31-05-2004 03:21									#151
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Awesome turnset, Monk! Great job on rushing camels for wonders in particular...

	31-05-2004 03:43									#152
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Thank you very much, -JR. I am a firm believer in putting available cash to work.

There was a bit more this time because I favored taxes with the sliders. I also wanted to have enough to bribe AI units trying to retake Satsuma. My only regret is that it has delayed getting Navagation; but, I believe that is not so bad considering the dire consequence of Industry this game.

Once Magellan is built it will be dips and crooks flooding the world.

Monk

	31-05-2004 18:21									#153
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The last two turnsets have done an astonishing job in expanding the sioux universe - great job, guys!

With Magellans in only a few turns, we may be able to take out the Vikes before they get bridge building, which may be important. Are we going for Invention and Leo's?

The Egyptians have Medicine, in case anybody wants to build Shake's.

Placing cities for ease of transportation is by far the fastest conquest plan, so putting the next city on that hill which would make the canal to the Vikings willl be much to our benefit.

	31-05-2004 19:55									#154
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Looks like the world will be conquered in time
Nice work!

	01-06-2004 10:46									#155
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600 AD, 28 cities sizes 2-6 and a 7.
28 techs, currently almost three quarters of the way to navigation; well ahead of all AIs, who are at 19, 17, 16, 13….
30%-70%-0% -- 896 beakers per tech, 114 beakers per turn, so 8 turns per tech
44 gold per turn, 53 in the bank; 162 shields per turn; 3.15M population
War with Japanese, Vikings, and Greeks. Supreme and dishonorable.
9 settlers, 13 triremes, 2 dips, 70 military units with 16 crusaders in progress, 7 caravans with 6 in progress
We have Pyramids, HG, Michelangelo, Colossus, Copernicus, STWA, KRC, and MPE; Great Wall will build at the touch of a key. The Lighthouse in Uppsala is a target, but if we get invention then our triremes will become caravels, and then Lighthouse will become much less valuable.
Our units are widely scattered, aside from the concentration near the Vikes and Japanese. Several units that I can’t figure out why they are where they are. I’ll pull the empty triremes back home to load up, and send wandering military units into cities for martial law. Also, I think I’ll put some more cities to building settlers and triremes.
Very little between-turns tweaking to do. Once again, Bloody Monk has left me an empire purring like a kitten.

620 – build Great Wall

640 – Vikes build GL (Japanese switch to Oracle, Egyptians to Shakespeare)
- build MonksOtherCanal at 130,72

660 – Vikes kill diplomat
- navigation (given banking, bridges, physics, theology, and university, we choose physics)
- build Per Monk’s Plan at 149,13
- village at 113,61 yields eight barbs – bye bye, diplomat
- kill Vike catapult

680 – the eight barbs all ignore our diplomat! they all get away!
- kill Greek phalanx
- kill Viking settler and catapult
- kill Japanese settler

700 – Japanese kill elephant
- silk, demanded, First Wind-Trondheim, 210g
- beads, KillDeer-Trondheim, 66g
- kill Viking phalanx
- kill Japanese chariot
- build DeadBuff Island

720 – build Magellan’s Voyage
- build Canal to Japan
- build Brest
- kill Greek phalanx

740 – Greeks kill crusader
- build First Wind Isle
- build Cherbourg
- village at 111,67 yields 8 more barbs! bribe one, that kills two – now will they ignore us again?
- kill Japanese warrior

760 – barbs kill dip and horseman
- Japanese chariot dies attacking
- physics (given banking, bridges, invention, medicine, theology, and university, we choose to study invention)
- disorder in Kyoto (I hate when I’ve checked to make sure there’s no impending disorder on city growth, but the shuffling causes disorder)
- kill Japanese chariot

780 – Japanese kill elephant and legion
- disorder in Raging Brook (damned shuffle again!)
- build SouthYellowtree

800 – Vikings learn bridgebuilding!
- build SilverMoon Isle

This wasn’t an entirely satisfying turnset for me. Everything is so far away! We’re spread out much too far. We could move a lot faster if we’d gotten Lighthouse. Fortunately, invention is no more than about six turns away, and we can have camels enough by then to build Leo’s immediately.

No real aggression. I built nine cities, learned navigation and physics, built roads, explored a lot (mostly ocean), and finally killed off the barb hordes I’d released, so that we can finally build another city northwest of the Vikings (our settler spent quite a few turns fleeing the barbs). But we had no substantial concentration of force in any one place, and I did little to improve that – we killed a lot more Viking and Japanese units than we lost, but it wasn’t very productive. I felt that we weren’t ready for active war yet, so I tried to lay the groundwork by building new cities that can now crank out units.

I suspect that many of you would have pursued a more immediately aggressive course. I think perhaps I overestimate the resistance that the AI will put up. I’m glad to be playing this game, because I think war is one of the weaker parts of my game. Feedback would be very welcome.

Grigor is sprung; Trajanus, -Jrabbit, the Bloody One, and debeest are in the queue. However, RL (good parts of it) will probably prevent me from playing any more for quite a long time. You'll finish this game without me. Have fun. But note that the Vikes have discovered bridgebuilding! Don't dally!

Attachment: sa_a800.sav
This has been downloaded 3 time(s).

	01-06-2004 18:56									#156
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Excellent, debeest. The Sioux Empire needed some infrastructure, and you've provided that. If we're going for Leo's, there's no need for the LH.

I've never seen a dip ignored by a full-boat round of 8 barbs. Very strange.

Your hut-luck was unfortunate. Nice to see you were able to clean up after...

	01-06-2004 20:56									#157
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I have RL concerns that require I keep this brief. There is much to say. For now, just this one caution to all.

The only way we can lose this game is if Industrialization is researched. Please think about that when making choices for the next research. Picking something on the path to Indu does not seem very prudent. Tipping huts, before Invention, is not very prudent. Barbs were a better outcome than getting a tech in this turnset. There are too few techs left as it is.

As soon as Invention is achieved we should set and keep Science slider at zero. We should sell the library we have. We should consider burning Slim Buttes to the ground a settler at a time to end the efffect of Cope's.

Monk (the Luddite)

	01-06-2004 21:07									#158
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Bloody Monk, you raise valid concerns. That's why I kept taxes at maximum and delivered only the two caravans that were already far out at sea. Hopefully our low science rate is also delaying the AI. I hadn't considered the hut-tipping tech "risk," but I don't think it would have kept me from opening them. Remember, it is always possible for us to set science to zero and deliver no caravans, and our science rate can be held completely in check. We have a lot of techs left before industrialization would be our only option, and I think it's useful to keep our tech lead until it's really time to stop. I'm more concerned about the AI, and the Vikings' recent discovery of bridge-building.

	02-06-2004 09:14									#159
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debeest,

I probably overstated the threat, it's true. But, hopefully, folk will at least think about it now. There are several points related to your turns...

1) I think you did marvelously with the other choices you made. The ending save shows a solid concentration on the military side. Just what we need. I would recommend a few dips be added to the mix--to bribe and take down walls.

2)Building strategically located cities is excellent.

3) We are indeed playing a bit behind the curve, but the backbone to support total war is just about in place; and the, IMHO, premature start of conflict will not be a problem much longer. The flood of vet Crooks will rock the world!!

4) So far we have avoided the need for temples for happiness control. I would only irrigate in the smaller, no-food cities so they can get a bit bigger. Cheops is an example, and it could use a mine as well. We will want our cities to build killers rather than temples, as much as possible.

5) One way to deal with happiness is to get Banking, Demo/SOL, and go Fundy. That is the direction I would suggest for research after Invention. Even set on zero we might as well have a plan for new scrolls.

6) A final reminder to all. Restarts are on, if I am remembering rightly. As we begin to smash the AI, let's remember to make zoo parks of each last city so we don't have to search high and low for the restarts. That would be a chore.

We are in a good place. What comes next should be fun!! Who wants next??

Monk

	02-06-2004 20:23									#161
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Free the Bunnyman!!



Monk

	03-06-2004 14:32									#162
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I am not able to play for a few days. I hope somebody can jump in.

	04-06-2004 01:15									#163
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I'm starting my exam period right now, I'm not sure I'll be able to pay too much attention to the game as I'm paying dearly for all that laziness throughout the year; Have a lot of stuff to bash into my brain

Unless nobody is taking the next turn I can start it, but it'll take a long time before I finish it

	04-06-2004 20:28									#164
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Perhaps now is a good time for Old n Slow to take a turn...

Monk

	09-06-2004 06:43									#165
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I have the conch - playing now.

	09-06-2004 08:56									#166
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We have romped to 1000AD. Highlights: Leo's, Oracle, Lighthouse, Great Library (not a blessing); only 2 techs learned (invention, bridge building captured), many cities built, many crooks built. There is a force near the greeks and another near the Japanese. The Viking expedition needs healing and espansion/consolidation. A small task force is heading for the Egyptians (who have Banking), but I neglected a diplomat to bribe all those barbs.


Log to follow.

And the Save:

Attachment: sa_a1000.sav.zip
This has been downloaded 4 time(s).

	09-06-2004 09:06									#167
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800 Look around. We have 37 Cities in Monarchy, though we know Republic. Vikes have Bridge Building; Egypt has medicine and is researching Banking. Invention and Leos are on the Industrialization path but very to the point with all our triremes and warriors. Next should be Demo, SoL, and soft Fundy. That means only 16 caravans in the Home Island - the rest all caravels, settlers, and crooks.

Cherbourg could build a copper caravan for Slim Buttes.

Two war fronts, Greeks and Vikings. Vikes are the priority. Let's plan 8 crooks and 3 dips. That needs 4 caravels or 6 triremes. 5 Crooks are near the theatre; 2 more on the way from home island; another 3 in Japan, so that's set. One dip in the theatre; need 2 more.

Greeks have a passel of crooks abuilding on our near east side. Expansion is still in order, regardless of our happiness problems.

Press ENTER

820 Boston builds Oracle - an excellent new opportunity for us.
-Captainless eastern trireme continues bootless exploration.

840* Japanese: accept cease-fire (to be broken soon )
Cherbourg - Copper Caravan for Slim Buttes
Bunny Luck - Settlers
Wiltcat valley - Settlers
Dead Buffalo - Settlers
Stony Lake - Caravan (now have 7 for Leo's)
Viking Lookout founded
Barbarian Rome (size 5 ) found by leaderless trireme!

860 Disorder in Chiefs Crag. More war prep.

880 Viking emmissary: we continue the War.
Yellowtree: Settlers
Cherbourg Copper to Slim Buttes (d, 54)
Attack of Uppsala begins.

900 Uppsala captured (Lighthouse, Great Library) Japanese break cease-fire
Sparta captured.
920 *Invention=>Banking. Science set to 70/10/20. Caravans delivered for LW.

Aarhus and Lindholm captured.

940 Egyptians develop Banking.
Slim Buttes builds Leonardo's. Massive Upgrades (to non-vet units)
hut: 50g (it's OK to pop huts now
hut: adv tribe: Grigor Hideout

960 general consolidation. Transported some crooks towards the Greeks. Vike Capital moved to Hladir

980 Hut: NONE Legion
Trondheim size 10 captired (82g and a Granary)
Boston Captured (Oracle)

1000* hut: 50g
Kaupang size 9 captured (62g and granary). Temple rushed in Trondheim (with Oracle it should be a cash cow - make some trade routes with nearby cities - no initial payoff but some nice ongoing cash)

OK, leave it for my successor.

There are a lot of Viking cities we have not found.

Check carefully for sleeping units, not all of which are healing

	09-06-2004 09:55									#168
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Way to go, Grigor!! Looks like you had your fun.

Of our group of five, Trajanus is now free to play (-JR will be freed next). We could have others step in here...Elephant, Old n Slow, anyone...anyone??

Monk

	09-06-2004 10:33									#169
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Some thoughts...

1) Renaissance Penalty
Grigor was over the 54g Copper delivery payoff. A size 2 city will never give a blowout payoff, but after Navigation and again after Invention, payouts are lowered. Deliveries to our own cities will not be a boon for us any longer. And we should be reluctant to push the beaker count anyway.

2) Rehome Units
Because there has been a lot of new cities captured, we now have the opportunity to rehome some of the attackers to the new cities, making it easier for the older cities to keep producing.

3) Temples
Now that we have the Oracle (which doubles the Temple effect) selected cities should now get Temples, a few cities at a time. This will let our cities grow a bit.

The game is going nicely!!

Monk

	09-06-2004 18:15									#170
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Thanks Monk

Renaissance Penalty - we had Navigation and I was trying to get Invention ASAP. It seems that we have a not-so-super Science city - perhaps a Corner Grocery Science City...

Rehoming - I already started doing that haphazardly, so thanks for the elevation of that event to policy.

Oracle - as long as we don't accidently research Theology our happiness should be only a temple away. And of course if we ever get to Fundy, tithes will aid the cause

Exploration - on reflection, I could have done a better job of mapping our enemies. That should be a priority this turn. Had I realized it, I might have built my very first explorer

	09-06-2004 19:15									#171
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Grigor,

Now that we have Invention, we really don't want a SUPER Science City. Getting Bank, Democracy, and then SoL will be nice but not essential. Scientific progress is no longer in our best interest.

Monk

	09-06-2004 22:02									#172
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Very nice, Grigor.

FYI, I'm undergoing a computer transplant right now. there are OS issues yet to be resolved, so I am currently Civless.

Hope to have resolution soon, with a much more robust machine,
complete with flat screen theater monitor.

(Yeah, that was a deliberate pun... )

	11-06-2004 22:00									#173
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I've been chomping on the sidelines, busy with RL, etc. I'll have family activity for the next week, then about a week or two's respite, then another week away.

By mid-July I'll have no more excuses.

New computer? Maybe I should do that BEFORE bad things happen.

	14-06-2004 05:29									#174
	Remove this text

Suppressing Trade in order to suppress research is so galling to me I don't think I could STAND this game...

(just kidding, guys - I'm too slow once the number of cities multiply; I'll just kibbitz from the sidelines...)

	14-06-2004 05:45									#175
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You will be missed. But, unless someone plays (no matter how long it might take them) there will not be much to kibbitz.

Monk

	14-06-2004 20:09									#176
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maybe i'll have a go in a few days..

	14-06-2004 21:08									#177
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quote: Originally posted by Trajanus maybe i'll have a go in a few days..

Excellent!! Seeing as you kicked off the invasion, you ought to have a round of "Search and Destroy." Hope your finals went well.

Monk

	25-06-2004 10:36									#178
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tick tock, tick tock, sprong!!

Please, before my biological clock breaks....

Monk

	26-06-2004 00:37									#179
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They've only ended just now... they seemed to last endlessly
So what's going to happen when that clock breaks

	26-06-2004 01:33									#180
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quote: Originally posted by Trajanus They've only ended just now... they seemed to last endlessly So what's going to happen when that clock breaks

Then I will take a longish dirt nap, always and forever to wonder, just how this game was won.

Monk