22-04-2004 06:09									#1
	Monkey Moves - Volume 2 Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Link to Volume 1

	22-04-2004 06:33									#2
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I think 2 cats are fine.
I'd like a dozen more, but we also need mercs


If you guys are really worried about horsie island, then send the warriors over to make a sea wall.
I think they may be just playing with our minds to try and protect the island. Pulling our units from the main fight.

Warriors are good for wasting sword offensive turns. ie if our mercs get hurt, the warriors will appear as defenders. Forcing them to waste swords turns to kill them, saving our mercs lives.

It's your call. But if we decide on a sea wall, make sure every tile is protected. There is no use sending 4 warriors and leaving 1 tile unprotected.

Be wary of CoD mind games.
If our mercs defeat their swords, then they know its going to get real tuff. Or if we successfully retreat to horsie isalnd, then they know we cannot be removed from the game.

So they are now saying.. its not our fault, it was all Pythons idea....We had to go along.

Thats just cr@p. They are just setting themselves up as the good guy, in case it goes sour, so that we wont keep a game length grudge against them.

I am also worried about the other teams who we have contact. If any of them create an embassy, we need to consider our options. CoD & Python could be paying them for investigations. We may have to declare a fake war to stop the investigations. And even perhaps do it now, before they create an embassy.

Regs

	22-04-2004 08:31									#3
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quote: Originally posted by Hot_Enamel I think 2 cats are fine. I'd like a dozen more, but we also need mercs

Me too but ultimately I agree we need more Mercs as well

quote: Originally posted by Hot_Enamel If you guys are really worried about horsie island, then send the warriors over to make a sea wall. I think they may be just playing with our minds to try and protect the island. Pulling our units from the main fight. Warriors are good for wasting sword offensive turns. ie if our mercs get hurt, the warriors will appear as defenders. Forcing them to waste swords turns to kill them, saving our mercs lives. It's your call. But if we decide on a sea wall, make sure every tile is protected. There is no use sending 4 warriors and leaving 1 tile unprotected.

Oh I have thought about it, I would be happy just to protect the one city on horsie island, a couple of warriors and Ill be happy. That is our refuge for right now.

quote: Originally posted by Hot_Enamel Be wary of CoD mind games. If our mercs defeat their swords, then they know its going to get real tuff. Or if we successfully retreat to horsie isalnd, then they know we cannot be removed from the game. So they are now saying.. its not our fault, it was all Pythons idea....We had to go along. Thats just cr@p. They are just setting themselves up as the good guy, in case it goes sour, so that we wont keep a game length grudge against them.

OH I agree if a few hollow words is all they think they are going to use toi get me out of game long grudge mode they got another thing coming. They did it to save there arses plain and simple and are just as culpable as Monty as far as Im concerned.

quote: Originally posted by Hot_Enamel I am also worried about the other teams who we have contact. If any of them create an embassy, we need to consider our options. CoD & Python could be paying them for investigations. We may have to declare a fake war to stop the investigations. And even perhaps do it now, before they create an embassy.

Lets wait till we actually have that happen, the embassy that is. We are still in the early stages of "begging and I would hate to screw up a possible long term relationship becuase of this. Ya they could get one turn of spying but we got a looooooooooong way to go in this one yet

Regs [/QUOTE]

	26-04-2004 15:26									#4
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http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=21934_Monkey270bc.jpg

Hmmm.

Easy move this time I think.

Just put everything we got in the Holy Grill, and then blast away with catapults.

The NM on the galley, can get to the front quicker if it is dropped off in Macaque. So send the galley north this turn.

We have republic. I suggest we switch research off, and use whatever gold we need to keep the populace happy.


Trying to figure out what CoD & Python are going to do is interesting.

Pythons stack of 13 swordsmen has cut off CoD's 8 horsemen. So I dont think they are planning on attacking our fort.
(Our fort has 13 NM's with walls, so it should hold)

I think they will try to go around.
If they both stick to the hills, then we get another shot at Python with catapults.

However, if Python go directly south, then we need to discuss our options, because they can cut the city off. If this happens, we may have to disband the Fort, and move our mercs back along the road, and bomb them again.

That's all I got.
Easy turn this turn...next turn we will have to make some hard decisions.

PS... Any chance anyone has got off some emails to the other teams.
Begging for tech help ?
And/or a city gifting on the other continent ? etc etc

	26-04-2004 18:59									#5
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And just a thought.

I think we leave all our warriors in the fort.
(We discussed shipping them over to horsie island)

At least leave one, because if we have to abandon the city, I want the warrior to pillage the roads.

	26-04-2004 21:02									#6
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Hi folks. I will be playing the turn later today. I had a first look at it and concur with your plan H_E.

	26-04-2004 21:24									#7
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Jeez Louise, they still have 13 swordsman! Yeesh!

I concur with the above recommendations.

As long as I have two warriors or 1 NM on Horsie Island Im happy, the rest would be good for road pillagers.

	27-04-2004 05:37									#8
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quote: Originally posted by conmcb25 Jeez Louise, they still have 13 swordsman! Yeesh! I concur with the above recommendations. As long as I have two warriors or 1 NM on Horsie Island Im happy, the rest would be good for road pillagers.

This was my estimate from Volume 1

quote: Originally posted by Hot_Enamel All we have to worry about is rampaging horsemen covered by spearmen. And a total of 11 swords that Python still have.

I assumed the 2 swords that Python had by themselves attacked first and died. Perhaps they had them last in the attack order and they were not required.
That makes my guess of 11 + 2 =13 right on the money.

I dont think we will see any more swords. Just 13 remain on our continent.

My guess was pretty close

I hope they attack this turn and lose every sword.

	27-04-2004 06:45									#9
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270bc turn played

Pretty fair shooting. 8 cats fired, 5 hit. We hit an elite sword, a regular spear, and 3 regular swords.

btw - there are only 11 swords in that stack by my count. Along with 1 spear, 5 catapults, and the units which really do worry me - 3 workers. They will build a road this turn - which means any units in their city can also join the fray this turn. They probably will not attack this turn, as much as we would like them to. Their units can fort and heal where they are.

We now have 10 cats, 14 mercs, 1 archers and 3 warriors in the Holy Grill. Should be interesting. I have set the build to catapult, but a temple would be good to expand the cultural border.

I moved the merc in the hills out to the mountain. btw - a regular horse only has a 5% chance of defeating a regular merc fortified in the mountains. I suspect one will be enough to deter them from coming that way. Two would be great if we can spare another.

Zena landed on Monkey island. And it will produce another warrior in 3 turns - so con will be happy. What was Zena's friend's name in the show?

Cottage Joe landed at Chimp and moved from there. This was equally fast as landing at Macaque. He is now 4 of PC.

2 mercs and 2 catapults out next turn. 3 mercs the turn after.

Set research slider to 0%. We are at 145 gold and +32 gpt. We could research poly in 4 at -10gpt, which would mean 168 gold for poly. I suspect we can probably buy it for around 60 or 80 gold on the open market. Or - I think I will take offers for a package deal - Poly and Construction - lowest bid. Bet you we get them cheap.

Yes - I think it is time for Monkey to hit the public forum big time. I have SPAM, the Great Simian Crusade, and a tech auction all set to go.

I still say they have to have a more elegant plan than what we seeing. Unless they - Python - have a pile of units stashed in Siegeperilous. And surely CoD is going to come to the show with more than what we have seen. I think we will see a major CoD amphibious effort soon.

Anyways - time will tell. Kiwi anyone?

	27-04-2004 08:04									#10
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I dont think they will attack.
They have cut off COD's atack route, and they will want to hit us with everything on the same turn.

And if they want to fort and heal on that tile, then they had better be good at ducking catapults.

I think they will go around.

	29-04-2004 21:14									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Hot_Enamel I think they will go around.

Then why bring the workers? In case we cut roads to the south?

	30-04-2004 03:52									#12
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Yep... To rebuild the roads we cut.

If they were going to attack, they should of moved SW.
That would of allowed CoD to attack with horses on the same turn.

But who knows... maybe they just screwed up.

	30-04-2004 04:10									#13
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Well if they dont attack then we just keep flinging poo at em

Eventually maybe they will be so full of $hit, they will go away

Seriously we still have two cities in CAT production, correct?

	02-05-2004 08:10									#14
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Save is here.

And - CoD offered a peace treaty!!!!

I wonder if they are serious.

In the meantime - Python have finsihed thier road as expected, and a stack of 11 swords, 4 spears, and 8 catapults hav move to 3 of The Holy Grill. We can blast them again - and now there is no healing as they are in ou territory.

And we lost a galley to CoD, with either no losses to them - or we killed one of theirs first. It is not clear.

So - what do we make of this peace offereing from CoD. I will send a message off right away to find out.

	02-05-2004 10:47									#15
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I doubt they are serious about peace.

You offer peace, to check what resources & tech the other team is offering. Then you cancel the offer. Some teams forget to cancel peace.

Do not accept it. They might be feeling some early WW, and I dont want them to have peace.

Those CoD galleys are empty, I am 95% sure.
They will be trying to suss out if we are retreating to horsie island or not. And will be setting up a screen.

I think we have to disband the fort, retreat one tile and blast the 11 swords with cats.

. Sell Walls
. Disband Fort
. Move cats & Fortify mercs 1 tile south on the road
. Use the cats to bomb the swords.
. Use 1 warrior to pillage the road under the fort.

I need another look at the save later when the kids are in bed and not annoying me.

	02-05-2004 11:56									#16
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i cant help much this turn

im wiped out from the mega chat in the ISDG with you know who

And I got kids to mess with tomorrow, the wife is gone this weekend.

	02-05-2004 18:07									#17
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I relooked at the save....

I still think our fort should be abandoned.

	03-05-2004 01:26									#18
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I'm not convinced about abandoning the fort. To start with - they do not know how many mercs we have. Moving to open ground will gem them a good idea.

Also - abandoning the Holy Grill will put their stack back in clear territory for healing.

I say we bomb them now. And move two mercs back to Orangutan. I have run a number of simulations on this. Their 11 swords would have an 11 or 12% chance at victory against 6 mercs in Orangutan. It goes down to 1-2% when there are seven. To get seven - we only need to pull two mercs out of the Grill. With 12 mercs left in the Grill, there is little chance of them succeeding in taking it. And we have split their offensive force nicely - and the biggest part of it will not be able to heal.

Once the Grill goes - the CoD horsemen can run west across the top and we will be really exposed - and forced into defending three cities.

I say we make it really messy for Python. And I say we should make a stand in the Grill.

	03-05-2004 01:38									#19
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Oh man

This is a big decision isn't it?

I dunno Beta the last time we split forces it wasn't good.

Lemme look at the save right quick.

	03-05-2004 01:46									#20
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Ok - if we move one more merc into the Grill - for a total of 15 - and even without walls, and with 20 swords attacking, and all at HP of 4, there is zero % chance of the attack succeeding.

To start with - they will be wounded by our cats. And secondly - I don't think they have 20 swords. But they may have more units in SiegeP.

	03-05-2004 03:41									#21
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Beta, I am sure the Grill will hold.

My concern is, that they move their stack of Swords onto the road.
Cutting our forces in half. Our retreat will be cut off.

The Grill will hold, but what about the rest of our empire against 11 swords ?
If we lose 1 core city, we are done for.

	03-05-2004 03:59									#22
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Other thoughts....

By fortifying everything on the road, they will also get to see exactly how many mercs we have. This will scare the absolute crap out of them, and may even jolt them into realising, there is a far better, softer target available to them.

What is our military strength to each of them ?

Have we made any effort in contacting the other civs for tech ? alliance ? a backup plan of a city gifted to us if we get wiped out ?
I am willing to contact a couple if you guys are too busy.

Regs

	03-05-2004 04:09									#23
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I am too busy right now.

I could work on a draft maybe tomorrow.

Im just got too much going on at the C3C ISDG right now as you now.

Id rather rely on the interior lines and fall back to the core. Beta is worried about horsies crossing west.

I dunno, the last time we split forces didn't work to well and having those cats (all of em) in the Grill with one escape route home makes me nervous.

But if you change your mind H_E, Ill go along with it.

	03-05-2004 04:53									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Hot_Enamel Other thoughts.... By fortifying everything on the road, they will also get to see exactly how many mercs we have. This will scare the absolute crap out of them, and may even jolt them into realising, there is a far better, softer target available to them. What is our military strength to each of them ? Have we made any effort in contacting the other civs for tech ? alliance ? a backup plan of a city gifted to us if we get wiped out ? I am willing to contact a couple if you guys are too busy. Regs

Nope - I will get on this. And I appreciate that having 15 fortified mercs will look impressive. I would still rather we kill a stack of their units.

	03-05-2004 04:54									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Hot_Enamel Beta, I am sure the Grill will hold. My concern is, that they move their stack of Swords onto the road. Cutting our forces in half. Our retreat will be cut off. The Grill will hold, but what about the rest of our empire against 11 swords ? If we lose 1 core city, we are done for.

But that is my point. That stack won't last long. It will not be able to take Orangutan - Ok - it has a bout a 5% chance od success. But that is a risk I am willing to take to see it destroyed, and hold the Grill.

	03-05-2004 06:08									#26
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If they were going to attack the grill, the would of attacked last turn. And they would of moved their forces differently to allow CoD to attack the same turn.

They are definately going around.

I dont think having a stack of 11 swords marching through our territory is a good idea, while the bulk of our forces are "cut off" and holed up in a fort.

They must have a bigger and bolder plan.
I am worried about a fleet of CoD horsemen being sent by galley. CoD have hardly committed anything to this war. Is Python really that stupid to do all the fighting themselves ??

Mobility = Good
Splitting our forces and having our road network destroyed = Bad

I think our best bet is to retreat back to the core, and hold there.

	03-05-2004 07:16									#27
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I agree that we are still waiting for the other shoe to fall. And I think as well that it wil come in the form of an amphibious assault.

I am still not convinced about pulling out. The swords are history if they move past without attacking. Half or more than half will be down to 3 HP's. And we get a chance to hit them again next turn.

I say we stick with the Grill - and chew up anyone who gets past.

That being said - we do need to think about teh scenario where next turn - if Python moves to the road - and 4 gallleys show up on our coast loaded with horses. My plan has 14 mercs in the Grill and 7 in Orangutan. That does not leave a lot for a counter-move against a landing.

Hmmm. I guess I have not been able to convice you, have I H_E??

	03-05-2004 07:29									#28
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Im not entirely convince either Beta.

Its time for a core showdown.
And when it happens I want every unit we have in the core.

We haveinterior lines there and can move from city to city until of course they get in and start to pilliage.

Amphib landing is a possibility to.

I saw two healthy enemy ships off our western shore. So what sunk that galley?

If we had the resources sure hold out, but we dont.

Two attack units dont really do it for you. Unfortunately

	03-05-2004 07:33									#29
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OK - I'm outvoted. We retreat.

But it hurts....

	03-05-2004 07:54									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Beta OK - I'm outvoted. We retreat. But it hurts....

I know, but we still love you sweetie

Hey totally off subject but I want you and H-E to see this and put it in the back of your minds.

If we ever do a C3C Intra Team Demo Game at poly, I want to have an "old farts" team.

You have to be over 30 to get in.

We could role play ailments, and memory loss, lack of a love life, how much we cant stand the wives, how much the kids drive us nuts, how youth is wasted on the wrong people, the possibilities are endless.

Ive been thinking about this for a while, keep that in the back of your minds