PBEMs he's in (although 2 player tracking threads border on spam). As was pointed out in another thread, if you filter out con's posts with the words 'lazy', 'suck', or 'pirate', he's still at chieftain level...

	07-09-2004 21:06									#356
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

back on the next tourney, i'm in favour of a 2-person game tourney as mentioned above in order to get away from the dogpile problem.

i have no problem with human diplomacy as an interesting game feature, but i also agree that games that eliminate human diplomacy are interesting in their own right. if you don't like the 2-person game idea, maybe you would prefer silent pbem to get around the human diplomacy impact.

	08-09-2004 01:34									#357
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

You can also lessen the risk of dogpiles by adding players. With only 4 players, any player with a strong wonder (pyramids and SoZ comes to mind) will be percieved as too strong by the other 3 and they will feel like they *have* to take hime out (OT ramble: I am the only one who feel the urge to shoot the TV when a survivor participant talks about 'his strategy' or who he considers to be a 'threat'?).

By increasing the number of players to 5 or 6, you make each of them relatively weaker to the others. Any dogpiles are likely to develop into one alliance fighting another, which is soo much better than the 3 vs 1 dogpiles. The weaker players can then afford to be more relaxed about it when one civ pulls ahead.

The downside is of course that games with 6 players are prone to be much slower

	08-09-2004 08:22									#358
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I prefer games as a whole with 3 or more players in them. 3 player can be quite interesting, if you get the right map.

But, 2 player games can be pretty cool, too, and move FAST, more than 2x as fast as 4 player games because you can easily have fast turn sessions. The problem with a tourney of them is precisely the AU problem: Some people have been done for weeks now, while people like me are in 800bc (only 1 fast turn session, and my partner and I only occasionally play at the precise same time, and we both work a lot at a non-civ work), and probably a long ways out of finishing (possibly even a few months). You'll have people who won games lose interest ... I'd consider anyhow a 2 player tourney "winner" to be something dramatically different from a 4 player tourney winner. I consider myself to be better at human diplomacy than AI manipulation and/or playing vs. AI, thus I (probably) do better against 3 opponents than vs. an AI group and one player. Conversely, some people may be the other way around, and own against AIs but not play well against humans.

How about semi-locked enimities? I know that cuts against the grain for some, but you could have, say, a 4 player game where each player is at war with 1 and only 1 other player *permanently* ... ie A vs B and C vs D, but A and C *or* D is acceptable alliance, and B with the other one (or not allied)? It allows some diplomatic play, doesn't require A and C or D to ally, and with good map placement would make for interesting play (ie 4 equidistant civs on a normal pangea, or 4 civs around a center huge lake a-c-b-d order around the wheel), but eliminates dogpile (A cannot ally with both C and D, not really -- you could make it against the rules, or just explain calmly to C and D that they can't both ally with A because then they'd be allies while at war ... Sorry, Con )

And thanks for the iron lightsaber. Now I can slice the head off of anyone who disagrees with my opinion on Battle Reports!!!

	08-09-2004 13:07									#359
	Tired of ads?

I don't think we should go into such a wide-open topic in the topped thread dedicated to the currently ongoing IC games. So...

	12-09-2004 11:12									#360
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Before going on to the subject of a new tournament, I'd like to nail down the settings for the final game of this one.

My proposal:

Tiny Pangea with 60% ocean
All victory conditions except wonder
Cultural conversions and Scientific Great Leaders on
Emperor level
Climate/Temperature/Age Random [or n/t/4 ?]
Roaming Barbarians
No culturally linked start
Y-Wrapping on
I will preview the map to make sure there are no island starts (and to get the Y-wrap to work right...). All seafaring tribes will be assured of a coastal start.

Aqualung can start thinking about what tribe to choose... (but don't give me any hints- the settings might change before we start and I don't want to be accused of any undue influence. )